I need words of wisdom.

This should be a no brainer, especially at my age and my experience with weight loss over the years.  But then again, knowing things doesn't make us follow it! :)

I've been listening to podcasts lately of every kind, anything to do with weight loss and spirituality.  Some of these podcasts are OA events also.  Some things I have heard on OA and other podcasts have really caught my attention.  I'm still trying to figure it out, and work it out in my head but I can't seem to get a gasp on it so I'm  hoping I can get some insight here.

When I lost weight before it was all or nothing.  I couldn't eat anything or I might cave.  Pretty much like AA.  But we all know where that got me. :)  But now for the past several years I have had it in my mind that I can't work that way or it will cause a binge or just plain over eat!  I've been working on moderation is key, and "once in a while" attitude.  But then I think...I've wasted ANOTHER year of where I want to be, where I should be.  Or is it that I just don't want to give any foods up?

In these podcasts it says you have to treat it like AA, or am I wrong?  Do we really need to take away foods?  I'm really wondering if this is the onlly way and I just don't want to hear it.  It was an eye opener on what I've been telling myself the past few years.  Is this why I'm failing?  I'm having a REALLY hard time deciphering between taking every kind of food out of my life that I can gain weight from vs. moderation and be able to eat anything, just use my head if it's the appropreiate time or quanitity.  

After all, so many WW people make it.  They use moderation.  This isn't just for me, I'm assuming a lot of us is stuck on the notion of if we are addicted to foods and don't want to give them up and have too, or if it's really just moderation .  I know both ways work, but for the long haul in our life I wonder which way it has to be.  IS this the reason why people fall off the wagon?  

I need words of wisdom on this one.  For some reason I'm really fighting with myself on it.  Werid because like I said..both ways have worked for people.  But then again over eating is an addiction.    

I feel really stuck, or am I thinking too much into this.

Holly, first let me say that I luvs ya to pieces and that what I'm about to say is not intended to hurt your feelings in anyway whatsoever.  I would never say anything intentionally to cause you pain.  But sometimes it takes someone pointing out things in our lives that we just can't or won't see.  So let me start with the first thing I noticed about you when I came to this board.  You are the kind of person who defiantly holds on to the fact that you should never have to give up any food to lose weight.  As my doctor would say, "It don't work that way."  If I mention the fact that deprivation is a part of losing weight, you start talking about all things in moderation.  But ya know what, moderation is for maintenance, not for weight loss.  If you really want to lose weight, you are going to have to reach deep down inside of you and find that part of yourself that is desperate enough to see a number on the scale that is more important than what you want to put in your mouth.  I've noticed that the people on this board who say they can lose and still have a sugary treat everyday either aren't losing very much, or they stall, or they don't come here anymore.  The truth is, small bites of candy causes a spike in your blood sugar that makes you crave more candy.  So in my opinion, it's better to work on what's going on in your head that you can't resist the candy than to say I'm only going to have a small amount.  Unless you have a great metabolism and workout like a meathead, junk will do your diet in everytime.

And then there's that all or nothing mentality you have.  Yes you lost weight on eating nothing.  But that was so far from being based in reality that all it did was mess with your head and mess with your metabolism.  I say fugget that! 

You know the drill, you just need a little nudge in the right direction.  If you are addicted to certain foods, and they trigger you to eat, kiss 'em goodbye one at a time.  I was addicted to Pepsi.  The way I got over it was to give up Pepsi.  No one glass every now and then...that just bought up all of the old feelings of needing it and was counter productive to my goals.  I was addicted to white bread.  So I quit eating that and switched to a dark wheat bread that I hated.  So if that was the only bread I would allow myself to eat, then I would just as soon not have bread.  You probably know all of this, you just have to learn to "PRACTICE" all of this. 

It's time for you to get down and dirty in the trenches and do the work it takes to make you happy with your body!  But I will say that listening to whatever it is you are listening to is a remarkable tool for you.  Sounds like they are saying just what you need to hear...keep listening!

Find a plan you think you can live with and get started on the damned thing.  If you want to go off of that plan, stop eating everything at that point and figure out what's going on in your head instead.  That's where the battlefield truly starts, not in your stomach and not in the way a plan makes you nauseous.  It's not the plan making you nauseous, it's the fear of being deprived.  But that takes practice to get over...so start practicing and come back here when you need help!

We all luvs ya!

 Mary           

Thanks Mary.

Lol, I'm actually crying!  First of all I wan to say I know what you mean about people coming and going on here.  I'm not giving up, that's why I'm still  here!  Even after this long, I'm not ready or willing to give up.  I know I have it in me, I just have to figure it out what to do.  Some people might get sick of it, but yanno what, that's what the board is for right?  Figuring it all out until you done it!  One thing you said, "it's the fear of being deprived", I think you might have hit the jack pot. Think I might put those pretty little letters in big print and pur it up by my desk and in big letters stickied on the fridge!

