Abstinence - Day 178

Breakfast 1/2 grapefruit 6 small buckwheat pancakes with margarine & light syrup 2 scrambled eggs 1 cup 1% milk 1 mug coffee (out of hazelnut) 2 cups water Afternoon Snack 3 cookies Lemonade No Lunch Dinner Rotisserie chicken leg & wing with skin 1 cup mashed potatoes with margarine 1 can New England clam chowder 17 grapes 1-1/2 cups 1% milk Dessert 2 chocolate cake donuts (we have no graham crackers, so we picked up donuts) 2 cups water Denise Phares

Hi Denise, I actually have a few questions for you--just curious about OA, not looking to debate, or trying to undermine what is working for you. I was wondering if you have to report what you eat daily to your OA mentor?  Does he/she go over proper nurtition and food intake once you get to a certain point/number of days in regards to being "abstinent"?  What does OA do for its members is regards to eating healthy balanced meals? I only ask because I noticed lately you haven't been eating lunch, a lot of your snacks are desserts, and there aren't many veggies in your meal plans.   I do know that you have been losing weight with OA, and that is commendable and something to be proud of.  I was just wondering how long it takes with OA to get to the next level where you start introducing a more defined/portion controlled (ie. carb/protein/fat)  food intake? Looking forward to your response, Katy

I was curious about the above, plus oddly vague entries like "Fast Food- Healthy Style" and "Pizza" (non specific.) I wondered if the accountability applied to all people you share with, or is just between a member and his/her maker kinda thing? Many of these days are well over 1600 calories, which was the goal we were told they were supposed to fulfill. The whole deal confuses me, but maybe it's supposed to? My best guess is that those entries are covering for something or other that Denise doesn't care to admit to fully at this time...either just to us, or possibly to herself...which is another odd form of abstinence that I can't wrap my head around. Losses are losses-- "it's all good"-- but if the goal is to come clean with oneself and others, I think something's a little off, here.

I don't know either.  It confuses me as well.  I just don't feel like there is real accountability going on.  I think it's okay every once and a while to go over the a certain calorie goal intake, but I know I wouldn't be able to lose weight on consistent meals like that.  I think too, the real idea of losing weight is to start to feel healthy, and, speaking honestly, I couldn't eat that and feel good--physically. I also know that I am at much different place then Denise.  But, once I decided to really get on board with the weight loss life style, I knew those things should be regarded as treats, not as daily intake. I guess that is why I am so curious about OA and when health/nutrition aspects start to jump in once a person feels like they aren't going to binge and have remained "abstinent".   And, I too thought to same thing about the donuts, lol!  But again, I too am guilty. I took a bite of my nephews snickers bar today----and enjoyed every peanutty, chocolately bit of goodness! I haven't eaten a candy bar in months--it was so good!

From my own personal blog: "For me, abstinence was about eating things like fast food in a normal way. I'll attempt to explain it this way:  Previously, if I went to McD's, It was usually a sneak trip, which was a trigger for me to purge it. After OA, if I chose to go to McD's, it was a planned meal (such a nutritional nightmare as it was), and purging was not an option afterward. Nor was "kicking myself", shame about food choices became more managed with OA. I quickly learned about my trigger foods:  pizza, fast food, pasta, rice, crackers.  For a time I did not allow myslef to go where it was slippery and not eat those foods. Now i trust myself, though if my head is not right, it can be ugly. I need to have other things in place when I eat them:  not be too hungry when i sit down, big salads, raw veggies, etc." One issue here is that Denise does not feel comfortable sharing exactly what her abstinence means to her. For many compulsive overeaters, just to be able to report out such foods as chocolate donuts is a step in the right direction.  She did not have to tell us that!  I've heard many say that OA gives one a license to kill, or in other words, to be able eat whatever you want cuz you cannot help it. I know OA has a different function...it is NOT a weight loss program - this is hard to grasp.   OA begins to help a person get "normal" with food. I was terrified to eat regular meals., sounds dramatic, i know. but it was terror of getting fat, ironically, the fact that I was macking 1000-2000 EXTRA caloires many days and purging did not feel like a problem until i could admit that it was insane.  anyway....hope this helps somehow.

That actually does help.  And it helps me to know that OA will not talk about nutritional value necessarily and that it's main function is to help one become aware and accept what you are choosing to eat--good or bad.  And, I think that is a big deal and I am happy this place exists for Denise to publicly and safely journal and own up to her eating.  Why don't they take it to the next level though, for those that are ready? And Neecee, when did it hit you that those certain foods were triggers and you chose not to go to McD's but instead make a great salad and some chicken ( in regards to the OA program)?  Or chose not to buy the donuts and instead chose to buy strawberries and fat free cool whip or  fat free sugar free fudgiscles?  That is still my question.  And I know everyone is different, but I think most overweight people can tell you what is a trigger food for them whether or not they are "dieting".  I too trust myself, but, ya know, I still don't keep ice cream in the house becuase I know I'll eat the whole damn thing.  Will I ever overcome that, I don't know.  But I don't even thin**** cream anymore, much like I drove up to McD's this morning get my coffee and that's it--no food--and I was fine, didn't even cross my mind to order food.  Three years ago, I would be in McGriddle heaven!!!! lol.   Thanks for your response, I was actually hoping you would respond becuase I know you went through OA.  So it sounds like OA helped you, do you feel that way and when and why did you decide to leave?

