Failed WLS? or not doing what your suppose to?

I was just looking around at the different forums and I ran acroos the complication one and failed. I read some of the stories and to me it sounds like some people are not doing what they should be or should of done in the first place. I am in no way saying what they are claiming is false. I know there are risks to every surgery and what might work out good for one person might not for the next. But some of the medical problems people were having could be just because they have them whether it is genetics or it was late onset and just happened to be after the wls. Because the majority of the problems started way way way after the surgery itself. I also think it could be mental like depression ans such getting the worse of them. I know a lady that had it done and had problems, she even had to have a kidney removed she almost died. But she was having her husband run to 7-11 to get slurpees and eating ice cream hot dogs and crap like that. So I wonder why she got sick.I read where people did not get the dumping syndrom from sugar and sweets, well my question is how would they even know if they would dum*****t? YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSE TO EAT THAT CRAP TO BEGIN WITH, THAT IS WHY YOU HAD THE SURGERY IN THE FIRST PLACE! I know that there are real big risks with this surgery but when somone says I am a wls failure How can you be a failure when a guarantee does not come with this surgery and it is how you work it too. I am sorry i had to vent. Hope all is well. Tanya

Tanya - Many people will dump on healthy foods, so making a blanket statement/question: "well my question is how would they even know if they would dum*****t" is irrelevent. My first dump was close to right out of surgery and I was told I could have a few saltines and yogurt. The saltines immediately made me dump. Yes, I know it's a carb. Yes, I know it's not what you are supposed to base your diet on, but it was what my surgeon recommended that would be easy to get down right after surgery and the food options available to me were limited since I was in Mexico. I have also dumped on ground chicken and foods that had too much fat for my body at the time. Those things have eased over time, and now I generally only dump on things that are bad for me. The other issue here is sainthood. I get really wary of people coming down on others for eating something they aren't supposed to. There are a few people who will be perfect and not put one bad thing to their lips. The majority will try something they shouldn't eat. The plain fact of the matter is that most of us have a problem denying ourselves a comfort food from time to time. If we didn't, we wouldn't be fat. And if we could live the rest of our lives without these things, we wouldn't need the surgery. Most people will fall into a little complacency over time and will sample or eat things they shouldn't eat. But I have to say, people have to live their lives. And you have to be responsible for what you put in your mouth. Okay - so you had a corn dog. That isn't going to do you in. If you have a corn dog or fast food every day, it will. And this is where the personal responsibility for failure comes in. With this surgery we should be able to eat small quantities of fairly normal food and maintain the majority of our weight loss. Like anything, it still takes effort. If I could cook every meal for myself and not rely on packaged dinners or fast food occasionally, I wouldn't have a problem dieting. But many people have complicated lives and some of us work massive amounts of overtime and simply must rely on Taco Bell once in awhile. Making wise choices when possible and just having a taste of something sinful is how I make it work. But what works for me may not work for others. I am not a saint, and I rather bristle at the concept that one must be a saint in order to make this work. I didn't have this surgery to gain all my weight back. But I also didn't have it thinking that I would live my life with an exile from food. I just wanted to be normal. I wanted desperately to sit down to lunch with a little sandwich, a small bag of chips and perhaps a little fruit and be satisfied. I could never feel full or satisfied with that in the past. I have not lost everything I have wanted to lose. I am about 30 lbs short of my goal, but even though I'm 2 years out, I still intend on losing it. I can gain weight very easily if I let myself and I will sometimes bounce around 5 lbs because I've eaten something I shouldn't. The point is that I watch it and don't let it go beyond that, and I have to exert just a little bit of effort to get back down there, whereas before it as a monumental task. Good emotional stability is what we are talking about here in the long run. We aren't talking about eating all the foods that you shouldn't eat. We are talking about why someone feels compelled to eat those foods. And that is where you find that line that separates the obese who just had too large of an appetite and needed help with surgery from those who are obese and are eating out of emotion. And in my opinion, the psych evals they do on people here in the states are woefully inadequate at weeding through this. Some people do have legit challenges from their surgery that they had no hand in playing. I myself started out right from the get-go with a 4 oz. pouch. Twice to 4 times the size of everyone else's. Think it might have compromised my weight loss? Oh yes indeed it did. Because when I was eating 800 calories, everyone else was eating 400. But it still works for me because I realize the effort I have to add to it. Everyone has their own path to forge to make it work. Some people will make it work by allowing themselves a piece of candy every day. Some people will make it work by never touching their lips to anything off limits and exercising the day away. But when people fall into extremes either way, they are doing so out of emotional instability. This is why I believe support groups and counseling are desperately important for folks who are going to do this. Some will be fine without it, but many folks need to work through this stuff in order to round out the whole process. So try not to be so hard on these folks. They may need a wake up call, but balancing their extreme with another absolute extreme is counterproductive. They won't hear the logic in it - they will only see a finger being pointed at them telling them that once again they are worthless and at fault for all their problems. Maybe they need a different approach. Dina

