Challenging "Abstinence"

Jupiter6
on 5/21/07 5:42 am - Near Media, Pa- South of Philly, NJ

OA apparently defines abstinence as "the action of refraining from compulsive eating." Mmkay. And the word has the parsimonious ring of "virtue"as well. Hey, cool--- it's nice to feel special. My question is this: on days that you go out and blow a wad of fat and calories on fast food, can you, in OA terms, still call those "abstinent" days? What is it at those times that one is abstaining from? Is it still abstaining if you wanted four sandwiches and ate two? What about if you wanted a side of beef and settled for a greasy cheesesteak? Is that abstaining? We all know what "abstinence" means in a sexual context. Can a girl call herself "abstinent" if she wants to doink an entire football team and settles for the defensive line, then? I like the English language, but some uses of it rub me the wrong way. -S.

"Oh sweet and sour Jesus, that is GOOD!" - Stephen Colbert Lap RNY 7/07-- Lap Gallbladder 5/08--
     Emergency Bowel Repair 6/08 -Dr. Meilahn, Temple U.   Upper and Lower Bleph/Lower Face Lift
     12/08
     Fraxel Repair 2/09-- Lower Bleph Re-Do 5/09  -Dr. Pontell, Media PA Mastopexy/Massive
     Brachioplasty/ Extended Abdominoplasty (plus Mons Lift and Upper Leg lift) / Hernia Repair
     6/24/09 ---Butt Lift and Lateral Thighplasty Scheduled 7/6/10 - Dr. Ivor Kaplan VA Beach
     Total Cost: $33,500   Start wt: 368   RNY wt: 300 Goal wt: 150   Current wt: 148.2 BMI: 24.7

andy113
on 5/21/07 6:02 am - Non-Op, SC

the concept of abstinence is just one of many problems that researchers have run into when trying to apply the addiction model to the conceptualization of eating disorders. most of the research does not support this model as legitimate - its more of a layperson concept that fits with the AA model, which, while not flawless, is generally recognized as an important aspect of a successful treatment plan for addiction. obviously, you can't abstain from eating. and trying to define what binge eating is is very subjective - what does it mean to eat a "larger than normal" amount of food in a "short amount" of time? the problems in definition is one of the reasons there is controversy over whether or not binge eating disorder deserves to be a diagnosis in the DSM at all. most say the key aspect of compulsive overeating/binge eating is the sense of a "loss of control" over the behavior (also a very subjective concept). i don't claim to know much at all about OA but it seems like OA has taken on that concept - as long as you are not eating with a "loss of control" then its okay. you are right to question the framework if it doesn't make sense to you - again, people have to find what works for them and many find the OA concept helpful - so power to them. i know it would not work at all for me because in the end, for me, its a calories in, calories out thing. i know some who say that OA is a good place for people to start if they are not ready to start a regimented nutrition/exercise program. plus the support of a group (in general) IS known to be a VERY important aspect of long term weight loss. there is a saying - most addictions, you lock the tiger up and throw away the key. with disordered eating, you lock the tiger up but then take it for a walk three times a day.

Jupiter6
on 5/21/07 6:05 am, edited 5/21/07 6:06 am - Near Media, Pa- South of Philly, NJ

RNY on 07/16/07

A stellar and contemplative reply. Thanks! In a sense, then, OA could be used to justify your actions if you are still not ready to commit to a lifestyle where you eat only those calories which you can reasonably expend?

"Oh sweet and sour Jesus, that is GOOD!" - Stephen Colbert Lap RNY 7/07-- Lap Gallbladder 5/08--
     Emergency Bowel Repair 6/08 -Dr. Meilahn, Temple U.   Upper and Lower Bleph/Lower Face Lift
     12/08
     Fraxel Repair 2/09-- Lower Bleph Re-Do 5/09  -Dr. Pontell, Media PA Mastopexy/Massive
     Brachioplasty/ Extended Abdominoplasty (plus Mons Lift and Upper Leg lift) / Hernia Repair
     6/24/09 ---Butt Lift and Lateral Thighplasty Scheduled 7/6/10 - Dr. Ivor Kaplan VA Beach
     Total Cost: $33,500   Start wt: 368   RNY wt: 300 Goal wt: 150   Current wt: 148.2 BMI: 24.7

andy113
on 5/21/07 9:49 am - Non-Op, SC

personally, i think it can be used for a justification. but a lot of people have that problem with 12 step programs - by surrendering to your "higher power" and admitting powerlessness over a behavior -is there room for personal responsibility?

