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Topic: RE: Increase Rate of Suicide after Gastric Bypass
I've finally taken the time to read your blog. It's interesting and it's your story. I really don't believe a lot of the statistical studies. However, it's hard to tell from the number of cases cited and the percentage of suicides just how bad the problem is.
I just assume that you had problems post-op that you are attributing to the RNY. The only problem with that is that you may have ended up with the same problem even if you had not had the RNY. There are many people who end up with heart problems after WLS and can't understand it even though they have lost a lot of weight. They fail to realize that they had stressed their hearts for years prior to the surgery. Similarly, we may have had mental problems prior to the surgery that weren't manifest until later.
That's not my problem. I've lived with the confusion of my manic-depression which was misdiagnosed as depression for about 10 years. It's hard for me to say when my mental problems began, but I can easily trace them back to 1971. By the way, I was skinny as a kid. I weighed 165 when I graduated HS and 175 when I graduated college in 1972. I was probably already a junk food junkie but my high metabolism along with loads of exercise helped keep my weight down. I was a runner and cyclist when it wasn't popular. Now I can't even walk around my block while using a rollator.
I do suggest that other people go look at your blog. Blogs do provide a way to address many people with your opinions without having to notify them individually. I'm just not ready to take that step. I am leery of trying new things and writing on a blog is too new to me. Heck, I'm losing confidence in doing things I used to think were easy. I wonder if rhe scientific journals have studies about people losing coping skills and other faculties following RNY.. I'm not kidding about this. I used to be able to do a lot more on a computer than I can do now. I used to be able to do my taxes ( or so I thought--I cost myself a few thousand dollars with my wrong calculations). I was never a risk taker and I'm even more timid now. However, it's probably because of the progressive nature of my manic-depression rather than because I'm post -op from RNY. But, then again, who knows?
I just assume that you had problems post-op that you are attributing to the RNY. The only problem with that is that you may have ended up with the same problem even if you had not had the RNY. There are many people who end up with heart problems after WLS and can't understand it even though they have lost a lot of weight. They fail to realize that they had stressed their hearts for years prior to the surgery. Similarly, we may have had mental problems prior to the surgery that weren't manifest until later.
That's not my problem. I've lived with the confusion of my manic-depression which was misdiagnosed as depression for about 10 years. It's hard for me to say when my mental problems began, but I can easily trace them back to 1971. By the way, I was skinny as a kid. I weighed 165 when I graduated HS and 175 when I graduated college in 1972. I was probably already a junk food junkie but my high metabolism along with loads of exercise helped keep my weight down. I was a runner and cyclist when it wasn't popular. Now I can't even walk around my block while using a rollator.
I do suggest that other people go look at your blog. Blogs do provide a way to address many people with your opinions without having to notify them individually. I'm just not ready to take that step. I am leery of trying new things and writing on a blog is too new to me. Heck, I'm losing confidence in doing things I used to think were easy. I wonder if rhe scientific journals have studies about people losing coping skills and other faculties following RNY.. I'm not kidding about this. I used to be able to do a lot more on a computer than I can do now. I used to be able to do my taxes ( or so I thought--I cost myself a few thousand dollars with my wrong calculations). I was never a risk taker and I'm even more timid now. However, it's probably because of the progressive nature of my manic-depression rather than because I'm post -op from RNY. But, then again, who knows?
Topic: RE: Increase Rate of Suicide after Gastric Bypass
I am a big supporter of WLS and think it saves many lives and improves the quality of lives for many. However, some may need more post-op care than the average patient, and perhaps much is yet to be known about the long-term. Glad to see you are doing so well.
Topic: RE: Increase Rate of Suicide after Gastric Bypass
I don't want to repeat myself, so you can look at my Latest Posts to see my recent comments regarding my manic-depression. In addition, I am a junk food junkie which I distinguish from having a problem with white flour and refined sugar products. White bread simply doesn't do anything for me and I usually order sandwiches without the bun.
