1000-1200 Calories Long Term?
Just wanted to run this by the group at large, especially those that have been around a while and are at your "goal" weight.
We had our final mtg with Nutrition folks in the program (3-4 month Post Op follow-up) and the item on the presentation that surprised me the most was a long term plan of 1000-1200 calories daily?
She said that the folks that exceeded that (1300-1350 calories avg at most) were the ones that consistently put on weight again?
I ran this by a few of those "calorie calculators" and for a Male, 5'9" only weighing 155 pounds (Normal BMI / 23), 41 years old, moderate exercise.
They are talking 2000-2500 calories per day? I was guessing 1500-2000?
My dad now weighs 155 pounds (from 270) after doing Weigh****chers, so I was just basing this on what I see him eating and he is not gaining any back.
Does 1000-1200 seem small to you for long term health? They did not say for Women on the presentation, but I have seen one link that said 1200 for ladies and 1800 for men?
We had our final mtg with Nutrition folks in the program (3-4 month Post Op follow-up) and the item on the presentation that surprised me the most was a long term plan of 1000-1200 calories daily?
She said that the folks that exceeded that (1300-1350 calories avg at most) were the ones that consistently put on weight again?
I ran this by a few of those "calorie calculators" and for a Male, 5'9" only weighing 155 pounds (Normal BMI / 23), 41 years old, moderate exercise.
They are talking 2000-2500 calories per day? I was guessing 1500-2000?
My dad now weighs 155 pounds (from 270) after doing Weigh****chers, so I was just basing this on what I see him eating and he is not gaining any back.
Does 1000-1200 seem small to you for long term health? They did not say for Women on the presentation, but I have seen one link that said 1200 for ladies and 1800 for men?
Well you have to remember that your Typical WLS patient doesn't lead a very active lifestyle so yes that calorie goal would probably be ideal.
On Average I eat between 2000 and 2800 calories and on some Saturdays I will eat 3000-4000 calories
yes I essentially eat all day.
How do I get away with this? EASY I exercise! My typical Day starts at 4am with me waking up to go to the gym. 2-2.5 hours at the gym whi*****ludes
60 minutes of intense cardio (high HR Zone 3 Low Zone 4 as a minimum) Cardio includes:
Running
Spin
Swimming
Followed by 30-60 minutes of targeted weights.
This routine is good for 1000-2000 calories burned.
Saturdays is typically a long run 10-13.5 miles which is good for 2000-3000 calories.
As long as I am exercising I am eating, my food choices are all typically good High protein (real high by most people here) and I eat carbs simple and complex as they are fuel!
I see daily fluctuation in my weight which can be attributed to glycogen stores and hydration levels. With the birth of my daughter and my latest injury over the holidays diet was difficult and my weigh fluctuated up more than I liked so I simply cut back and changed my choices. Getting back to serious training saw me Drop 4 pounds in 3 days.
When not working out I am safe at 2000 calories a day. I know this because I had my RMR tested and know what caloric intake my body requires just to function.
Depending on you Build and other factors this caloric goal may be to low, I doubt it is to high. Best way to tell is to get your RMR tested so you will know what you body needs and then go from there. This is basically what vets are doing when they say they slowly start increasing their calories during maint. phase. They increase until they gain a bit and then they cut that back a bit basically giving them their RMR.
Saying that folks that exceed 1300 are ones *****gain well again this is probably on average. I know a number of RNY folks who eat over 3000 calories a day with no ill effects and I know one guy that is over 5000 a day. Again we get away with it because of the active lifestyles we have chose.
So I guess the short answer is that you have to tailor your caloires to your lifestyle and by communicating your lifestyle with a knowledgable NUT you will get help in dialing in your diet.
On Average I eat between 2000 and 2800 calories and on some Saturdays I will eat 3000-4000 calories
yes I essentially eat all day.How do I get away with this? EASY I exercise! My typical Day starts at 4am with me waking up to go to the gym. 2-2.5 hours at the gym whi*****ludes
60 minutes of intense cardio (high HR Zone 3 Low Zone 4 as a minimum) Cardio includes:
Running
Spin
Swimming
Followed by 30-60 minutes of targeted weights.
This routine is good for 1000-2000 calories burned.
Saturdays is typically a long run 10-13.5 miles which is good for 2000-3000 calories.
As long as I am exercising I am eating, my food choices are all typically good High protein (real high by most people here) and I eat carbs simple and complex as they are fuel!
I see daily fluctuation in my weight which can be attributed to glycogen stores and hydration levels. With the birth of my daughter and my latest injury over the holidays diet was difficult and my weigh fluctuated up more than I liked so I simply cut back and changed my choices. Getting back to serious training saw me Drop 4 pounds in 3 days.
