Feeling compassion to fat peeps? esp parental...

This is the thread I wanted to start in light of Heather's thoughts on her dad's intolerance (for lack of better word) for her battling her food compulsion.

It is a big subject - not pretty or delicate and I hope I do not offend as i am trying to speak from my heart on this.

I can speak from my own experience and those who have been here a whle we have talked on this before. My dad was one reason my self image got fragile at a very young age. Being a Big Kid, and compared to my very tiny next sis in line who was underweight, then my bro who was 6 years younger, he often would tell me things like:  you are going to crush those kids, you big cow, etc.

As a kid, i was always taller and heavier than most. An early memory stems from when public weigh ins happend in gym class:  I was 104 pounds in 4th grade - far and away the heaviest girl with one exception a SMO girl named Monetta.

My recall of myself was this beast and thank God I rarely saw pics of myself. But when I did see pics of myslef as a kid when I was 20 something, I was not fat - just taller by a head than most kids - all my cousins, sibs, etc and not skinny by any means. Just like I am now, just a stocky built person.

Now that I am a parent i find myself judging my obese younger DD who, by personality is simply not like me in most ways that I find important: 

I am energetic, she is slug-like.
I am industrious always have a job or two - her not so much yet whiny about how hard her life is.

I am rarely seen not washed up/spiffy; she is one of the biggest slobs I know in her personal grooming.
I am (fairly) disciplined about eating good food most of my day; she is a poptart little debbie eating coke drinking fool.

She is like me in that she is outspoken, so this is bad when my dander gets up at her ways. Like I 'splained to heather, I DO call in chips with her when I help her (cuz she always seems to *need* me) - and figgure somehow I own her and can now flap my jaw.

Anyone reading this, inclduing me, can clearly see that I play a big part in creating this situation! For starters, I should know more than anyone how that feels to not measure up b/c i am bigger. The other thing is that I know first hand what it means to be out of control with food. She somehow represents something in myself that I hate.

Luckily, the relationship that we have has traveled great strides - cuz we have both grown:  her with a job/child/now who is a fantastic mother/trying to go back to school, etc. and ME who has learned to shut my damn mouth more often.

I need to publicly admit that her body/the way it looks, her lack of self control still DOES disturb me on a deep level and I know that that is not her problem - it's mine, for wanting her to have it all and she, like me is, a mere mortal, not a god.

One way we both got to this better place was to still talk about the hard things, but now with love. So, my parting advice for this post for kids like Heather and parents like many of us:  keep it real, keep it loving.  Set boundaries for those who may offend you in this area, and if a boundary has been set for you to STFU, honor that.

what do you guys think?  Talk about a psychic vomit session right there i laid down.

Good post Neecee! There is alot of truth in that. I have a daughter of my own who is 5,(only girl out of 3kids)  and I am always worried about what our relationship is going to turn out to be. I think eating habits can be learned and I want the best for my kids. That is why I have decided to change my relationship with food. I am just going to be supportive and love them no matter what life brings them and the decisions they will make. As long as they are happy and healthy.

Well I have no children, so of course I am an expert. (lol)  Actually I freely admit I have no clue how difficult it is to be a parent, and the only thing I know is that raising a child must be VERY difficult, sacrificial, trying, a lot of hard work. My only frame of reference is as the daughter getting targeted for being TOO FAT. 

While my sister and I were both overweight growing up (and looking back on photos, by no means excessively, we were just slightly overweight and just a few pounds from normal weight), I was always slightly thinner than my sister (the opposite happened when we grew up! lol I got huge and she got smaller) but my mom was constantly ON MY ASS about my weight. She was relentless, and I can remember many times, downright cruel, even humiliating me in front of others. I think its because I looked so much like her (my sister looks more like my dad) and my mom had HORRIBLE experiences as an overweight child (in her words, "the fattest kid in the whole town") ... memories that still taunt and anger her almost 70 years later! So I think in her own twisted way, she wanted to spare me from that torment. But ironically, most of the torment I experienced as a child because of my weight was from my own mother! And, myself, because her hatred of my weight became my hatred of my weight and my body.

