Cold War: Non-op vs Op

Let me first start off by saying it is NOT my intention to hurt anyones feelings or start a fight here.  I simply want to know what other people think about this subject and why they feel that way. I've posted on a few op boards in reply to people who are thinking about having surgery but aren't sure if they've tried hard enough on their own or not.  I've gotten some pretty abrasive replies from those who have chosen WLS. Some have even told me I offended them! ME?? It seems there's some tension there between those who have chosen to do it without and those with.  I don't feel like I was trying to be offensive, only that I was trying to provide assistance to other troubled souls torn between the two decisions. Simply trying to share my experience with them so that they might get closer to a decision.  Anyways, long story short I tend to view the side-affects of WLS as blessings. Things such as dumping and getting sick from overeating.  It may have been this view that some found offensive. It's not offensive, it's how I feel, not how they feel. (Their finding it offensive offended me because they didn't want me to have my own opinion! Ok, enough ranting there.) Not that getting sick feels wonderful or that there isn't tons of pain and emotional stress from WLS.  Everyone knows that successful WLS patients had to change their lifestyles and eating habits otherwise they wouldn't have been successful long term. Those who are 1 year or more post op experience some of the same struggles we do, but they had the WLS tool to help them or maybe even force them to change the short term in order to commit long term. It's not that way for us. We have to do it through sheer self-discipline, will power, trial and error, and whatever else we all go through.  It is because of this that I feel like non-oppers have a longer, more difficult journey.  I've read several posts from people on this board about how they rejected WLS and now had to do it the hard way. Is it really wrong for me to say that I believe having WLS makes weigh-loss easier??? Obviously others feel like I do.   How do you feel? 

I've read a lot on the lap-band MB and my take on it is this.  If you say that they could have lost weight without the surgery people get upset and say that NO they could not and that is why they got the lap band, or other wls.  If you say their WLS is the only reason they lost weight, people get upset and say NO, it is just a tool and they have had to work darn hard to get to where they are.  No matter what you post, you run the risk of offending someone.  My personal feeling is that if WLS doesn't make weight loss easier, then what is the point? 

Lol, that's exactly how I feel about it.  Man I wish I could sum things up like you! lol

Hey thanks.  My professors at Bible college used to say I had a "succinct style"   I had to look it up at the time to see if that was a good comment or not.  lol.  When they have dozens or hundreds of papers to grade, succinct was definitely good. : )

Here's the opinion of someone recently banded (Moi):

Truth is, yes, it does make it easier as far as success is concerned.  We (WLS people) have more chances of successful weigh in's then people without WLS because we're given this different system to work with, and the system allows faster, more prominent results.  But we do have to work just as hard.  Here's what I mean:

Two people are running a race.  Let's go for the snail and rabbit act.  The snail and rabbit both cross the finish line.  Both ran the same amount but the rabbit got there a helluva lot faster.  Does that mean the rabbit didn't have to work as hard?  No.  But it was faster and easier for the rabbit to make it to that finish line.  But the same amount of effort was put into both journies.  See what I mean?

Right now, I'm dealing with bull**** I never had to deal with before I got banded.  Having a protein shake in the morning causes me to feel so full that I get stabbing pains through my back.  What's up with that?  That's something you guys don't have to deal with.  I can't eat more than two scrambled eggs without feeling sick.  What's up with that?  I can't drink and eat at the same time and can't drin****il an hour after a meal.  That's so annoying.

There are downfalls to both "methods".  But the truth is that yeah, WLS does cause for a more successful path.  As you said - if it didn't, there would be no point to the surgery.  But the same amount of effort goes into it - it's just DIFFERENT effort.

Do you find it offensive if I say that the things you find annoying I would consider blessings?  The only thing I would hate about WLS is the protein shakes. I despise those nasty things.  That's a small sacrifice to me though, I'd gladly drink the shakes to have the other benefits. I just think that because of these things WLS is easier.  It's almost like you can't screw up, know what I mean?  At least not for the first little while anyway. I think the real conflict is me saying that WLS makes losing weight easier.  People don't like to hear that because of the pain and suffering they go through.  There's no doubt they work hard as hell, but like you said, so do non-ops. Not only is the effort different for both, so is the pain and suffering. I'm not sure either side really understands the other.  Except in your case, you've struggled with us! :) 

It doesn't offend me, no.  I've been fat my whole life and have struggled with every diet under the sun, thousands of dollars on personal trainers, and plenty of time in therapists office.  The only thing that gets offensive is when people ignore the fact that WLS is still hard.  The only thing we get as a positive outcome is FASTER, more DEFINITE results.  That's it.  We still have to eat right, we can't use our 1 cup of food allotment on slamming back oreo's.  We need to exercise too.  It's all the same.  We're going to gain weight just like you guys if we eat a cup of cheesecake instead of protein and veggies. 

I'm like Andrea with the jealousy thing.  See I don't crave cheesecake and oreos and all that stuff. I crave full meals and lots of them.  I mean of course I crave the occasional butterfinger but I've never been able to gorge myself on more than 2 or so!   I think I'm jealous of WLSers because they can only eat a cup or very little whereas I can sit down and eat 16 cups without blinking.  So I think WLS would be easier for me because it's so restrictive. Yeah sure it's gonna hurt like hell and it won't be easy fighting the emotional hunger and all of that stuff. It's definitely gonna be hard but for whatever reason all of that seems worth it and still easier.  Go figure eh?  What I know and what I feel are two different things I suppose... So how's the band going?  What other pains or complications are you experiencing?  Do you get sick if you eat too much?

I don't get sick if I eat too much, but you easily reach that pain of Thanksgiving stuffed.  And it's a terrible pain where you're teetering on the vomit or not fence.  The gas pain is horrible; You can't just burp anymore because the gas has to travel from the big pouch through the little hole then through the little pouch.  Because you can't eat so much you have to push protein in anywhere you can (or you start to lose your hair). You know that feeling you get when you swallow something wrong and it's a sharp pain you get through your back, like you just swallowed the great pyramid?  That feeling comes about a lot and for no reason.  It's not fun so far and I've often asked myself "Why did I do this?"

Thanks for being so descriptive!  I know what you're talking about.  That crap does hurt!  Just gotta keep reminding yourself that the pain is worth the ...loss?  :)  I wonder if there is some way to inject protein?  lol  That would be nice! I hate the shakes and I honestly thing that'd be the worst part of it all for me.  I'm a man, men don't feel pain!!  (-fLEx-)  heheh