WHen I lost the hundred pounds before I gave up everything.  When my metabolism when crazy and I couldn't even eat at 800 calories (I ate at 500 calories a LOT), I gained wieght back quickly.  I think that scared me, scared me so much that I didn't want to go back to that feeling again.  So when I hear people not eating anything they want to eat, it freaks me out.  I think I'm just starting to open up my eyes to that.  It's not that I don't have it in me, I do.  I'm just confused on the "reality", that you talked about.   I think I've confused it with a liquid diet and not realize that life will "be okay" if I don't eat certain things.

I didn't mean for this post to be "all about me".  I truely thought it was an eye opener on what I heard.  But I'm glad I did, and I'm going to go reread what you said again to "soak it up".lol  Don't give up on me yet! :)

Holly

Awwe shucks Holl, now ya done went and me cry!  And girl, we never once EVVA thought about giving up on you!  This is where I come to talk trash about weight loss that no one else I know wants to hear, and everytime I think about what you are going through, it helps to reinforce MY journey, so I'm definitely getting something out of this, too.

And for right now, on this particular post..."IT IS ALL ABOUT YOU."  What Holly is having to face at this particular intersection in her life, and what Holly needs to hear to move her forward to weight loss.  And if it helps someone else out there to focus on their issues, then that's just lagniappe.  

So 'fear of being deprived' is what we'll definitely have to work on.  My prayer for you is that one day you will be on here talking to some newbie about how you got over your fear of deprivation and went on to work the hell out of some realistic everyday plan and lost half of yourself. 

Ask me now if I'm sorry I gave up Pepsi and bread to get to where I am today.  Not one stinkin' bit.  And when I think about how much control those two things used to have over me, I don't even recognize that person.  For me it was finally wrapping my head around the fact that those things were making me fat and why would I want to be friends with them when they were actually my enemy.  The hardest part is 'doing'.  But like my Daddy used to say, "If you want to run with the big dawgs, you have to get off the porch!"  In Alaskan, that means, "You have to start somewhere."   

Mary

This is just my opinion as a sometime lurker on this site, but I think OA is based on the AA tenet that what you are dealing with is a "disease" and must be handled in a certain way. I am more in the Rational Recovery camp of taking personal responsibility for my choices and learning to deal with the part of my brain that drives me to make choices that my intellectual-self KNOWS are not healthy. That "fear of being deprived" is a ages-old impulse to survive that longer has value in this day and age. Knowing that a certain food causes a blood sugar spike and more cravings is knowing that you need to be reasonable to yourself and not take that first bite and then find alternatives that work with your body, not against it. For myself that's a low-carb, high protein, try to keep the blood sugar as even as I can kind of place.
So I guess what I'm saying is with the OA pod cast - consider the source and decide if it works with what you know about yourself.
Jan

OK, Holly...you know you and I are in the same boat.  Only difference is that I've been in that boat 20+ years longer (all the time with one oar going forward and one backward).  That amounts to going in circles!!

Mary....I fully agree with everything you said.  The only time I was majorly successful with my weight loss was with the Food Addicts Anonymous program that totally eliminated white sugar and flour from my diet.  (I lost 70 lb in 5 months and never felt better in my life)  I am definitely addicted to both and eating any (even small quantities) brings on cravings galore.  I have tried to disprove that over and over through the years telling myself that I don't deal well with deprivation and should be able to practice moderation.  Well, we all know where that's gotten me....age 62 and still fighting/losing the battle.  I am terribly carb sensitive and just hope that I haven't screwed up my metabolism so badly that I can't even tolerate fruits and higher starch veggies.

I have decided to try and make healthy choices while counting WW points and calories and see where I stand for a while.  I've finally come to realize that the carb-o-hydrate actually means just that.  When I eat carbs, my body just holds on to all that fluid like crazy and I can easily gain 5lb overnight.

Every decade...turning 30, 40, 50, 60....I have decided that this is the time when I'm finally gonna do it.  And every time that "30seconds on the lips"  becomes more important than "forever on the hips".  My inactivity and sedentary lifestyle hasn't helped and now my weight and age have caught up with me and it's VERY difficult to get this body in motion.  I get really depressed when I think of all those years I've wasted....when I was actually able to get out and walk every day and didn't.

I won't ever give up this fight....but Mary, you are so right (as usual).  Time to take what we KNOW and put it into PRACTICE!!  I have been struggling with the same 15 lb for years now and getting nowhere.    Time to become aware of WHY I'm eating, as well as WHAT.