I think it actually caused me to gain even more, because she made it such a huge issue and would make such cruel comments. I went from being 10 lbs. overweight to 15 lbs. to 25 and up and up until I was about 80 lbs. overweight by the time I graduated high school.  I remember her saying "you're growing by leaps and bounds" and "you're ballooning" constantly. She was a real *****! The more she put me down the more I ate to make myself feel better I guess, or maybe to defy her (probably both) a crappy habit I am still trying to beat into the ground 20 years and 200 lbs. later.

It's a thing that has ruined our relationship forever. Even though she has calmed down considerably since those days, she still mentions my weight and gives me ideas on how to lose weight, and offers to help me lose weight in various ways. I know she is trying to be nice and supportive, but it totally irritates me because it catapults me back to how she made me feel when I was a kid. I don't know ... I know she doesn't have much longer to be on this earth because of her age but its so hard to get past all that and just love her. Part of me feels bad but part of me feels like "that's what you get, now you lose out on having me in your life."

My dad was always the supportive one. He never said a single negative comment to me about my weight. One time I was venting to my parents about my weight struggle,and he told me that he would love me the same no matter how much I weighed. It MEANS THE WORLD to have a parent tell you that when you already feel down about yourself. Especially because I knew where my mom stood on the matter .. when my dad said that, she was totally silent because she didn't agree. I'm sure if I was bedbound because I was so huge she would be even more abusive to me because she would be disgusted by my appearance. It wouldnt be about concern for health ... it would be about the shallowness of appearance. Her love for me and her acceptance and pride of me was tied to how I appeared, which is SAD. If anyone should love you no matter what, its your PARENTS!!

I think that you should definitely consider the future, for your relationship with your daughter, and your daughter's future, her self esteem. A few careless remarks you make about her weight today could be words she will never forget for the rest of her life. They are words that can really make the situation worse and make her gain EVEN MORE weight. Maybe your daughter feels like she can never please you, so why try? Maybe she feels like even if she gets up and gets dressed and made up you will still make negative comments? Maybe she feels like it will never be good enough anyway, so why bother? I know I have felt that way many times. Its hard being overweight, especially in school, and if you come home and get picked on there too, there's no soft place to land, its even more difficult. I think you should really work on just loving your daughter as she is, I mean as long as she is showering and brushing her teeth and hair and wearing clean clothes, I would call it a WIN. Maybe you should be more complimentary of her appearance, work to make NO negative comments AT ALL!! NONE!! Work on just loving your daughter's appearance just as she is. I can imagine that will be really difficult. I would not want an overweight daughter either, because I know how horrible it is to be overweight.

You know when my dad passed away last year, and I finally had mustered the courage to go up and say a few words at the funeral, I hadn't written anything down, I just spoke from my heart what was the absolute truth about who my dad was ... HE WAS ALWAYS KIND AND LOVING TO ME. Every day of my life!! Only afterwards did I realize, wow, what a beautiful thing to say about a person. That he was ALWAYS loving and kind. Thats my goal for myself, to be the kind of mom where my kids can say that about me at my funeral.

yup, yup...I now do watch my words very carefully with her! We see each other lots, call each other many times a day. For this I am so thankful! We are very much in love, really these days.

I am so appreciative that she and i found our way! My other DD is also not small, never would be with the genetic codes we have. It's almost incidental that my other DD is fat, my main concerns for her are more about how she had just checked out of her life. I think if she were thin and had all the issues I disliked about her, we would have been in the same square here.

I hurt over how I have felt about her... and still can feel about her. As I say, my own growth and maturing has helped me realize how much she wants, no needs, me to love her, respect her and accept her. One thing you will learn if ever you are the mom figure or the mom in a child's life is how you are still human and mistakes come with that. We do the best we can!

In return, how she responds to me is to rise up - she has changed so much since becoming a mother herself. She has long surpassed the most basic expectations I held for her: she is trying to be more engaged in her life and find her sea legs!

Her life, predictably is rough - married to a jerk. She had a period of severe drug use that nearly did rip our family apart forever.  Sadly funny how our lives can cause patterns to repeat. I own some of her beahvior, I know, but I will not baby her or any adult who is free to choose a better life. I will stand by her and just be with her in very hard times, really I have learned to shut up and just be with her.

I can say that I never have talked her down in public, never called her names, just a pile of frustrating little vignettes of our family:  her sis, her, her dad, me all out for a walk and she is being difficult trudging along, being super slow and very crabby - usually it was a fight even getting her out the door. The rest of us loved hiking...not her!

