We really need universal healthcare...

I've looked into it pretty heavily.  When you do the math it is a much better system that what we have here in America.  The long waits you experience is because everyone can see the doctor.... unlike here in America where a VERY large percentage of people do not go to the doctor because they can't afford it, or the insurance for that matter.  It's not to say that there aren't caveats with universal healthcare. There are many.. However, the pros far outweigh the cons..   I won't say anymore because I really hate debating.  I'll close with it is my opinion that universal healthcare is what America needs. I'm sick of insurance companies getting rich off of people going through pain and dying.

I won't get into a debate either Chris, but I will say Ins. companies are a BUSINESS, they have the right to make a profit same as any other business.  Its up to a person's employer to purchase good ins. for thier employees, hopefully with bariactric coverage.  We happen to pay quite a bit for our ins. if we wanted better, or different ins. my DH would change jobs, but the job he loves outweighs having lessor ins. Our DD has been disabled for many years, and we have never had a problem with an HMO or reg. ins so far.

There are a lot of 'ok' insurance companies out there that do cover a wide variety of things.  They are very supportive when it comes to some cancers and disabilities. Group plans are definitely the cheapest and usually the best way to go.  Nonetheless it is a business like you say and they make money by charging a monthly premium and then denying claims.  For example, my current provider denied a claim that my wife had for a simple doctor's visit where she obtained a new prescription for her anxiety meds.  They paid for part of the prescription but wouldn't pay for the doctor visit.  I'm paying 300 a month so my wife and I can go to the doctor every once in a while and they're ripping me off. But I have to have the insurance coverage so I don't fall under any pre-existing clauses... Re-friggin-diculous!!    Universal healthcare would mean I wouldn't have to worry about these types of things.  I don't mind paying for insurance, I really don't.... but I expect it to cover me when I need it. If it did that then I wouldn't care two flips.  That's one of the main reasons I'm for universal healthcare.. Tax me the equivalent of what insurance costs me.. i dont' care.. just take care of my medical expenses when I have them so I don't have to worry about it..

I'm wondering what criteria you would have to meet to be eligible for a bariatric procedure under a universal healthcare system.. Sounds like an HMO to me. I think the fact that its free to everyone would have some effect on eligibility to have a bariatric procedure.. What have you found in your research Chris regarding this?

I haven't done a lot of research about bariatric surgery in countries that have a universal or national healthcare system.  However, I do know that the requirements to undergo surgery are very similar if not identical.   40+ BMI or 35-40 BMI with co-morbs is the norm for acceptance in the UK.  The UK has universal healthcare under the name of National Health Service.  There are actually 2 or 3 other healthcare systems in the UK that are universal. However, the NHS provides majority of the medical services. I pasted some URLs below that will explain more about obesity, WLS, and NHS.  I don't get the feeling that anyone 'needing' WLS gets denied in the UK.  I don't know if it's 100% paid for or not though. Moreover there are many countries who have a universal healthcare system. When the 'numbers' are crunched those countries that have a UH system come out on the top of the list as most healthy society. The USA falls down around the high 30's depending on the study. I think Italy is number 1..   The polls are uneven though.. Because countries that have UH have a MUCH higher rate of citizens that go to the hospital vs the USA and other countries that don't have UH. That's pretty impressive to say that the UH countries rank higher even though less people in the US see a doctor on a regular basis.  Many argue that healthcare is higher quality in the US vs the UK.. I disagree.  Go see Sicko, the movie for a good overview of our problems with healthcare in the US. I haven't seen it yet but I understand it's a real eye-opener. As far as UH being free, I don't believe it is.  Haven't done much research on this but I think it would be paid for by all of the citizens.. Kind of like we pay roadway tax or sales tax.  Good topic for research though. NHS/UH in UK Links: http://www.obesitysurgery.org.uk/ http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Obesity/Pages/Causes.aspx?url=P ages/What-is-it.aspx http://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/CG43 http://www.bmiweightloss.co.uk/bmi_weightloss.cfm UH in the USA: http://www.amsa.org/uhc/ UH vs non-UH: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care

Here's the guidelines for acceptance under NHS in the UK. NICE clinical guideline 43

Obesity: recommendations for the NHS

25

Management of overweight and

obesity in adults

Surgery

œ Consider surgery for people with severe obesity if:

– they have a BMI of 40 kg/m2 or more, or between 35 kg/m2 and 40 kg/m2 and other

significant disease (for example, type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure) that could be improved

if they lost weight

– all appropriate non-surgical measures have failed to achieve or maintain adequate clinically

beneficial weight loss for at least 6 months

– they are receiving or will receive intensive specialist management

– they are generally fit for anaesthesia and surgery

– they commit to the need for long-term follow-up.