When not working out I am safe at 2000 calories a day. I know this because I had my RMR tested and know what caloric intake my body requires just to function.
Depending on you Build and other factors this caloric goal may be to low, I doubt it is to high. Best way to tell is to get your RMR tested so you will know what you body needs and then go from there. This is basically what vets are doing when they say they slowly start increasing their calories during maint. phase. They increase until they gain a bit and then they cut that back a bit basically giving them their RMR.
Saying that folks that exceed 1300 are ones *****gain well again this is probably on average. I know a number of RNY folks who eat over 3000 calories a day with no ill effects and I know one guy that is over 5000 a day. Again we get away with it because of the active lifestyles we have chose.
So I guess the short answer is that you have to tailor your caloires to your lifestyle and by communicating your lifestyle with a knowledgable NUT you will get help in dialing in your diet.
Paul C.
First 5K 9/27/20 46:32 - 11 weeks post op (PR 28:55 8/15/11)
First 10K 7/04/2011 1:03 First 15K 9/18/2011 1:37
First Half Marathon 10/02/2011 2:27:44 (PR 2:24:35)
First Half Ironman 9/30/12 7:32:04
First 5K 9/27/20 46:32 - 11 weeks post op (PR 28:55 8/15/11)
First 10K 7/04/2011 1:03 First 15K 9/18/2011 1:37
First Half Marathon 10/02/2011 2:27:44 (PR 2:24:35)
First Half Ironman 9/30/12 7:32:04
The calorie calculators are correct. 1000-1200 calories is a starvation diet. It works to take your weight down, but you will need to consume many more calories to stay even when you get down to where you want to be.
For example: a 50 year old 6' male who weighs 160 lbs (BMI of 21.7) has a Basal Metabolic Rate (resting base-line calorie burn) of 1637 calories. Even a sedentary person who does little or no exercise at that rate will need 20% more calories to stay at 160, so that is a total of 1964. Just to stay even.
If our 50 year old male from the above example only consumed 1000 calories per day at 160 lbs, he would lose weight and eventually starve.
Do the same thing fora 50 year old, 5' 2" female who weighs 120 lbs. The BMR is 1261. 1261 plus 20% = 1513 calories to maintain 120 lbs with a sedentary lifestyle.
So 1000 - 1200 calories per day will not even sustain a small female, let alone an average sized male. If you do any exercise of any significance at all, you will need more than 2000 calories per day.
The nutritionist you cite is probably telling her patients to keep their calories low because she knows most people are not truthful (and also are unable to accurately estimate) about how much they eat. Many doctors will tell you they increase calorie estimates given by patients by 50%.
In my own case, I hike a lot to stay in condition. On a typical hike carrying ~15% of my body weight on my back and hiking in a moderate mountain range for about 8 hours a day, I need between 4000 to 6000 calories per day to stay even. Hiking all last summer and during this fall (and even winter!), I have dropped 214 lbs since my surgery.
Now at 190, my weight continues to drop slowly. Trying to eat 4000 calories on the trail is not all that easy! I am planning a long hike this summer (30 days or so) in the moderate terrain of Georgia, North Carolina and Virginia and this will become a real issue.
If you want to play around with the BMR calculations and daily needs, try this website:
http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/
Good luck!
For example: a 50 year old 6' male who weighs 160 lbs (BMI of 21.7) has a Basal Metabolic Rate (resting base-line calorie burn) of 1637 calories. Even a sedentary person who does little or no exercise at that rate will need 20% more calories to stay at 160, so that is a total of 1964. Just to stay even.
If our 50 year old male from the above example only consumed 1000 calories per day at 160 lbs, he would lose weight and eventually starve.
Do the same thing fora 50 year old, 5' 2" female who weighs 120 lbs. The BMR is 1261. 1261 plus 20% = 1513 calories to maintain 120 lbs with a sedentary lifestyle.
So 1000 - 1200 calories per day will not even sustain a small female, let alone an average sized male. If you do any exercise of any significance at all, you will need more than 2000 calories per day.
The nutritionist you cite is probably telling her patients to keep their calories low because she knows most people are not truthful (and also are unable to accurately estimate) about how much they eat. Many doctors will tell you they increase calorie estimates given by patients by 50%.
In my own case, I hike a lot to stay in condition. On a typical hike carrying ~15% of my body weight on my back and hiking in a moderate mountain range for about 8 hours a day, I need between 4000 to 6000 calories per day to stay even. Hiking all last summer and during this fall (and even winter!), I have dropped 214 lbs since my surgery.