Jupiter6
on 5/21/07 10:34 am - Near Media, Pa- South of Philly, NJ

RNY on 07/16/07

Oooph. Interesting "food" for thought!

"Oh sweet and sour Jesus, that is GOOD!" - Stephen Colbert Lap RNY 7/07-- Lap Gallbladder 5/08--
     Emergency Bowel Repair 6/08 -Dr. Meilahn, Temple U.   Upper and Lower Bleph/Lower Face Lift
     12/08
     Fraxel Repair 2/09-- Lower Bleph Re-Do 5/09  -Dr. Pontell, Media PA Mastopexy/Massive
     Brachioplasty/ Extended Abdominoplasty (plus Mons Lift and Upper Leg lift) / Hernia Repair
     6/24/09 ---Butt Lift and Lateral Thighplasty Scheduled 7/6/10 - Dr. Ivor Kaplan VA Beach
     Total Cost: $33,500   Start wt: 368   RNY wt: 300 Goal wt: 150   Current wt: 148.2 BMI: 24.7

Neecee O.
on 5/22/07 12:21 am - CA

As for personal responsibility in OA/AA, that comes after there is an established acceptance that YOU are not able to do this left to your own devices. You are voluntarily stripped of your controlling ways to get humble. It's hard to get this, I realize. I actually went to OA only after going to Al-Anon as an adult child of an alcoholic and married to a freak who was also a drunk. Accepting that for some people, drinking is a disease is a BIG step. Like you, my gut instinct on that is...bull**** Interstingly enuf, not everyone who drinks belongs in AA, not everyone who eats compusivley belongs in OA.

Jupiter6
on 5/22/07 1:25 am - Near Media, Pa- South of Philly, NJ

RNY on 07/16/07

So if you are an atheist or you don't like group meetings, this means you are damned to be fat forever? Seems kinda harsh.

"Oh sweet and sour Jesus, that is GOOD!" - Stephen Colbert Lap RNY 7/07-- Lap Gallbladder 5/08--
     Emergency Bowel Repair 6/08 -Dr. Meilahn, Temple U.   Upper and Lower Bleph/Lower Face Lift
     12/08
     Fraxel Repair 2/09-- Lower Bleph Re-Do 5/09  -Dr. Pontell, Media PA Mastopexy/Massive
     Brachioplasty/ Extended Abdominoplasty (plus Mons Lift and Upper Leg lift) / Hernia Repair
     6/24/09 ---Butt Lift and Lateral Thighplasty Scheduled 7/6/10 - Dr. Ivor Kaplan VA Beach
     Total Cost: $33,500   Start wt: 368   RNY wt: 300 Goal wt: 150   Current wt: 148.2 BMI: 24.7

BFrench
on 5/22/07 1:37 am

No, it just means that OA is not going to work for you. Just like Neecee said, "not everyone who drinks belongs in AA, not everyone who eats compusivley belongs in OA."

Jupiter6
on 5/22/07 1:41 am - Near Media, Pa- South of Philly, NJ

RNY on 07/16/07

Got it. Thanks!

"Oh sweet and sour Jesus, that is GOOD!" - Stephen Colbert Lap RNY 7/07-- Lap Gallbladder 5/08--
     Emergency Bowel Repair 6/08 -Dr. Meilahn, Temple U.   Upper and Lower Bleph/Lower Face Lift
     12/08
     Fraxel Repair 2/09-- Lower Bleph Re-Do 5/09  -Dr. Pontell, Media PA Mastopexy/Massive
     Brachioplasty/ Extended Abdominoplasty (plus Mons Lift and Upper Leg lift) / Hernia Repair
     6/24/09 ---Butt Lift and Lateral Thighplasty Scheduled 7/6/10 - Dr. Ivor Kaplan VA Beach
     Total Cost: $33,500   Start wt: 368   RNY wt: 300 Goal wt: 150   Current wt: 148.2 BMI: 24.7

Neecee O.
on 5/21/07 6:59 am - CA

Really thoughtful Andy. I went to OA for 4 years, after displaying very UN-subjective insane patterns of eating WAY too much. The basic truth was I was terrified of food, so it was back to square one for me. IMO, it was re-teaching myself to eat. I could not think about eating healthy...I did not know how to eat period.

For someone who feels a little upset cuz they just ate too much today at all three meals, it's overkill. OA does not pretend to be a weight loss program. It is about helping a person with compulsions with food. Only YOU can decide if this is you. It was me! Now I have graduated from OA, but will I ever be healed? i cannot pretend that I am. I know where I was.

Challenging "Abstinence"

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Challenging "Abstinence"