Very good question. I had the same questions myself prior to surgery. I remember hearing Carnie Wilson telling how she got some cheesecake stuck in her throat/stoma and it hurt. This was at about 9 months out... maybe even 6 months out... I was shocked. I thought "She's not suppose to be EATING that stuff!" May be true, but remember, this surgery is on our tummy not our heads, brain, or that very sensitive part of our receptors called our tongue. Believe me, your mouth will continue to water after the surgery and it isn't going to stop. It may slow down in the beginning, but eventually it will catch up when you are healed. I cater. I stayed away from baking for a long while after WLS. I have modified my recipes and more sensitive to diabetic needs and the market for "sugar free" desserts. I can't quite get that far with a wedding cake and still experimenting with choices... I used to, pardon the expression, chew and spit, but now I find I am swallowing the icing or cake and I can tell the pounds are rushing away as they used to and I know why. During the early stages of post-op I made it a point to try to drink milk. I could live without chocolate, but I was going to train my body to accept milk and the high sugar content it contained... I went slow. Now, if I follow the rules for 4 days, eat small portions consistently, I cannot drink more than 6 ounces of milk on an empty stomach and not feel some consequence. But if I eat a large portion, wait, eat some more, wait and eat some more, I can drink about a 16 ounces and only feel it a little later. That is an example of "eating around your pouch." I know how it works now, through experimentation, and feel I have matured with the knowledge. I DON"T WANT TO EAT AROUND MY POUCH. I want it to work for me for the rest of my life. KNowing how to support it, what to avoid and how to avoid it helps me be a better patient. post-op from Mexico with no follow up care can be self-sabatoging if not careful. I think people either stop being mindful, stop being held accountable, not educated, or else t hey simply become careless. I noticed during about months 5-8 I should have taken better care to keep my meals tiny. TINY TINY TINY and I think it would help me now that i am 12 months post op. About month 9 and 10 I found it hard to meet my monthly goal because I was already eating about a cup and 1/4 at every meal. And I was eating about 4.5 cups of food a day. That's a lot of calories if you still have a lot of weight to lose and your body isn't obese anymore. your bmr is reduced as your bmi is reduced... so keep that in mind. We didn't become obeses because we were hungry. We became obese because we overate!

Tanya, if I never ate that crap (both volume and sweets) I wouldn't have needed the surgery in the first place. Having the surgery didn't make me perfect. What the surgery did do was reduce the volume I can eat at a time substantially. Also, if I really load up on the sugars, I get an upset stomach - but never so bad that I actually barf. So, why did I get the surgery if I wasn't going to be perfect. Well, I've lost 120 pounds. I plan to lose 50 more. However, even if I didn't - it was the right choice for me. I eat far less than I've ever eaten in my life - except on a liquid diet (e.g. Optifast). I am making lifestyle changes. I was active before surgery, I'm far more active now. I eat more of the right things are far, far, far less of the bad things. I also am trying moderation. A bite or two of a sweet - not three to six pieces of cake. A half a chicken thigh, not six of them. It has been 10 months - and this surgery is only a tool. It still takes us using this tool to make good choices for ourselves. -Pam 320/199/150

You know I did not mean to offend anyone. Sorry if I did. I know a lot of people that have had the surgery. I work for a dr. so I am around alot of patients that have had the wls.I just know that the people that did not follow the diet got very ill. We ask them what are you eating? Well I had some chips, and I tried some birthday cake. I seen a lady carry candy in her purse I asked her what is that for well I eat it was her response. And to boot she wondered why she was not losing weight. I have gone to all the nutrition classes with my mom so I know pretty much at what stages you should be eating what if tolerated. I understand why we get obese in the first place. That is why we have the wls. I feel it it used to help us make better choices food wise for ourselves and retrain our thinking and habits. All I was saying is not all the things that happen to you medicaly are due to the wls, and you have to be responisible for changing your eating that is all. I know it is not easy or we would not need the wls. Tanya

