Some people can do it the old fashioned way!

Good Lawd Chris...is fried chicken on her list of approved foods?  And that's the crap shoot of any WLS, I have a friend who is has a DS and she can't eat tomatoes, nuts of any kind, and mushrooms.  Of course, I can't eat mushrooms either,   I hate the way they taste.  She also gets sick when she eats a few different meats.  But the good thing is, she's skinny as a rail and under goal.  But she can't eat.  Helluva trade off. Not that I'm saying there's anything wrong with that!   I'll shut up now, Mary

Of course it's not on her list of approved foods but that doesn't change the fact that she likes it.  She's lost over 250lbs with her RNY and is still MO. She's entitled to some fried chicken from time to time! heheh The point is really, that she can still eat it. The side-affects differ for each person with every surgery.  Typically with the DS, the eating habits closely resemble that of the RNY early on. 2+ years post-op the DSer is able to eat more and more foods that they couldn't eat before. Some have problems with meats some with veggies. It varies. Same goes for most RNYers, though I believe sugar causes a lot of issues long-term. At least large amounts of sugar anyway.. Not that I'm saying there's anything wrong with that! Exactly... I'm willing to live with a few foods taken off the menu for a while. It helps when you physically can't eat them. Although, many report that the DS completely changes their taste for food. What they loved pre-op they don't care for post-op. That's for 1-5 years and 5+ both.

Well crap, I'm gettin' a DS if it will change the way I feel about chocolate!!!  Wouldn't it be great if chocolate was the cure for our hormone ailments!   I'll get to work on that right away.

My story is like everyone elses. I've dieted and dieted and all I do is regain.   Discipline probably isn't the best word to describe it.  Perhaps it's better described as "learned new habits"? That doesn't sound right either. My surgery of choice is a little different than the RNY.  The duodenal switch (DS) allows me certain liberties that RNYers don't have. Like the RNY, it's a restrictive and malabosorptive. There are several differences between the two but I won't go into those. The information is out there if you're interested.  More importantly the DS allows me to be more 'normal'. I have no desire to think about how many calories are in this, fat in that, carbs in those... I despise it! I hate routine and all that craziness. The DS requires the least amount of changes and I won't experience dumping. Early on, the restriction from the VSG portion of the procedure will allow me the break I need to conquer my demons. After 1-2 years out the malabsorption will help me to maintain what I have lost. Does that mean I can go and eat 100 twinkies and wash them down with mountain dew? Of course not...but does mean I can enjoy a large variety of foods and not have to feel guilty.  I'm a carnivore. I love fat and protein. The DS allows me to continue eating those things without guilt..because I have to have them to live.  I've talked to SO many DSers and each of them are completely ecstatic with their life after surgery. I know of only 1 or 2 people who have done it the natural way and can say they're "happy". They battle their urges every single day. I don't want to be that way.  I want to be done with this once and for all. The DS will help me to do tjust that.  I have about 30 other reasons as to why I want this surgery.  For me, it is the only way I will succeed. It took me a lot of failures to admit that. 

hmmm.....DS is actually the surgery i am most familiar with. have you spoken with DSers who are a few years out? i have a friend in DC who i would frequently walk with and eat with. she definitely can't eat EVERYTHING and still has to pay attention to what and how much she eats to prevent weight gain. she has been very, very successful but still has to work at it. you will still have to pay attention to everything you eat and make sure you take the correct supplements for the rest of your life. no matter what you do, you'll have to battle with this the rest of your life. DS is not a miracle cure either and i think you are definitely mistaken if you think you can eat whatever fat and protein you want without consequences.  again, you need to examine WHY you eat and find new ways to deal with those issues if you truly want to solve your problems and be "done once and for all."

Andrea, I have the same friend in DC...and we were recently having a discussion about chocolate.  She won't go into a certain bookstore because they sell individual pieces of white chocolate, and she has to avoid it so she doesn't gain weight.  So to say that she can eat what she wants, and not gain weight is incorrect.  She can just tolerate more without getting sick.  Which puts her in the same boat as you and I.  Struggling not to gain! But if she ate at will, she would be huge...and ruin all of that beautiful work her plastic surgeon did on her!  