Now at 190, my weight continues to drop slowly. Trying to eat 4000 calories on the trail is not all that easy! I am planning a long hike this summer (30 days or so) in the moderate terrain of Georgia, North Carolina and Virginia and this will become a real issue.
If you want to play around with the BMR calculations and daily needs, try this website:
http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/
Good luck!
Paul:
I didn't mention Tennessee, but that was a good guess! Yes -- that is my thought. It is 467 miles from the trail head at Springer Mountain in GA to Damascus, VA. That is about 15 miles per day if I take 30 days. That might be ambitious. I guess I will just see how far I can get before I run out of time. Of course I would love to just take the time off and thru-hike the whole thing. I'll be starting too late for a northbound thru hike -- I was planning on going sometime in mid-July.
Any thoughts on nutrition? I know you have basically become an athlete and have high-caloric needs at times. I've been out for 3 days at a time and the 4000 to 6000 calorie burn has not been a problem. I bring plenty of carbs and beef jerky. When I return, I just notice that I have lost more weight -- probably more muscle than I want. I have found it really hard to stop and eat while exercising heavily.
I am only going to carry a bare mini um of equipment. My base weight without food and fuel will be about 12 lbs, leaving me with a max of 18 lbs for food, water and fuel. Two liters of water is about 4.5 lbs so that leaves 13.5 lbs for food, max. I would like to stay at 25 lbs or under which would leave 8.5 lbs for food.
The obsession with weight is because I really want to enjoy the hike. I have seen too many people try to carry too much and end up miserable. I've carried a 40 lb pack in the White Mountains of NH myself and it was shear agony. Never again.
It looks like resupply is possible at towns every 2-4 days. I understand that I will need at least 2 lbs of dehydrated food per day, which a max of 8 lbs. The problem is, many of the dehydrated meals, which are loaded with fat, salt, carbs, calories and protein -- as they should be -- are in 16 and 24 oz portions -- too much for someone who has had RNY to eat at one time.
I am going to have to carry cheese, beef jerky, trail mix, beef sticks, etc. to get the calories and protein. I'd also like to have some green stuff. I think all this is going to add weight. I guess starting out after a resupply at just under 30 and dropping down each day would be OK.
Any thoughts you have would be very much appricated!
Would you like to come with me?
-Joe
I didn't mention Tennessee, but that was a good guess! Yes -- that is my thought. It is 467 miles from the trail head at Springer Mountain in GA to Damascus, VA. That is about 15 miles per day if I take 30 days. That might be ambitious. I guess I will just see how far I can get before I run out of time. Of course I would love to just take the time off and thru-hike the whole thing. I'll be starting too late for a northbound thru hike -- I was planning on going sometime in mid-July.
Any thoughts on nutrition? I know you have basically become an athlete and have high-caloric needs at times. I've been out for 3 days at a time and the 4000 to 6000 calorie burn has not been a problem. I bring plenty of carbs and beef jerky. When I return, I just notice that I have lost more weight -- probably more muscle than I want. I have found it really hard to stop and eat while exercising heavily.
I am only going to carry a bare mini um of equipment. My base weight without food and fuel will be about 12 lbs, leaving me with a max of 18 lbs for food, water and fuel. Two liters of water is about 4.5 lbs so that leaves 13.5 lbs for food, max. I would like to stay at 25 lbs or under which would leave 8.5 lbs for food.
The obsession with weight is because I really want to enjoy the hike. I have seen too many people try to carry too much and end up miserable. I've carried a 40 lb pack in the White Mountains of NH myself and it was shear agony. Never again.
It looks like resupply is possible at towns every 2-4 days. I understand that I will need at least 2 lbs of dehydrated food per day, which a max of 8 lbs. The problem is, many of the dehydrated meals, which are loaded with fat, salt, carbs, calories and protein -- as they should be -- are in 16 and 24 oz portions -- too much for someone who has had RNY to eat at one time.
I am going to have to carry cheese, beef jerky, trail mix, beef sticks, etc. to get the calories and protein. I'd also like to have some green stuff. I think all this is going to add weight. I guess starting out after a resupply at just under 30 and dropping down each day would be OK.
Any thoughts you have would be very much appricated!
Would you like to come with me?
-Joe
Living in Northern GA it wasn't to hard to guess.
First thanks for the offer to join you but I think I will pass. I will be at peak training for a 70.3 Ironman event around that time and time off from training will be difficult to make up.
As for Nutrition have you considered a higher caloric supplement in powder form? That much moving is going to burn through your glycogen pretty fast and while the need for high protein is the RNY way when you get into these type of things carbs become almost as important.