I like the OA approach to food. I dislike the dependency on the higher power. I feel it is my responsibility to overcome this.  Sure my higher power knows about it and I've asked for help in the past but, I dunno.. Just can't seem to grasp that concept at this point.  Anyways, back to the food.  For me I have had to take a similar approach. I cannot make a food off limits for me because I crave it all that much more.  When I have a temptation like chicken wings, I resist initially but if it keeps on I give into it. I try not to go hog wild. I do limit myself and for the most part I am successful when my mind is right.  I am transitioning from the frame of mind that the food controls my actions to my mental state and actions control my food intake.  Just now beginning to understand that area of my brain.  So as to why Denise had those chocolate cake donuts may have been her state of mind at that moment.  She skipped lunch this day so perhaps she was feeling rushed or maybe that it was okay to have these since she didn't have lunch?  She obviously did feel guilty about it because she took the time to notate that she didn't have the better choice of graham crackers. So, I'd say what she is doing is definitely working for her. She is learning about her mind and body and what triggers what.  I commend her resistance! She only ate two... That's control!   You mentioned choosing strawberries and fat free cool whip over the donuts.  Personally, I would have chosen the donuts myself.  You have to really get to a point that you love the fruit as much as the donut and I know I'm not there and Denise probably isn't either.  The sugar free fudgsicles on the other hand.  I would have chosen those over the donuts but perhaps she doesn't like them or didn't want something that cold.   However, I am very curious to hear Neecee's response. I too would like to know how you get to this point where you "prefer", really prefer, to have fruit over snacky cakes. 

I agree with you Chris, and I think I mentioned in all my posts that Denise is doing a good job for herself  and I know she is losing weight and gaining control ---  that this is what is working for her.  We all have to find what works best for us--so it was never about undermining her approach.  It was more about knowledge for myself and when that next step comes in.  I too think only taking 2 donuts when a whole box is there shows great control.   Again, my question is more with the program: when does the program start to guide you more nutritionally--and from Neecee's previous post, it doesn't sound like OA really does that.  Or when does an OA person  start to realize, now that I know I can control or plan  what I eat (good or bad), I need to make better balanced choices. I quit cold turkey.  One day, I just decided to do it.  I started exercising and eating right.  And I'll be honest, in the beginning when I saw so much weight dropping, I was too scared to go back to my old ways or give into my temptations because when I did that in the past, I gained all my weight back.  I would let myself have one day a month where I would chose a meal that I really wanted that wasn't  "good" for me.   Eventually,  my tastes changed significantly though.  It took about 4-6 months.   I don't crave the fatty, sugary, carby foods anymore, and I'm usually good with a taste of something or one ice cream cone.  Now there were and at times stiill are lots of bumps in the road and even some that I didn't think  I would overcome.  And I can see where a program like OA could help someone stay the course.  But losing weight and making life changes isn't easy.  I still struggle on occassion.  We all know it's about being able to pick ourselves up and move on.  I also agree that no food should be "off limits".  You just set yourself up for failure. 

I like the OA approach to food. I dislike the dependency on the higher power. I feel it is my responsibility to overcome this.  Sure my higher power knows about it and I've asked for help in the past but, I dunno.. Just can't seem to grasp that concept at this point.  Anyways, back to the food.  For me I have had to take a similar approach. I cannot make a food off limits for me because I crave it all that much more.  When I have a temptation like chicken wings, I resist initially but if it keeps on I give into it. I try not to go hog wild. I do limit myself and for the most part I am successful when my mind is right.  I am transitioning from the frame of mind that the food controls my actions to my mental state and actions control my food intake.  Just now beginning to understand that area of my brain.  So as to why Denise had those chocolate cake donuts may have been her state of mind at that moment.  She skipped lunch this day so perhaps she was feeling rushed or maybe that it was okay to have these since she didn't have lunch?  She obviously did feel guilty about it because she took the time to notate that she didn't have the better choice of graham crackers. So, I'd say what she is doing is definitely working for her. She is learning about her mind and body and what triggers what.  I commend her resistance! She only ate two... That's control!  You mentioned choosing strawberries and fat free cool whip over the donuts.  Personally, I would have chosen the donuts myself.  You have to really get to a point that you love the fruit as much as the donut and I know I'm not there and Denise probably isn't either.  The sugar free fudgsicles on the other hand.  I would have chosen those over the donuts but perhaps she doesn't like them or didn't want something that cold.   However, I am very curious to hear Neecee's response. I too would like to know how you get to this point where you "prefer", really prefer, to have fruit over snacky cakes. 

My point isn't that donuts are "evil" or even "wrong" or a "poor choice." You want a donut, you eat a donut. Where I lose my patience is with the fuzzy logic: "I had no graham crackers, so we picked up donuts." The statement is patently illogical, and seems to be passing some kind of blame (which really isn't necessary.) If you are being accountable (to yourself, your higher power, or the great ooga booga) wouldn't you say, "I ate two donuts" and not try to pass it of as some logical choice based on a bogus cir****tance? (i.e. "If those damn graham crackers had been there, I wouldn't have had to eat those donuts.") Denise doesn't owe me any accountability, but what about herself? And if she posts it publically, if it seems less than accountable, am I supposed to say something, or smile politely and go, "Okay" when I read this stuff? I don't understand the rules. By posting it, it seems you're inviting public commentary. But by commenting, we're being mean and nasty to a defenseless, nice lady. Seems like some kind of a trap to me, and I don't like traps. It feels like a set up: comment and you're making a victim out of a nice person-- don't comment, and you're allowing a fellow human who seems to want some kind of input (or why post here?) to continue thinking and saying illogical things that could get her into trouble. I really don't appreciate being backed into those kind of corners.