OT: A penny for your thoughts?

Of course, it was a not-so-subtle request for a different car!  And me personally, I am okay with that in a church venue.  Yes, churches are primarily supposed to be for worship, but a very important other draw is the community. Chances are good that somebody will think about a car they don't use to sell for hey, about $1650!  Business, baby.  Churches are in a sort of business of course.

i see nothing wrong with this. if you can't turn to your church family for help and prayers when you need them, then the church is not providing as it should. i think your struggle with your own faith has made you cynical. i didn't see this email as "playing the God card" at all. for one, did the ppl in question actually send out that email? or did someone else send it out? many times, from experience in my own church, ppl ask for prayers concerning a specific need and someone else takes it upon themselves to go the extra mile and ask for monetary (or services) help for said ppl. i know for example one year, one of my close friends that goes to the same church i go to knew that my family didn't have very much money for christmas. during a meeting at church (that i wasn't at) she told them about it and they handed me and my husband a check for $300 the next sunday surprising the heck out of us. and secondly, i can identify with these ppl because my husband and myself are going thru practically the exact same thing. about 2 yrs ago my transmission died. we had it rebuilt spending over $2000 on it. a yr and a half later, that transmission was trash again and we were told we had to totally replace it this time to a total of over $3000. this of course is $ that we do not have. we have asked for prayer concerning this because we honestly didn't know what to do. we could use a credit card and throw us deeper in debt to get another transmission that might just go out in a yr like the other 2 did. (this model car has issues with transmissions---what i would have given to have known this BEFORE we bought it!!) we can't afford a new car because we are already heavily in debt. so, it was either more debt to fix it or drive it and pray it lasts until we have some $ freed up. we asked for prayers. we didn't ask for $ and i didn't expect anyone to give us $. we decided going deeper in debt wasn't an option. so i'm currently driving it and praying it doesn't die on me at a bad time. but, i can totally understand wanting to make sure God is in your decision. because it is easy to hastily make the wrong decision without waiting on God. and honestly, for EVERY decision you make, you should be praying about what God wants you to do. again, i'm sorry you are struggling with your faith. i have struggled in the past. and i still struggle with trusting God. but, i know the reason i struggle with trust is because of issues in my childhood and past. it's my problem i don't trust, it's not because God isn't trustworthy. He's come thru for me every time.

I have to say I do agree with you.  After further reflecting upon the email and my own clouded judgment I feel that my own 'issues' have caused me to be cynical and very judgmental of anything related to God or church.  I believe my problem is with people and religion, not with God.  Once I learn to forgive them then perhaps things will change for me.  Until then I continue to doubt God's existence or at least the existence of God as described by Christianity. I doubt because of the way I see people and analyze the situations. I am very cynical when it comes to religious matters. :)

I do identify with you, Kriz.  I do not deny God's existance, because I feel her within and all around me.  I too have trouble with the rules that humans have made for us in order to be worthy!  God is not fear, God = Love, pure and simple. I have come to the conclusion that God is at the top of the mountain and there are many paths to the Top! This is a denominational thang if you ask me. Shop around!

I've thought about doing that.  Shopping around that is.  To be perfectly honest, and I think we've shared this before, I don't really feel like Christianity is right for me period. I suspect all churches still believe the same fundamental things.  I have a hard time accepting any of it anymore..despite scientific proof. So where else do you shop?  I've looked to metaphysical 'religion' like Science of Mind, Keylontic Science and several others. Those are kinda 'close' but not exactly what I'm looking for.  I'm not an atheist. I know that. I know there's a God, a supreme being, or a "source". Being that I'm so independent, I have a hard time relying on this source, God or supreme being to fulfill my needs and desires. I feel I am capable of doing all of those things myself. Who knows, perhaps I am capable of ascending to Heaven myself..if there is a heaven.  All the years I've spent going to church.. I shouldn't be struggling with this type of stuff. I know all of the Christian answers to my questions..yet I still ask my questions... (sigh) Those answers are not sufficient.  They're too "simple"..if that makes sense. "Jesus loves you and died for you so that you can go to heaven." Okay, wonderful!  But how..?... What difference did that make?  "Jesus will plead your case and you will be washed in his blood and considered sin-free.. Righteous before God the Father's eyes.."  Hmm.. What is this power in the blood?  Why is it so important... If God sent his only begotten son to die on the cross for us so that we could be with the Father.....then why couldn't he have just skipped that step and just allowed us to be with him?  People sacrificed lambs and animals prior to Jesus..so what's the deal with this blood? Why do things have to die for us to be saved or considered righteous... Hmm.. Interesting stuff there... Looks like I have some new research to do.  See these are the types of things I think about and this is why I look at other Christians and think.."OH you simpletons!! You are brainwashed!".. I question EVERYTHING and I have to have factual answers.  I cannot simply accept that I must have 'faith'. That's the easy way out. ....Am I twisted...?