I've talked to DSers 13-19 years out who struggle to keep weight on, not off.  I've talked to DSers who also struggle to keep the weight off too. However, there are more who don't struggle. The point is you CAN eat everything, unlike with the RNY where you CAN'T eat everything. I'm not saying that eating improperly won't make you gain. That's not true at all.  However, the DS is more resilient should you eat badly. "DS is not a miracle cure either and i think you are definitely mistaken if you think you can eat whatever fat and protein you want without consequences." There is no miracle cure. I've always known that. The DS provides the easiest terms that I can live with. I can't live with yo-yoing for the rest of my life. With my thyroid issues the DS also forces me to follow a high protein/low carb diet that I may not be able to stick to with without surgery. Post-op, if I don't get in my protein and fat I could become severely malnutritioned. Eat to live, if I dare say. Whereas now, I basically have to NOT eat in order to live. So perhaps I'm making a trade-off but it's one I can live with. It's the closest I can get to a 'cure' in my mind.  What consequences are you referring to and with what fats and proteins? "again, you need to examine WHY you eat and find new ways to deal with those issues if you truly want to solve your problems and be "done once and for all."" Have you found new ways to deal with why you eat?  You still struggle too.. with the very same things you struggled with before you lost all your weight. I suspect you have to constantly think of new ways to deal with your demons. WLS is a way for me to deal with my demons.  What you have done is amazing! No one will say otherwise.  I'm telling you though with more of a clear head than I've ever had,  I will NOT have the same success as you.

"What consequences are you referring to and with what fats and proteins?" mental anguish of weight gain and not being able to eat the way you used to. and physical consquences of eating the wrong foods - because of th emalabsorption, if you are eating too much or the wrong fats, you will have gastro consequences (similar to alli). "Have you found new ways to deal with why you eat?  You still struggle too.. with the very same things you struggled with before you lost all your weight. I suspect you have to constantly think of new ways to deal with your demons. WLS is a way for me to deal with my demons." that would be fine if your demons were in your gastrointestinal track. yes, i have figured out why i eat, why i was overweight, and what i need to do to not be that way again. that is a result of lots of hard emotional work of examining and whacking off these 'demons.' i definitely do not struggle with 75% if the things that i used to struggle with. i am a completely different person is every way than i was when i started my weight loss journey in 2001. with or without surgery, you will still need to deal with the mental issues. if you don't, even after surgery, lets say you manage to lose weight and you don't even gain weight back - you won't have your primary coping mechanism (food) to deal with the emotional things that curently prompt you to eat and binge. very possible you will likely develop other unhealthy ways of dealing with those things - other addictive behaviors, emotional problems (depression etc). the little research out there on longer term outcomes generally shows that there are worse outcomes for those who have bariatric surgery who have binge eating problems or other pre-existing affective issues that don't get treated.  i just want to make sure that if you do go through with surgery, that you are giving yourself the best chance at long term success. that will involve a LOT more than just what alterations you make to your body and the food that you eat. you need to understand why you eat and what keeps you from being able to control your eating. how are you going to change your environment and relationships in order to put yourself in a position to maximize success? once you figure all that out and make those plans, then you'll be ready to have success with surgery.