However, when you refer to what you have observed on this site, I wonder what you mean by this site. Do you mean all of OH ? I've looked up the addictions forum in the past thinking it would talk about food addiction but it dealt primarily with alcohol and drug addictions. I never had either one of those but I am aware of people changing their addictions. I know one woman from when I use to go to OA transferred her addiction from junk food to exercise. She swam like a fish but she recognized that she had a problem.
You mention a problem with surgeons. However, with many of us, WLS has actually saved our lives. I weighed over 570 lbs when I first came to OH and my primary, my shrink, and my surgeon all agreed that I would probaly be dead within a year or two if I didn't have the surgery. That was almost eleven years and 240 lbs ago.
You did mention that you aren't going into the details here. I'd tell other OH members to look at the Forums heading and to see what the various forums are. Some of them may apply to you. I regularly post on a few of them. You may not find one forum that is a clearinghouse for everything you need to know. When I first came to OH in July, 2000 there were only ( only) about 17000 members and it didn't have all of these forums. Now I think there are around 200,000 members and over 127 forums. It can be daunting looking up info that applies to you. I do suggest that you try to get past the Main Forum. If you post there, you will get answers quickly, but it's hard to keep up with what's going on there since so many people use it. By contrast, this forum runs a lot slower and you may be able to keep track of what is mentioned here for a week or more. OH can provide a wide variety of support.
However, when you refer to what you have observed on this site, I wonder what you mean by this site. Do you mean all of OH ? I've looked up the addictions forum in the past thinking it would talk about food addiction but it dealt primarily with alcohol and drug addictions. I never had either one of those but I am aware of people changing their addictions. I know one woman from when I use to go to OA transferred her addiction from junk food to exercise. She swam like a fish but she recognized that she had a problem.
You mention a problem with surgeons. However, with many of us, WLS has actually saved our lives. I weighed over 570 lbs when I first came to OH and my primary, my shrink, and my surgeon all agreed that I would probaly be dead within a year or two if I didn't have the surgery. That was almost eleven years and 240 lbs ago.
You did mention that you aren't going into the details here. I'd tell other OH members to look at the Forums heading and to see what the various forums are. Some of them may apply to you. I regularly post on a few of them. You may not find one forum that is a clearinghouse for everything you need to know. When I first came to OH in July, 2000 there were only ( only) about 17000 members and it didn't have all of these forums. Now I think there are around 200,000 members and over 127 forums. It can be daunting looking up info that applies to you. I do suggest that you try to get past the Main Forum. If you post there, you will get answers quickly, but it's hard to keep up with what's going on there since so many people use it. By contrast, this forum runs a lot slower and you may be able to keep track of what is mentioned here for a week or more. OH can provide a wide variety of support.
Topic: RE: Bi Polar and having trouble with my meds.
Our WLS does affect how our bodies react to any of our meds-including ones for depression or manic-depression. Alsthough you can get general advice about what type questions you should ask your medical professionals, you should not follow medicine recommendations from us. Any changes have to be done by your doctor because your conditions and medication affect you uniquely.
I had a major problem following my RNY revision ( I had a staple line disruption with the original and needed a new RNY) . I had depression following the 2nd RNY and didn't lose as much weight as the surgeon's office thought I should. I stopped going to follow-up visits and finally realized after a couple months that I was in a sustained depression and that my meds weren't helping me. I asked my shrink to change them, but he said I was getting the maximum dose already and would have to be weaned off of that med and put on another. However, because of my RNY, he couldn't do that until I was 9 months post-op. I didn't have a deep depression. My biggest problem was that I was still eating comfort food and didn't lose much after that. By the itme I got the change in meds, I was albe to lose a little more. I had to go to an outpatient treatment center for a month while my meds were being changed. By the way, I amd back down to my lowest weight since my original RNY--top weight of over 570 and current weight around 335. I've been maintaining a 240 lb weight loss for a few years now. I am able to get adjustments to my current anit-depressant if I start feeling depressed. Unforutnately, we sufferers are usually the last to know that we are slipping downhill. I've asked friends and family for feedback if they think I'm going down that dark slippery slope.