I see your points, Tanya, but still I think you are being too judgemental of others. I will sometimes have a few potato chips, but I don't have them every day. I tried cake about a year out and got incredibly sick off just a little bit. Took a long time before I wanted a "taste" of anything again. But then over 2 years out I had a small piece of carrot cake that I made for my husband's birthday. And I'll likely have something for my birthday as well. Because those are special occasions that are not things I consider a horrible thing to let down your guard for. As for the candy in the purse - you will find about 3 or 4 varieties of mints and gum in my purse right now, and I do buy candy sometimes, and I eat it. I don't advertise it because I don't want to open that door for someone who might have problems with it. But what I find for me is that I will buy candy but I won't eat it. After it sits in my purse for several months it's no good anyway, so it gets tossed. But sometimes I will have a hard candy, and sometimes I will have a carmel. The key is that I realize I can't eat a whole bag of this stuff like I used to. Thankfully I'd get sick as hell if I tried. But the point here is that we are not saints and some of us who are able to maintain and even lose a little more after they are a couple years out are eating some of the same things that those who are gaining back are eating. The key is that some are able to have control over the amounts of the bad stuff they eat while others aren't. This is where someone needs to come in and do a study. Because I think if they could figure out why some people have a compulsion to eat the wrong foods in large quantities after surgery you might find either a genetic abnormality or emotional disturbance that could be addressed. It's easy to say "well, duh...look what you are eating." But if you take and put those people in a support group full of people who are eating these things yet still maintaining, you might understand why they are confused. In my own support group there is a man who looked almost skeletal who admitted to not being able to avoid cookies and even downed a large ice cream shake (that DID make him quite sick) last summer. But he is thinner than me. And I know he didn't give up those things although he tries to limit them. Some can get away with it, some cannot. Dina

I think you're taking her post a bit too literally, and being a tad judgemental of her reaction too I agree COMPLETELY with her frustration a****ching those who got insurance to pay.... *consistently* doing things they shouldn't. That's the point... that it's intentional, not that it's just a moment of weakness or a favorite food... Almost every obese person can tell you about their own "trigger foods" etc... but those that eat consistently poor diet, that it's day after day after day, that's the heartbreaking part.... Sorry, but this is a FACT that is inevitable... a LIFESTYLE CHANGE is absolutely necessary to make this surgery a long term success, EVERY surgeon worth a nickel will tell this to his/her patients REPEATEDLY.... We're not talking perfection, we're talking about building and reinforcing positive habits more often than not... Those of us who would give absolutely anything to have the surgery, but still cannot get it because we don't have the option of self pay... are GOING to be shocked, and probably even hurt, seeing others who can get the tool... not using it even close to properly(NOT talking about weak moments, talking about HABITUAL bad eating). It's expected that those who are unable, will be alarmed by those who take this GIFT for granted... For clarity I've mentioned two example patients below: 1. Lap band pt who says to support group "I can eat as much as I want, as long as it's runny it'll go past the band and I can eat more at a buffet." 2. Pt who consistently eats balogna sandwiches on white bread (with tons of mayo) and kraft easy mac for lunch 3-4 times a week. Then same patient then eats a deep fried "chic fil-a" sandwich about 3 hrs later, and then even later in same day eats pop-tarts. This same patient (although 75 lbs down from pre surgery weight and is 5 yrs postop...) still has a BMI of 50+ and complains of being stuck on a plateau. It's very painful to see, when still 2 yrs later I cannot get the same surgery, and I believe in myself enough to know that I can succeed (defined for myself IMO by gaining active lifestyle and maintaining lost weight). There is a huge difference between occasional slip ups, and knowingly perpetuating bad eating habits. But I disagree with her on the Will Power thing... The difference between fat and skinny people is about immediate gratification... the desire to enjoy the taste, overshadows the desire to be healthy. I'm a nurse, and I have (IMO) a very strong sense of self discipline when it comes to work... I am *capable* of very strong Will Power... But for over 25 years, I have made a habit of self indulgence regarding food. A habit that I have repeatedly attempted to overcome, a habit that I now accept cannot be broken without physical AND PSYCHOLOGICAL intervention to restrict the type and amount of food I eat. Kat

Well I would like to weight in (no pun intended) on this topic. I have a mother who had weightloss surgery about 2 years ago. And she had her insurance pay for the procedure. She got all the mental evaluations and all the counseling but my mother makes me so angry sometimes. When I had this surgery (now maybe I think differently because I self-payed and am still paying for this surgery to this day) that this was my last shot and that I couldn't mess this up. My mother eats anything (and everything) she wants. I know that she eats less of it but why even go down that road? I don't know if I will dump with chocolate because I refuse to eat chocolate. I am not eating cheese cakes or any other fatty snacks because I got this to save my life. I have to mentally change my food intake as well as the amount. When I go to McDonalds I could eat anything on the menu but I chose to get a salad with grilled chicken because if it's hard now it's only going to get harder. My mother just told me she gained back 23 pounds and I am not surprised. She didn't seem that depressed by it but it would have devestated me if I gain back any weight not to mention 23 pounds. We must remember that our pouches are a tool and we should not abuse that tool or even pu**** to the limit. We need to have just as much control as anyone else. The difference between skinny people and fat people is will power. They have the will power to push away the chip bag or only take out one portion instead of eating the entire bag. It's time that we show some self control. Ronda