She, too would sneak food...hmmm wonder who taught her that??? I am so aware as part of my recovery how much she represents something black inside of me.  There was a very famous book years ago :  "My Mother, Myself" that really helped me. The title itself says it all, really!

I am so grateful that our relationship is not ruined!

Thank goodness you had your dad, despite having to deal with your mom's negativity!! My mom was emotionally abusive about my weight also. She would force me on diets, and even force me to do Richard Simmons Sweatin to the Oldies vidios after school while my brother and sister watched and made fun of me. If she would have asked nice, and made it into a time for just me and her, I probably would have loved it. But instead I really HATE to excersise, it always flashes back as a kid. I think, at least subconciously, I gained so much weight to rebel against her. Which is totally stupid, it's my body afterall. But as a pre-teen and teen, I guess I wasn't that rational. Dad didn't say or do anything back then, he really doesnt say or do anything about my weight now, but his actions, expressions, his eyes, they show his disapproval and always have. Mom and I get along now, simply by 'ignoring' the past. If we don't talk about it, it didn't happen. Which is a pile of bs, but what else can I do? I love my relationship with my mom now, and wouldn't trade it for anything. I am trying my hardest not to raise my daughter the same way. I make sure she knows how special she is to me and that I'll love her no matter what.

I can see what Neecee's saying about her daughter, and I guess if you look at it from that point of view, it makes since. Or at least I can begin to understand. It makes me wonder if my mom or dad, or both feel like that about me. In my defense, I will say that I always shower and comb my hair and dress when going in public or letting anyone, even family,  come over. I have times where my depression flares up real bad, and I sink into a pit. It can be hard to crawl out of that dark pit long enough to take care of my daughter and go to school. When I'm feeling like that, things like house keeping are left behind. When It's really bad, and I can't even make myself get dressed in the morning, I stay home and don't do anything. My car is like an extension of my house, and it gets messy, and is less likly to be cleaned, cuz no one but me sees it. 

"keep it real, keep it loving. "

Good post Necee.  I like your saying "keep it real, keep it loving".  Afterall isn't that what parents are suppose to do?  When I grew up my mom ignored my bad eating habits.  Didn't talk to me about nutrition, just put the food in front of me on what was suppose to be eaten.  My dad was always the strict one, VERY strict household.  I obeyed, keeping my mouth SHUT, walked around on ice most of the time, watching my every move to make sure I behaved.  I was told more than once that I didn't need to go to college, it was a waste of my time, that I would fail at anything I wanted to do.

Growing up like this I put my world into my kids.   But my guilt, bad habits, etc., has let my kids see me eat badly over the years.  I look at my two teenagers and I'm so ashamed at how they portion their food (they don't).  One serving of pasta is the whole family size fettucine dish at Pizza Hut for my daughter, my sons the same way.  Although I have never been that bad portion wise while they grew up, I can only think that between my habits what I taught them, and society now in general on large portions, they are doomed for failure.  I have tried so many times.  But it's useless, they don't want to hear it, it's too late.  But I do still keep it real and in a loving way.  My daughter and I have always had the utmost trust and honesty for another.  I tell her like it is if she wants to hear it or not.  She does the same for me.  I just pray the words that I have told her in the past will some trigger herself to do well in the future.  Other than that all I can do is be loving, keep it real, and listen.

Now with my other two kids ( i feel like I have two sets of kids).  I'm trying my best to teach them the skies the limit.  Reach for your goals PLUS some.  I think I have it beat that my youngest will eat very healthy.  She's a health nut at eight years old.  My eleven year old on the other hand is a challenge, but one I am still trying to change the mold, and praying that it works.   It's sometimes hard to tell where the line is with kids like this on how fragile they are, thier eating patterns, and how much "damage" you've already caused until they get older vs. you know you have to give it your all and make them healthy.  I hope that made sense.  

This is a good but painful post.

For me, it wasn't my mom, it was my dad.  Both my parents are MO and have been since as long as I can remember.  And both my parents did make comments about my weight.  But my mommy was always more sympathetic about it.  She'd tell me how she understood how I was having a hard time being the fattest kid in school, how gym was painful for me, how I had a hard time making friends, etc, and was very supportive if I ever got motivated enough to want to diet. 