œ Consider surgery as a first-line option for adults with a BMI of more than 50 kg/m2 in whom

surgical intervention is considered appropriate; consider orlistat or sibutramine before surgery if

the waiting time is long.

When to consider surgery

œ The hospital specialist or surgeon should discuss in detail with the person (and their family if

appropriate) the potential benefits, long-term implications and risks, including complications and

perioperative mortality.

œ Before performing surgery, carry out a comprehensive assessment of any psychological or clinical

factors that could affect adherence to postoperative care needs, such as changes to diet.

œ Make the choice of intervention jointly with the person, taking into account:

– the degree of obesity

– comorbidities

– evidence on effectiveness and long-term effects

– the facilities and equipment available

– the experience of the surgeon who would perform the operation.

First off I have to say I could move to the UK and get on the waiting list as my husband is a UK citizen - but I am so terrified of the NHS that I would not choose that option.  I am clearly biased.  But really, I just want to point out that simply because they say they cover the surgery does not mean someone would get it. All this and average folks pay about 30 percent of their income in taxes....  that is where their insurance premiums are paid. (not to mention sales taxes, tv taxes, alchohol and tobacco taxes and gas taxes that make our fuel look CHEAP) here is some more info for you.  It is pretty recent..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/5198150.stm here are some interesting lines from the article.... "The Department of Health said staffing had been increased, but local health bodies decided on patient priorities. " "But a patient group has said some areas have had to close their lists to patients with a BMI of less than 60. " "He said that, while the UK has 70 specially trained doctors in the field, only about half of them regularly carry out surgery. " ""The NHS is failing people because our job is to provide care and the supply of care is woeful.

"There are tens of thousands of people who would benefit from this sort of surgery, but are not getting it either because they are not aware of it, their surgeons are not aware of it or they do not meet the criteria." " And from this site - http://www.bospa.org/Information.aspx?Page=13 "Patients who wish to proceed with obesity surgery may be disappointed to then find that they are on a 2–3 year NHS waiting list." "In most PCTs each patient for whom surgery is proposed is still considered and approved on a case–by–case basis, usually by a committee called a 'Limited Intervention Panel' or an 'Exceptional Treatments Panel'.

My only complaint about universal healthcare is the waiting list.  In contrast, the US would have this same waiting list if insurance companies would cover more and offer cheaper premiums.  It all amounts to the fact that there aren't enough doctors to go around. We have even less doctors here in the states but we also have far less people seeing those doctors so there isn't much of a wait.  You really have to look at the numbers at a whole to see the differences between the systems.  Longer wait...but more people get the medical attention they need... Lifespans are increased by 5% or more.  There's tons of numbers to look at but in the end it comes down to a personal preference I imagine.

I pay 29.5% in taxes between Fed Withholdng, Fed MED/EE, Fed OASDI/EE , and NC Withholdng.   If we had UH the Fed MED/EE would go away and be replaced with UH tax.  In addition to taxes, 3.1% of my pay goes to medical, dental, vision and life insurance for my wife and I. Additionally I have to pay doctor bills where the insurance would not cover certain items as simple as PCP visits as well as medications. I would estimate that an additional 3.9% of my pay goes to extra doctor bills and meds. (About $2800 per year in additional medical expenses for my family.) So I'm paying 36.5% in taxes, benefits and additional medical care....  I'll GLADLY pay for UH instead of private/group insurance anyday. I may have to wait longer but at least I'll be covered!!!!  At the bare minimum I won't have to pay for trivial doctor visits in addition to my insurance anymore. I of course pay all the other taxes like sales tax, gas tax, alcohol, etc as well, but I'm not counting those. Fuel tax between our two countries is irrelevant to this topic. UH will not drive up fuel costs. In fact, I'm pretty sure the amount of cash our government pays out for healthcare will decrease with UH. There is no hope for the gas tax though! lol In summary, it is like I said before, there are many caveats to UH but the benefits still far outweigh the cons.. in my opinion.

Chris, I really know how you feel our Inc sounds just like yours, wont cover anything for weight loss, those exclusions really stink dont they? I now go to Weigh****chers and they dont even help with it.,  Delilah

Chris, You might want to talk to Human Resources once you're hired to see if the company would add a rider to their insurance to include Bariatric services.  Many employers actually have this feature taken out of their insurance policies to make it cheaper for their and your premiums.  As you said, if you bought private insurance it would be more expensive with Bariatric services added, this is the same when getting insurance through your employer.  Not to side with insurance companies, but I'm learning that it is actually the company you work for that can add or have this item excluded.   Melinda