~~hugs~~ God is not religion.  religions serve purposes that they want to serve. churches can go astray and serve themselves instead of God. christians are human and STILL sinners. if you put your faith in ppl, you will be disappointed.  you need to put your faith in Him and allow him to show you how very much he exists and loves you. and even the smallest problems you have he cares about. i grew up methodist. my dad was a methodist minister (he is deceased now) and my mother still is a methodist minister. i grew up with very jaded views on church due to what i went thru as a child thru different churches my parents served in. couple examples: (1) when i was around 11ish i'd say at one of my dad's churches there were these little old ladies that went to that church that actually told me and my 2 younger sisters to NOT listen to and do what my parents told us to do. ~~boggles~~ (2) another church my dad served when i was a teenager....he came into the church with it being split. there were two families in the church fighting over LAND! and he was forced to try and be the peacemaker between them. and of course half the church sided with one family and half the church with the other family. i left church with a very warped view of God as a teenager because i was basing my view of God on the experiences i had with those churches. but God wasn't those ppl. they were sinners, obviously doing the wrong things. there are churches out there that are GOOD! it took me a long time to even begin to try and find a church again. i believed all of them were corrupt in some way, shape or form. but, you know, i was focusing on the ppl in the church and not God himself. the church i go to now is great. and i believe their heart is all about serving God. but, even there, there will be ppl who disappoint because it is human nature.

"is all about serving God" That..I struggle with that.  I just don't feel like life is really all about serving God.  I am told if I don't serve God then I am not on his good side and I will be punished. It seems like people try to teach you to live right by fearing God and then turn around and contradict themselves by saying God is loving.  "God loves you, but if you don't do what he says then things will not go right in your life!" or "Well, have you prayed to God about these things? Maybe you're not in his favor?" (Hmm.. I think Job experienced some of those very accusations...) Anyways, back to the whole serving God thing.. It is burdensome to me. I'm told that it should be a burden and that you should love to serve God. Why don't I feel like that? Part of me would LOVE to go overseas and do a mission. To bring the gospel to the third world countries.  You know why?  For my own selfish reasons.. I think that would be a wonderfully humbling experience and you'd get to see how life was before all of it went to hell. You'd learn survival skills and new languages. You'd meet people who are genuinely appreciative of the things you do. If I go on a mission it's not because I'm serving God but because I'm serving myself.  Am I twisted??  I don't really think so.. I think many missionaries are similar. They go because they love these people and doing the mission work is a challenge and is very rewarding for them. I suppose when you don't have to live with the hustle and bustle in your life you have more time to spend in prayer and worship. Maybe that's the point of it. who knows.   I also realize that you can serve God without going anywhere.  Turning the lights off in your church... doing a church work day, talking to a neighbor about Jesus... Know what.. I could care less about those things.   Am I twisted?? I'm just so very confused about the whole thing. I think I will struggle till the end of my day.  The one thing I keep repeating over and over is I don't want to feel guilty anymore. Church, God, Christianity, Jesus..they all make me feel guilty because I'm not doing what I am told I should be doing.  My God, I'm not a bad person. I don't do horrible things. I am saved. I help people all the time and everyone looks at me as kind and gentle, loving and caring... yet I still feel guilt.  Guilt because I don't want to follow the one true way and guilty because I question everything I have been told. Everything I read. The God I choose to serve will not make me feel guilty.

www.raptureready.com 

"I am told if I don't serve God then I am not on his good side and I will be punished." not sure what the basis of this is. i've never been told this. however, if you are truely saved then you should desire a closer walk with him. you should want to let him have control of your life. he has a plan for all of us. that plan will only be fulfilled when we cooperate and stop resisting. i do not believe god "punishes" us like that. what i do believe is that in everything we do we have a choice. if we make the wrong choice then it can and usually does result in a negative outcome. god is not going to lead you into something with a negative outcome. i know, in alot of cases, it is difficult to see how things are positive. but, i can promise you that in ALL the cases where in the moment i was doubting his direction...at the end of the road i could see how it all worked out. as far as selfishness goes, i think we all struggle with that. in alot of cases i believe that we go along with what he wants because it suits our selfish desires. whatever our intentions are tho, god still works it out. i struggle with my own selfishness and pride. i love to sing (tho i'm terrified of doing it in front of ppl). this christmas our youth at church made a christmas CD. the adult choir also did 2 songs on this CD that all tied in together. i sang a solo in the 2 adult songs. i could not wait to give out copies of this CD at christmas to friends a family. ya know why? it was because of pride in myself and my children and my church. the first thing that should have been on my mind was that hopefully a message in the music would touch someone, but it wasn't. guilt is a result of you not feeling worthy i guess. may not be the exact word for you and in this particular case, but it gets the gist of it. for whatever reasons, you don't feel like you are measuring up and you feel guilty because of it. god does not make you feel guilty. you do. a person only feels guilt when they know they are doing or have done something they shouldn't. if you knew your way was right and ok, then you wouldn't feel any guilt. deep down inside tho, you know you are resisting. i do not know why you are resisting. we all have issues in our past that contribute to the journey we have in our faith. each journey is a different and personal one. i am even now still struggling with my own journey. all i can do is pray for you and hope that you find the truth for yourself. oh and btw, pls don't base your guilt on what people are telling you to do. base it on what god is telling you to do. ppl botch things up all the time. things get misinterpreted and stretched way outta context by ppl wanting to turn things into their own beliefs. the only way to know the real truth is to find it in the bible and from god.