My Daddy, however, was another story.  He never called me names but he said things that, looking back, hurt.  When I was like 7 or 8 years old, I'd go from the pool (in a bathing suit) into the house to use the bathroom, and passing him by, he'd yell at me in a sarcastic way "Suck it in" referring to my stomach, and thinking it was funny, I'd suck in my fat belly to show him "Look, I can do it" .  Looking back, he was being a dickhead to me and I didn't know it.  Another time, I remember that I came downstairs and sat on the sofa (I couldn't have been more than 10 or 11 years old) and he had a talk with me about how my weight would ruin my life.  What the **** did he expect me to do about my weight when I was 10 years old?  Join a gym?  Drive to weigh****chers?  How the **** was this *MY* problem?  I'm sorry, but if he was that concerned to have talks with me (and there were MANY of those talks) he should have told my mother to put me in Weigh****chers or bring me to karate or something physical to cure this.  I was ten!!!!!!!!!  I couldn't have fixed my obesity on my own!!!

*And now I'm crying.

As I got older, I ate to feel anything other than disappointment in myself.  I ate to rebel.  I ate to tell my parents "Fuck you - I'll be as fat as I want and STILL live my life". 

It hurts you know?  I went to school and got picked on by kids all damn day.  Then I came home and got picked on by my parents. 

They've learned to shut their mouths now.  And I still love them both to pieces.  I just hate how my mother ignored my problem and my father picked on me for it.

Janina!   I understand completly! I don't know how your parents thought they had room to make comments or give advice being MO themselves!! My parents were/are both healthy and active, as were my brother and sister. Which made me the odd duck. I know exactly what it's like to be teased all day at school and then come home to the same thing at home. 

And you're right that at 10 you couldn't fix your obesity on your own. I couldn't either. Thats why I cringe when I see obese kids, especially younger ones. You should see how many dangerously heavy 5 yr olds are at my daughters school! It makes me so sad, and angry. Cuz the parents should be doing something about it! They're setting those kids up for so much pain, emotionally and physically.

Boy, Neen...big stuff here. And it does hurt! The task is to make sure we really feel that pain, and most importantly, be able to examine it from this distance. Dry your tears, Baby. But I am so glad you cried - it tells me that you are allowing that pain to manifest.

We HAVE to accept that this happened - it is what it is. We HAVE to get to where we understand that it is not acceptable to let others treat us like this now.

My folks also directly contributed to my food compulsion by over feeding me, then thinking it was so darn funny. Til it got disgusting.

The one reason we may need to figure out WHY these folks did what they did to us is to forgive them. I liked what Kimmie said that she was able to realize that her folks had their own issues.

For me, it was becoming a parent and realizing that all of us really do the best we can with what we know at that time - such as it is sometimes. I evolved to love my parents right where they are. They did do their best, I believe that. No one is born evil.

To be able to look back fearlessly to observe our actions/reactions is part of the OA inventory process, which never ends as humans grow thru life. This practice helps me all of the time. Like Wise Mary says, all pain that may have contributed to why we became fat and proceed to stay there must be examined.

Group Hug!!!!!!

Great post Neecee!  Self-reflection is powerful.

I grew up in a family of all thin or normal size people - I was the only fat one and it was really difficult for my self-esteem.  My mom weighed 106 pounds (and had a 19" waist) and was ALWAYS dieting and encouraging me to diet with her.  I felt like she was constantly on a diet and encouraging me to diet with her in a veiled attempt at not being obvious that she was concerned and/or embarrassed about my weight.  She never told me I was fat but her actions "told" me that.

My mother STILL diets all the time and for years, constantly talked about it.  I finally told her several years ago that discussing weight/dieting with me was off limits because it made me uncomfortable - a thin person - my mother - discussing how fat she was with my fat self.   As my mother has gotten older, she has gained weight but she's not overweight at all.  I probably weigh more than she does but I'm smaller than she is and discussing her weight (or my weight) with me is still off limits - my size or her size notwithstanding.  We have a good relationship, which I'm thankful for.  I resented her for a long time because I felt judged about my weight.

A therapist told me something years ago that really clicked with me - that my mother was emotionally handicapped by some of her own issues.  Then she asked me what I would do if someone close to me was physically handicapped and I told her I would help them and not hold their limitation against them.  That discussion led to me letting go of the resentment.  She did the best she could at the time.  Realizing and believing that was an epiphany for me and really led to acceptance of who I was and that I determined my happiness, not anyone else.