I had a major problem following my RNY revision ( I had a staple line disruption with the original and needed a new RNY) . I had depression following the 2nd RNY and didn't lose as much weight as the surgeon's office thought I should. I stopped going to follow-up visits and finally realized after a couple months that I was in a sustained depression and that my meds weren't helping me. I asked my shrink to change them, but he said I was getting the maximum dose already and would have to be weaned off of that med and put on another. However, because of my RNY, he couldn't do that until I was 9 months post-op. I didn't have a deep depression. My biggest problem was that I was still eating comfort food and didn't lose much after that. By the itme I got the change in meds, I was albe to lose a little more. I had to go to an outpatient treatment center for a month while my meds were being changed. By the way, I amd back down to my lowest weight since my original RNY--top weight of over 570 and current weight around 335. I've been maintaining a 240 lb weight loss for a few years now. I am able to get adjustments to my current anit-depressant if I start feeling depressed. Unforutnately, we sufferers are usually the last to know that we are slipping downhill. I've asked friends and family for feedback if they think I'm going down that dark slippery slope.
Topic: My post on Main Forum about morbid obesity and bi-polar
I posted on the Main Forum yesterday about my experiences with morbid obesity, manic-depression, and food addiction. Someone responded asking if there were a Mental Health Forum and I found this forum and responded to that inquiry. I think I may have looked at this forum years ago, but I believe it was dealing with psychotic illnesses and I know enough not to discuss them.
Just dealing with manic-depression is enought for me. I'm lucky to have a strong supporting cast of family and friends. But, like everyone else who suffers from any form of depression, there are times when everything looks bleak. I oftentimes find that simply phoning someone who knows me and knows my problem can give me immediate relief. For example, on rare occasions I feel like I'm in a deep abyss and I'll call my wife at her work. She can't leave her job and has been through this before. She'll usually tell me to call my shrink but I usually don't have to once I talk to her and it only take a few sentences. Of course, I ruined her day but she's able to get past it. Some other times I'll call my brother. He suffers from depression without the manic side and we are usually not both feeling very depressed at the same time. I get to help him and he gets to help me.
By the way, I've been on Fed disability retirement since Aug 1992 while my brother is ables to continue to work. As a research scientist and teacher ( a professor and expert in his field at a major university) he doesn't want his collegeus to know he has depression. That's why I don't mention my name here. It doesn't bother me but I wouldn't want him to suffer because of it.
I'll be coming here on a regular basis--at least for a while- to give and receive support to people who understand me. Bob
Just dealing with manic-depression is enought for me. I'm lucky to have a strong supporting cast of family and friends. But, like everyone else who suffers from any form of depression, there are times when everything looks bleak. I oftentimes find that simply phoning someone who knows me and knows my problem can give me immediate relief. For example, on rare occasions I feel like I'm in a deep abyss and I'll call my wife at her work. She can't leave her job and has been through this before. She'll usually tell me to call my shrink but I usually don't have to once I talk to her and it only take a few sentences. Of course, I ruined her day but she's able to get past it. Some other times I'll call my brother. He suffers from depression without the manic side and we are usually not both feeling very depressed at the same time. I get to help him and he gets to help me.
By the way, I've been on Fed disability retirement since Aug 1992 while my brother is ables to continue to work. As a research scientist and teacher ( a professor and expert in his field at a major university) he doesn't want his collegeus to know he has depression. That's why I don't mention my name here. It doesn't bother me but I wouldn't want him to suffer because of it.
I'll be coming here on a regular basis--at least for a while- to give and receive support to people who understand me. Bob
Topic: RE: Alcoholism
This is a huge problem. I just posted about the blog I write at http://www.itsnotaddictiontransfer.wordpress.com. Upwards of 30% of patients have developed this and the rate of suicide is through the roof compared with the general population. I am writing a book about this phenomena and what you can do about it. I am convinced it is caused in large part from malnutrition caused my malabsorption. I am going to guess you had the Roux-en-Y not the Lap-Band or some other type of bypassing procedure. My blog links you to the scientific papers you can take to your doctor where it shows this surgery causes nutrient deficiencies even with supplementation. Most doctors are unaware of the behavioral symptoms of nutrient deficiencies, how B-vitamin deficiencies mimic dementia, how other deficiencies causes aggression, or rapid heartbeat that presents as "panic attack" that you may medicate with alcohol.