You figure a standard endurance athalete or runner has a 3:1 ratio of carbs to protein to maintain energy levels.
I don't know how practicle it would be for you but Hammer Nutrition has a number of products to deliver calories and in an easy to use form. Things Like gels and perpetum(sp) which is a protein source.
I know from my training when your sweat starts to smell like amonia you are processing protein and not carbs which as we all know is not a good thing. If you are going to be burning those types of Cals then it might be time to adjust your diet for your activity. While this is hard to get our minds around it does make some sense. Last time I met my nutritionist I showed her how I was following the rules of high protein and low carbs and being a good WLSer and she says "Your not a bariatric patient any more. Your an athalete with different dietary needs and you need to eat that way". Obviously this only applies while we are engaged in our activities but maybe this is something you may want to look at. What do other people pack to eat? on these types of treks.
I have many friends that do hike and some of them do portions of the AT so I understand the need to minimize your weight you carry and a lot of the new equipment is mind blowing on how light it is.
Good Luck!
First thanks for the offer to join you but I think I will pass. I will be at peak training for a 70.3 Ironman event around that time and time off from training will be difficult to make up.
As for Nutrition have you considered a higher caloric supplement in powder form? That much moving is going to burn through your glycogen pretty fast and while the need for high protein is the RNY way when you get into these type of things carbs become almost as important.
You figure a standard endurance athalete or runner has a 3:1 ratio of carbs to protein to maintain energy levels.
I don't know how practicle it would be for you but Hammer Nutrition has a number of products to deliver calories and in an easy to use form. Things Like gels and perpetum(sp) which is a protein source.
I know from my training when your sweat starts to smell like amonia you are processing protein and not carbs which as we all know is not a good thing. If you are going to be burning those types of Cals then it might be time to adjust your diet for your activity. While this is hard to get our minds around it does make some sense. Last time I met my nutritionist I showed her how I was following the rules of high protein and low carbs and being a good WLSer and she says "Your not a bariatric patient any more. Your an athalete with different dietary needs and you need to eat that way". Obviously this only applies while we are engaged in our activities but maybe this is something you may want to look at. What do other people pack to eat? on these types of treks.
I have many friends that do hike and some of them do portions of the AT so I understand the need to minimize your weight you carry and a lot of the new equipment is mind blowing on how light it is.
Good Luck!
Paul C.
First 5K 9/27/20 46:32 - 11 weeks post op (PR 28:55 8/15/11)
First 10K 7/04/2011 1:03 First 15K 9/18/2011 1:37
First Half Marathon 10/02/2011 2:27:44 (PR 2:24:35)
First Half Ironman 9/30/12 7:32:04
First 5K 9/27/20 46:32 - 11 weeks post op (PR 28:55 8/15/11)
First 10K 7/04/2011 1:03 First 15K 9/18/2011 1:37
First Half Marathon 10/02/2011 2:27:44 (PR 2:24:35)
First Half Ironman 9/30/12 7:32:04
Paul:
Thanks for the info! I'd love to have someone to walk with but I'll do it alone if need be!
I will try the products you mention. My NUT has graciously agreed to help me plan, so this will be a good place to start.
I have already experienced hitting the "carb wall" and feeling like crap while hiking. Now I consume carbs like nuts, trail mix, energy bars and electrolyte tabs while hiking. That has helped a lot. I am worried that if I don't get enough protein during a prolonged hike, my body will break down the muscles elsewhere in my body to repair the muscles in my legs and back. The heart is a big muscle, so this sounds like a bad thing.
I am amazed at how much I can eat and still lose weight!
Who would have thought that only 14 months ago at 404 lbs I would be thinking about such things? This RNY thing has worked better than my wildest dreams and thru hiking the AT is one of my fantasies. This is a way to make at least part of that fantasy come true!
The AT runs through CT, MA, and NH all within easy driving distance for me and I have hike on it for a few days at a time. As I said, 30 days (or maybe a few more) is like a dream!
If there is anyone else out there reading this who might want to walk along, even for a part of the trip, let me know.
Thanks again!
-Joe
Thanks for the info! I'd love to have someone to walk with but I'll do it alone if need be!
I will try the products you mention. My NUT has graciously agreed to help me plan, so this will be a good place to start.
I have already experienced hitting the "carb wall" and feeling like crap while hiking. Now I consume carbs like nuts, trail mix, energy bars and electrolyte tabs while hiking. That has helped a lot. I am worried that if I don't get enough protein during a prolonged hike, my body will break down the muscles elsewhere in my body to repair the muscles in my legs and back. The heart is a big muscle, so this sounds like a bad thing.