"not sure what the basis of this is. i've never been told this. however, if you are truely saved then you should desire a closer walk with him." The basis is, "Repent or go to hell, you sinner!"...  "If you're not saved, you'll burn in a lake of fire."..  "You will reap what you sow. If you sin, there will be consequences.", "You didn't tell that person about God when you felt the spirit tugging on you..and now he's dead.. he's in hell..", "Tithe your 10% and God will bless you! Ever wonder why you can't seem to make ends meet? Are you hoarding your money and not paying God what is his??", "Serve God here so that your reward in Heaven will be great..", "Don't be the only one in heaven watching other people receive their rewards!", "Get yourself right with God and quit sinning so you, too, can experience this great joy.. (and then immediately after you will hear, "Being a Christian isn't easy...you'll be tempted and have so many troubles, but it's worth it..")".. I'm sure there's a bunch more I could come up with but this is enough for now. Despite all of that, I do desire a closer walk.. I just can't seem to figure out how to get there.. instead I keep being lead down a road of skepticism and doubt. The more answers I seek..the more I try to understand how to grow near..the further away I become.  It frightens me.  "you should want to let him have control of your life. he has a plan for all of us. that plan will only be fulfilled when we cooperate and stop resisting. " What about my plan?? Do my plans not matter??  I have such a hard time with this. It goes back to the whole serving God thing. I'm selfish. "but, i can promise you that in ALL the cases where in the moment i was doubting his direction...at the end of the road i could see how it all worked out. " I can't disagree. I've experienced that myself. However, I've also found it to be true when I doubt him.  It always, always, ALWAYS works out in the end. I hear of other peoples situations that didn't work out for the best.. Mine always have.. Why am I so blessed?? Am I destined to be great or am I just merely resourceful and make the best out of all my situations? "it was because of pride in myself and my children and my church. the first thing that should have been on my mind was that hopefully a message in the music would touch someone, but it wasn't. " And did you feel guilty because you didn't put God first?  I know I always do. I don't want to feel that way. I don't see what the big deal is with being proud of yourself and wanting to show others what you have done and have them praise you.  That's the kinda guilt I guess I'm talking about. " guilt is a result of you not feeling worthy i guess. may not be the exact word for you and in this particular case, but it gets the gist of it. for whatever reasons, you don't feel like you are measuring up and you feel guilty because of it. god does not make you feel guilty. you do. " I dunno.. I feel pretty worthy.  I feel guilty for not doing things they way the Bible says to do them. In that sense I suppose I am not measuring up..but who in the world can????  Yes, I make myself feel guilty. I choose to experience that emotion but if the do's and dont's were not there then I probably wouldn't feel so restricted...and guilty when I fumble.  " if you knew your way was right and ok, then you wouldn't feel any guilt. deep down inside tho, you know you are resisting. i do not know why you are resisting." I feel the guilt because I'm told my way is not right and ok. I feel like my way should be 'good enough'. When I read and when I listen to others who proclaim God's way is right and they look so happy to be doing it..  I then say.."well..I must be doing it all wrong because I'm not happy go lucky and smiling like them."  So then I decide God's way must be right.. so I set out to do it the right way but then.. like dieting.. i fail.. i quit.. i get discouraged..and I give up.  Then I enter back into the vicious cycle all over again.  I just want to live my life and do whatever I feel is 'good' and not have to worry about all the little things like "Have I prayed today?" or "Doh!! I looked at her butt!".   " oh and btw, pls don't base your guilt on what people are telling you to do. base it on what god is telling you to do." How??  How do you know when God is telling you to do something...?  I can understand reading the bible to find out what you should be doing..but that often makes me feel more guilty. There's no possible way I can do everything the bible says to do... or better yet.. that it says not to do because there's a lot more don'ts than dos. Trust me I don't listen to what people tell me to do. That's the whole reason I'm in the predicament I'm in because when I read the bible I often interpret things quite differently than how others do.