Thanks, Holly for the post    and Mary for your sage advice. 

Holly:

I don't think there's one "right" way for everyone.  I actually experienced BOTH deprivation and moderation both while losing weight and maintaining my weight.  I too used to be an "all or nothing" kind of gal but I finally realized that the "all or nothing"/fasting type diets only took me where I wanted to be for a short time.  I used to eat out 5-7 times a week - it was mostly because eating out defined my social life (and secondarily because I loved food).  I realized when it was time to get serious with myself that 1) eating out every day did not support my nutritional needs and 2) eating out every day took too much time - there was no time left to take care of me (e.g., exercise).  So, I definitely deprived myself of both the kind of food and way of life I had become accustomed.

The type of exercise I did in the beginning (bikram yoga) was supportive of eating healthy.  Well not only supportive but was punitive when I didn't eat healthy.  Bikram yoga is a 90 minute class held in a room that is 105-110 degrees with 50-60% humidity.  Google the heat index and you'll see how absolutely MISERABLE it was if I fueled my body with crap.  I did bikram yoga at least 6 times per week - both for the exercise and stress relief.  I never thought yoga could be exercise but the pace of bikram yoga along with the heat seemed like it made the fat melt off and I developed amazing tone from it.

As I lost my weight, I ate things in moderation. If I was going to yoga (and there were very few legitimate excuses to miss - e.g., vomiting before I walked in the yoga studio), I did not eat unhealthy foods because it made me feel like crap.  If I wasn't going to yoga and I wanted to go out to eat, I'd eat whatever I wanted.  But, the deprivation that was going on already sort of fueled the moderation, if that makes sense?  My desire for crap diminished and my willingness to feel like crap diminished.
So, that's a long story to say that I think both deprivation and moderation is key to any plan.  I don't believe in plans that can't be sustained for the rest of your life.

You all have seen my past food posts - I do eat crap but it's on occasion.  I don't have the urge to binge - ever - anymore.  I don't know why?  Maybe because I know that I can have whatever I want so I don't have to feel deprived?  Not sure.  I don't feed my feelings anymore nor is my social life centered around food.

It's been an eye opening journey for me and I'm grateful I feel like a normal sized person now - both physically and emotionally.
It's a hard journey but you're worth it!  There is no "right" way but there's the "Holly" way.  You have to really dig deep to figure out what will work for YOU.
We're all cheering for you!
Kim

Omg, your my hero!ha  I wanna eat like you!lol    I wish I could get my mind frame in the place where yours is at.  It's exactly where I've been trying to go.  But confused with it all at the same time, make sense?  I guess after time the moderation would come into action.  It's just I've never played that game before, or maybe I should say I haven't played "that game" in a long, long, time.  

Thanks for the post.  It's a real eye opener seeing different responses, and different ways.  i'm going to have to loook up that yoga class you took.  My gawed, I think I would have a heart stroke if I attended that.  But very interesting at the same time!  I've actually been listening and searching for some meditation, yoga, and any kind of spiritual self healing type of podcasts or books.  So if you know any I would love to hear what they are.

Holly:
It took me about 20 years to get there so don't beat yourself up!  And, I work on it everyday so that I can maintain it.
Regarding the yoga, I have to admit that I thought it was pure crap at first - yanno they preached all the stuff about ridding your body of toxins - physically and emotionally - and frankly I thought it was hogwash BUT I was willing to try it.  It is by far the most physically and emotionally complete workout I've ever done.  It changed my body and the way I felt about myself.  I can't wait to get back to it when I recover.
Um, if you try bikram yoga in Alaska, remember that when you're done, you're soaking wet (like you got out of the shower) so you have to shower and dry off before you step outside, otherwise you'll turn into an icicle.  Happened to a friend of mine in Minnesota - she quickly learned her lesson!
I've not tried any other yoga or meditation so I can't help you there.  I think Neecee has; maybe she'll jump in.
 Kim

Kimmie is a lean mean losing machine!  She's my hero, too.

Hey Holl, Kimmie is the Meathead with the great metabolism I mentioned before.  She had a bad thyroid and had to go on medication which kicked her metabolism into high gear.  Add to that all of that working out like she was on Biggest Loser made it go even faster.  There was a point in time that she was in a contest at the gym and ate to work out eating only protein.  Even I couldn't stomach THAT much chicken!!!  Now that her metabolism is fixed, she maintains her weight loss by eating small amounts of food with the occassional bite of a goody.  I still am astounded how someone can have the willpower to eat half of a cupcake or half of a cookie.  She's definitely a better person than I am!  I know me, if I'm eating one cookie, I'm eating TEN cookies!

Ya know what is totally not fair about our Kim...her endorphins WORK!  I'm not sure that mine ever have.

Mary