"mental anguish of weight gain and not being able to eat the way you used to. and physical consquences of eating the wrong foods - because of th emalabsorption, if you are eating too much or the wrong fats, you will have gastro consequences (similar to alli)." The mental anguish of weight gain is NO where near what it is like without the DS. Maintenance is much easier and unless you devour nothing but sugar and carbs it's relatively guiltless.  As for the gastro problems, DSers report smelly gas more so than anything else.  There are some who have issues with diarrhea and constipation. All of these symptoms are controlled by either food or  medication. There really isn't a wrong fat with the DS, though. They're all malabsorbed. A better blanket statement would be 'Fat can cause loose stools with the DS."  Fat causes loose stool with me now. Too much fiber causes constipation with me now.  I have a lot of the issues now that I would have post-op.  You should smell my gas. It's deadly, no matter what I eat.  I'm not exaggerating. Most of the gaseous and icky poop issues with the DS lessen as time goes on. Your body is a magnificent creation and believe it or not, it adjusts to the malabsorption. That's true with the RNY too but to a greater extent since the RNY bypasses less intestines. (Unless it's distal..) I guess what I'm trying to say is the gastro problems are highly exaggerated by medical professionals and the pro-lap/RNY media.  There is an older procedure called the BPD. It was this procedure that the DS was designed from. (Perfected by Dr. Hess.) With this procedure almost all of the patients experienced big problems with stool and gas. The DS was designed to fix that problem. It's often preferred to BPD/DS. Simply put the DS is an improvement and the gastric issues are lessened and non-existant in most.  HOWEVER, if you eat the wrong stuff (white carbs, sugar, McDiddly fatty fat) then you're probably gonna have bad gastric issues. How's that any different than life without WLS??  I think you have this misconception about me. I don't eat this way now and I haven't for a long time. Even when I was away and not dieting for 6 months I never let go of my water nor my improved eating habits. I've changed. I really have.  I do eat those 'bad' items from time to time if you want to call it that. But it's not an everyday thing, nor will it be post-DS. I have that particular demon under control. The DS would allow me to induldge in those items from time to time without or with much less guilt. " with or without surgery, you will still need to deal with the mental issues. if you don't, even after surgery, lets say you manage to lose weight and you don't even gain weight back - you won't have your primary coping mechanism (food) to deal with the emotional things that curently prompt you to eat and binge. very possible you will likely develop other unhealthy ways of dealing with those things - other addictive behaviors, emotional problems (depression etc)." I believe that the restriction from the VSG portion of the DS will allow me to focus on my emotional issues. In all honesty I don't really feel like I have many emotional issues. What I have been noticing lately is an 'ignorant' eating pattern that causes me to overeat. There are times when I turn to food for emotional comfort. I think boredom is an emotion. I'm dealing with that now and I'm making progress.  As you know, part of the process is to see a psych. I plan to continue seeing he/she afterwards to help me deal with all of those issues.  "the little research out there on longer term outcomes generally shows that there are worse outcomes for those who have bariatric surgery who have binge eating problems or other pre-existing affective issues that don't get treated. " Yes, I know but there's also a lot of research out there that shows the DS is most likely to help people with those issues. A lot of those binges happen because of guilt. The DS definitely helps with that. Will it fix it alone?  Doubtful but it's just another mechanism to help me cope with it. The DS is a tool but it's more it kinda has some artificial intelligence in that it will work for me even when I'm not working it. I hear the battery life is quite good but eventually..you do have to take back control. Auto-pilot only works so long. "just want to make sure that if you do go through with surgery, that you are giving yourself the best chance at long term success. that will involve a LOT more than just what alterations you make to your body and the food that you eat. you need to understand why you eat and what keeps you from being able to control your eating. how are you going to change your environment and relationships in order to put yourself in a position to maximize success? once you figure all that out and make those plans, then you'll be ready to have success with surgery." The DS has a 92% success rate at maintaining at least a 65-75% excess weight loss 10 -15 years out.  Surely that means people have dealt with their emotional issues.  I've already changed my environment, my thought process and many other things. By the time my surgery date gets here I KNOW I will be ready to have success. I've made up my mind and there's no changing it. I know this is what I have to do if I want to live past 60.

chris -  i am not trying to dissuade you or make you re-think or doubt your decisions. that has nothing to do with me. and even if my opinion did matter, i do think you should have the surgery. and the DS would be, by far, my most preferred surgery for myself and most others. but again, not my point or my business.

my only point is that based solely on the information you have posted here - about your food choices, binges, impulsivity, "addiction," interaction with your food issues with your wife's, self-concept, self-esteem, "self loathing" - that it seems like there is a lot of work to be done in order for you to be successful with surgery or not. it appears that you are beginning to recognize that and for that, i commend you. last week you were saying you saw no need for therapy. i'm glad that the surgical approval process require psyc clearance. most people need continued treatment after the approval process, which you also seem to acknowledge.  i think *most* of us in this forum only want the best for each other and are here only twith the intention to help ourselves and others to find the best path for themselves whether that's surgery, atkins, rice diet, whatever.