Cold War: Non-op vs Op

of course WLS makes weight loss a heck of a lot easier. i think every person who has had WLS would have to admit to that - otherwise why would anyone do that? i do feel that many people get WLS who have not given the diet and execrcise thing a REAL shot. no, i'm not talking 2 weeks of atkins or a 2 months of slim-fast, but a sustainable, healthy program that includes diet, exercise and therapy. to many people are getting it too easily - even kids - and that just really scares me. perhaps its okay being on the mental health side of things because people who never resolved the emotional reasons that they eat go on to develop other issues that do eventually bring them in to therapy. too many people think that life will be perfect if they were just thin - i think many who have WLS are devastated when it doesn't work out that way. we are guilty of it too - there have been MANY times where i have been offended by people who assumed i had surgery because i feel like it is an easier way out and to think that is invalidating of all my work. i was at a party with extended family recently where two of my cousins have had WLS - when other relatives were talking abou thow great they looked, i wanted to invalidate that and be like well they had surgery, so it was easy for them so it doesn't count - now that they're 8 months out and had all their plastic surgery, we'll see what happens to them (said with a hauty attitude). they are not good examples though because they still eat cake and candy and get sick and throw up and just don't care that they get sick. i woudl never say it doesn't take work to do WLS correctly.  but then deep down i'm jealous. i WISH that i could be happy and feel full eating half a cup of something or a protein shake. i WISH i could get down to the rediculous low weights that WLS people seems to get to - i can't imagine what it would be like to weigh 130, 140.  granted sometimes they look really sick and have likelong health issues, but at least they are thin.  i think maintenance would be a ton easier if i coudl just find someone to put a lapband in me - i have actually emailed with a few docs asking them about it. so yes i take pride in being a non-op, but i feel it would be so much easier for me and that i could be more secure about permanent weight loss if i'd had surgery. bottom line - its complicated. for both groups. there is this guy here named Tek who has some very interesting stuff about this concept in his profile - i looked for him but couldn't find it. he has a picture of shrek for his avatar. if you see him around - read his profile....

I don't think it has to be an either/or paradigm. In January, I was in such horrible health and constant pain that I decided to start the program to have WLS. I had no reason to believe that I could lose an appreciable amount of weight fast enough to stem the tide of co-morbidities that was sucking me under and very seriously destroying me.  During the initial consultations, I learned that the best shot my surgeon and I have at a successful surgery is if I lose as much as I can before surgery. So I stepped up my efforts and my non-operative weight loss, with one eye on the RNY I am in the program to prepare for. I have lost 33 pounds in a couple months. I didn't expect that kind of success. I do not consider myself dieting-- I eat plenty of good tasting food and feel well most of the time.  I can eat this way for life, and I know I will have to. So one camp'd say, "Then DON'T have the surgery!" Problem is, while I am feeling some lessening of the co-morbs, it may not be happening fast enough with non-op loss. At this rate, it would take many years to reach a weight that would be best for me-- and that may not be enough. For this reason-- I intend to continue with my non-op/pre-op plan. If I get a date, and believe that it would be the best choice for me to have the RNY at that time, that is what I will do. If I believe that I can do it on my own, and be satisfied with my results, I will forgo the bypass and continue the meal/exercise plan I am doing now. If I do have the bypass, I will have benefitted from shrinking my liver and lessening my apnea, and when I have lost to goal, will stay on the meal/exercise plan I am using now, for life.

Tek was kicked off of OH permanently a good while back for some offensive comments he made on the main board. There was a big ol' drama about it. I never responded to any of his posts but found him interesting. Candy

Do you remember any of his views?  He seems to be a popular individual. I'd love to hear more about him. 

I'm not sure this is a right/wrong issue! Certainly emotional, as you have found out. to say either way is easier...or harder...not exactly cut and dried, either. Major surgery, easy?????  Rerouting a gut, easy?????? I completely support wls, because of the **** poor statistics that doing it on your own presents.  1-5% of people keep off any amount of weight after five years???  RU kidding me???

WLS shows off more like 25% sustained weight loss in the long run.

Let the numbers do the talking here. I very much beleive that once you are age 40 and over 40 bmi, the chances that you will lose that weight on your own are nearly dead. For many people, how can they ever succeed when they can't move? It's a circular argument.

Everyone wants to justify their situation, regardless.