From your post I can't tell if you are having a drinking problem, but if you are, you need to re-nourish yourself with nutrients (see blog) and stop drinking. You may need professional assistance to stop drinking and there are some effective medications that you can ask your doctor about to see if they are appropriate for you. Ask about Naltexone, and Topamax. They also have Antabuse but my recovering friends did not speak highly about it. That is a discussion for you and your doctor. It is important to find a doctor that you can develop a good relationship with to have frank discussions with. Best of luck to you and if you want to email me offline my email is [email protected].
From your post I can't tell if you are having a drinking problem, but if you are, you need to re-nourish yourself with nutrients (see blog) and stop drinking. You may need professional assistance to stop drinking and there are some effective medications that you can ask your doctor about to see if they are appropriate for you. Ask about Naltexone, and Topamax. They also have Antabuse but my recovering friends did not speak highly about it. That is a discussion for you and your doctor. It is important to find a doctor that you can develop a good relationship with to have frank discussions with. Best of luck to you and if you want to email me offline my email is [email protected].
Topic: Increase Rate of Suicide after Gastric Bypass
Hello All,
I have started a blog to try and get the message out about the startling increase in the rate of suicide and related problems with nutritional related deficiencies post-gastric bypass that many surgeons aren't telling their patients. The stories that people tell me are absolutely heart breaking. The sad thing is, they are blaming the patients (they call it addiction transfer) when it can be avoided if given the right information. I won't go into the details here, but those of you who are interested or who are experiencing problems or know what I'm talking about can find my blog at http://www.itsnotaddictiontransfer.wordpress.com
I've looked on this site and have seen very little about people with problems with alcohol and addiction. So either people aren't admitting it on this site or they aren't talking about it, since as many as 30+% of post-gastric bypass patients are having these types of problems. Admittedly, when you are in the depths of despair, you probably aren't going to be on a site like this chatting about how terrible things are - you are probably in denial and hiding it. Most people go to a site like this to rave about how happy they are. I know that's what I did my first two years. These problems usually hit between 18-26 months post-op when your reserves have been ultimately depleted, and you are no longer posting on this site.
I promise this is not to sell anything, I am just trying to get the word out and help people who are having problems and hopefully prevent others from developing problems. Many of you already know this, but I link to the latest studies on nutritional deficiencies, increased suicide rates, by the scientific publications, etc. And to all you who are just fine - kudos and congratulations, this is for those who aren't. If you know of someone who has developed a problem after surgery and they are interested in further information they can email me at [email protected].
I have started a blog to try and get the message out about the startling increase in the rate of suicide and related problems with nutritional related deficiencies post-gastric bypass that many surgeons aren't telling their patients. The stories that people tell me are absolutely heart breaking. The sad thing is, they are blaming the patients (they call it addiction transfer) when it can be avoided if given the right information. I won't go into the details here, but those of you who are interested or who are experiencing problems or know what I'm talking about can find my blog at http://www.itsnotaddictiontransfer.wordpress.com
I've looked on this site and have seen very little about people with problems with alcohol and addiction. So either people aren't admitting it on this site or they aren't talking about it, since as many as 30+% of post-gastric bypass patients are having these types of problems. Admittedly, when you are in the depths of despair, you probably aren't going to be on a site like this chatting about how terrible things are - you are probably in denial and hiding it. Most people go to a site like this to rave about how happy they are. I know that's what I did my first two years. These problems usually hit between 18-26 months post-op when your reserves have been ultimately depleted, and you are no longer posting on this site.
I promise this is not to sell anything, I am just trying to get the word out and help people who are having problems and hopefully prevent others from developing problems. Many of you already know this, but I link to the latest studies on nutritional deficiencies, increased suicide rates, by the scientific publications, etc. And to all you who are just fine - kudos and congratulations, this is for those who aren't. If you know of someone who has developed a problem after surgery and they are interested in further information they can email me at [email protected].