I completely support WLS as well.  I would LOVE to have WLS.  I don't think there is a right or wrong choice either. I know I can do it with it and I know I can do it without it.  I just think it's much easier to do it with WLS.  I already feel like giving up now but I think with WLS I wouldn't feel that way. Perhaps I couldn't give up. :)   All in all I think the hositilities that each decision inflicts upon the other is uncalled for.  Don't hate me because I think WLS is the easy way out and I won't hate you for thinking people can't lose weight without WLS. Know what I mean? And why the statistics??  Does the surgery really help control absorption and intake long-term??  Is it that the people who have WLS are more devoted to their success, more disciplined?  I agree with you on the over 40 thing.  Most of the people in my tops chapter are over 40 and they work their arses off to lose 30 lbs in 1 stinking year.  Just not fair.

of course there are exceptions with health issues if you do need to lose fast. my issue is more with the "lightweighs" who have surgery at 220 and have no other complications and have never dieted. i went to a WLS seminar a few years ago with then-boyfriend who was looking into surgery. what upset me was that the directors/doctors of duke WLS center are telling a huge room of desparately obese people that surgery IS the ONLY way to successfullly lose weight. i think people cling to that and it is self-defeating and a self-fulfilling prophecy. the statistics are crappy because of all the reasons we know we have an obesity problems. too much food, bad food, no exercise, convenient everything, american oversizing, very good advertising etc. POOR EDUCATION!!! peoplenever learn what to eat, how to eat to maintain weight. and if you look at it carefully, the stats on WLS are better but not perfect either. most people keep off about 60% of their excess weight. usually they lose down way low and kind of bounce back. your window of opportunity with WLS is 18 months. after that, its pretty dang hard. within a few years, your stomach restretches and you can eat the same amount as you did before. the point of WLS is to FORCE you into a behavior change and by the time you can work around the sirigical intervention, then hopefully you have adapted to the heathy eating habits. i do know several people who lost a lot with WLS and then gained a lot of weight back. go check out the "failed WLS" or "revisions" or "complications" forum.

I actually agree with you on this 100%, Andrea.  If a person does not begin to wrestle with the why's of overeating and ways to combat it, I'm not so sure wls is the ticket.  I know it isn't. I must say i cringe when I read of teens getting wls. I really think if after all else fails and a person is still pretty fat by age 40, time to get a reality check. It is time for desparate measures.  Let's face it, the stats for wls conversely tell us 75% of people fail at it (regain), so that is the indicator there. In a sense, it is like giving poor people a million dollars without teaching them how to make it grow and work for them. WLS is extreme, make no mistake. I am very intrigued by the vagus nerve stimulator I read of - kind of a lapband but not a pouch style thing - it sends electric impulses to the brain to tell you are full.  interesting.

Okay you knew I would have to respond on this one! First of all YES WLS does make it easier to lose weight. I am very grateful for having the surgery and would do it again tomorrow although I fight with the very same eating demons as before surgery. I started at 263 pounds and had a weight problem since the age of 12 when I moved in with my great grandmother who solved everything with food(and still does). Second of all I stuggled with sweets and binge eating pre op and thought the surgery would be a cure all for that but boy was I wrong. Unfortunately I only dumped very mildly to begin with and now nothing, and sometimes still find myself binging(at least as much as I can hold at one time). I can eat very much like a normal person but will never be able to eat as much as before. Its not how much you consume at one meal that will put the weight back on its the type of foods you eat and how often you eat. It takes about 20-30 minutes for food to clear out of the pouch so if you are eating every so often the weight will find you again. Take a walk over to the grads board, there is a post or two daily of how people are gaining back weight. The surgery is definately a tool. IMO, maintaining is a hell of a lot harder than losing. I have learned a few tactics along the way to help me with the eating demons and have to practice these things on a daily basis and some of them are(write down every morsel that goes into my mouth, plan what I am going to eat, eat at the same times everyday, keep the house purged of forbidden foods, drink 80-100 ounces of water everyday, and so on).  I would have never lost 120 pounds on my own and I was considered a light weight. I did not have very many co morbidites besides hypothyroidism so I do think I am blessed to have the surgery.  So anyways Yes it does help with weight loss in the beginning but you DO have to change your lifestyle and work the tool in order for you to sustain any loss. Candy

I would have the surgery in a heartbeat if I could find a way to afford it. I have been struggling with my weight for over16 years now, with very little results. And its not that I think wls is a cure-all for my weight problems, its because I think that if I was forced to eat less, taught how to eat healthy, and had all the 'bad' side affects such as dumping when I ate bad food, I could reach my goal and maintain. I know it would be hard, But I have been trying the non-surgical route for sooo long and feel like I'm sinking in quicksand. Wls isn't any easier, but I would lose a whole lot faster, and maybe actully get to see what its like to be able to run and play with my daughter and have the energy to keep up with her. JMO.