Topic: RE: Alcoholism
I forgot to post the link to the Crossing to Transfer Addictions page on OH. There are a few posters there that are faithful to it, and might be able to help you as well.
I hope you are checking out AA, and seeking medical help for your drinking.
http://www.obesityhelp.com/group/crossingtotransferaddiction s/discussion/
I hope you are checking out AA, and seeking medical help for your drinking.
http://www.obesityhelp.com/group/crossingtotransferaddiction s/discussion/
Seek always to do some good, somewhere. Every man has to seek in his own way to realize his true worth. You must give some time to your fellow man. For remember, you don't live in a world all your own. Your brothers are here too.
Albert Schweitzer
Albert Schweitzer
Topic: RE: Alcoholism
Hi,
Well I used to drink once in a while too, now I find myself drinking every day, started with the gym once a day, then twice a day, then three times a day on weekends.. now well, yeah its wine.. never saw this coming
Well I used to drink once in a while too, now I find myself drinking every day, started with the gym once a day, then twice a day, then three times a day on weekends.. now well, yeah its wine.. never saw this coming
Topic: RE: Having This Surgery Destroyed My Life
Ginny,
You are absolutely right. It is not your fault and you are absolutely right it is a malabsoprtion issue. I am contacting anyone and everyone I can think of. I have contacted Dr. Oz, Dr. Judith Hagedorn who worked on the study confirming what we all already knew which was alcohol made us drunker, trying to get a study done. I think if they would do a statistical study comparing Roux-en-Y patients with Lap-Band patients to see which population has a higher population of this "addiction transfer" then they could identify whether it was a biochemical of psychological phenomena. Though I am sure we are all positive it is a biochemical because we can "feel" the difference. We all know how we felt before and we know we are different now, and no one seems to believe us.
I am writing a book and would like to gather as many stories and details as I can. If anyone is willing to send me their story, please contact me at [email protected]. I am serious about this. Dr. Hagedorn has agreed to talk with me in person about this so hopefully we can get some traction and if we can scream loudly enough.
It is bad enough people are becoming addicted to alcohol and drugs, but even worse when they cannot deal with the addiction and depression they are then committing suicide. So all the health benefits are going down the drain.
I have personally made a lot of head way by taking about 40 vitamins a day. Of course that isn't what my surgeon told me to take. I had to learn that the hard way by becoming so deficient and anemic and taking months and months to build myself back up.
The list of what I take is on www.itsnotaddictiontransfer.wordpress.com
Best Regards.
Lisa
You are absolutely right. It is not your fault and you are absolutely right it is a malabsoprtion issue. I am contacting anyone and everyone I can think of. I have contacted Dr. Oz, Dr. Judith Hagedorn who worked on the study confirming what we all already knew which was alcohol made us drunker, trying to get a study done. I think if they would do a statistical study comparing Roux-en-Y patients with Lap-Band patients to see which population has a higher population of this "addiction transfer" then they could identify whether it was a biochemical of psychological phenomena. Though I am sure we are all positive it is a biochemical because we can "feel" the difference. We all know how we felt before and we know we are different now, and no one seems to believe us.
I am writing a book and would like to gather as many stories and details as I can. If anyone is willing to send me their story, please contact me at [email protected]. I am serious about this. Dr. Hagedorn has agreed to talk with me in person about this so hopefully we can get some traction and if we can scream loudly enough.
It is bad enough people are becoming addicted to alcohol and drugs, but even worse when they cannot deal with the addiction and depression they are then committing suicide. So all the health benefits are going down the drain.
I have personally made a lot of head way by taking about 40 vitamins a day. Of course that isn't what my surgeon told me to take. I had to learn that the hard way by becoming so deficient and anemic and taking months and months to build myself back up.
The list of what I take is on www.itsnotaddictiontransfer.wordpress.com
Best Regards.
Lisa
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