I am amazed at how much I can eat and still lose weight!
Who would have thought that only 14 months ago at 404 lbs I would be thinking about such things? This RNY thing has worked better than my wildest dreams and thru hiking the AT is one of my fantasies. This is a way to make at least part of that fantasy come true!
The AT runs through CT, MA, and NH all within easy driving distance for me and I have hike on it for a few days at a time. As I said, 30 days (or maybe a few more) is like a dream!
If there is anyone else out there reading this who might want to walk along, even for a part of the trip, let me know.
Thanks again!
-Joe
If anyone gains weight at 13-1400 calories a day, I'd say they are likely to die early from being underactive.
Of course, maybe the dieticians is recommending that as a way for the average person to form habits to remain at a good weight over the long haul. Could be that the folks who were sucessful at maintaining good eating habits over the long haul actually started out that low.
I don't seem to gain weight at all eating 2-2500 calories a day, but I've exercised 5-7 days a week for over 6 ears (started 6 months before surgery).
As a side note, I'm not sure where they myth came from that RNY people lose malabsorption after a short time out. (??) I'm 100% certain I still have it. Perhaps it depends on physical makeup, such as intestinal width, etc. If you think of it, wider pipes could equal less absorption. I'm sure the colon is like 1.5 times wider than average. Not sure about the small intestine.
Of course, maybe the dieticians is recommending that as a way for the average person to form habits to remain at a good weight over the long haul. Could be that the folks who were sucessful at maintaining good eating habits over the long haul actually started out that low.
I don't seem to gain weight at all eating 2-2500 calories a day, but I've exercised 5-7 days a week for over 6 ears (started 6 months before surgery).
As a side note, I'm not sure where they myth came from that RNY people lose malabsorption after a short time out. (??) I'm 100% certain I still have it. Perhaps it depends on physical makeup, such as intestinal width, etc. If you think of it, wider pipes could equal less absorption. I'm sure the colon is like 1.5 times wider than average. Not sure about the small intestine.
You guys are confirming my thoughts on this subject!! 1 on 1 with the NUT and I might have challenged this a bit more, but looking around the room and I see her "audience" and why she might be coming in low.
I was the only one in the room who had lost "above avg" for the 3-4 month post op (They say 30-40% of Excess Weight is normal, I was just over 50%)
As I move into 6 days a week of exercise I suspect I will see that need (more calories) long term, but I will wait until I am in ONEderland before I start to worry much about this.
I actually worry more about being ABLE to eat enough (and hit my protein goals!) I am drinking 30-60g of protein per day and that is with water so my calories is probably under 500 per day!
So thinking I have to "eat" that much is intimidating, but from what I read on here, I will eventually be able to handle a bit more volume and I will have to pick and choose higher caloric content / while still avoiding fats / simple sugars.
Thx for the advice!! I am only a couple hours from the AT myself, and hope to do part of it someday. Another one that many folks don't know about is the Mountain to Sea trail "system" in NC.
http://www.hikewnc.info/trailheads/mst/
http://www.ncmst.org/
Might be another option, "easier" to finish in a shorter period of time and not something "everyone" has heard of!! Several portions of this go right by my office so I hope to hike and BIKE part of it this spring!
I was the only one in the room who had lost "above avg" for the 3-4 month post op (They say 30-40% of Excess Weight is normal, I was just over 50%)
As I move into 6 days a week of exercise I suspect I will see that need (more calories) long term, but I will wait until I am in ONEderland before I start to worry much about this.
I actually worry more about being ABLE to eat enough (and hit my protein goals!) I am drinking 30-60g of protein per day and that is with water so my calories is probably under 500 per day!
So thinking I have to "eat" that much is intimidating, but from what I read on here, I will eventually be able to handle a bit more volume and I will have to pick and choose higher caloric content / while still avoiding fats / simple sugars.
Thx for the advice!! I am only a couple hours from the AT myself, and hope to do part of it someday. Another one that many folks don't know about is the Mountain to Sea trail "system" in NC.
http://www.hikewnc.info/trailheads/mst/
http://www.ncmst.org/
Might be another option, "easier" to finish in a shorter period of time and not something "everyone" has heard of!! Several portions of this go right by my office so I hope to hike and BIKE part of it this spring!
Very interesting posts and responses today gents. Loved reading about the needs of our WLS guys turned athletes. Very inspiring!! Keep up the good work and hope to see you out on the AT some day!!
9/9/09: Highest Weight: 506.5 lbs 9/20/10: Tufts Start Weight: 492.4 lbs
2/7/11: Surgery Wt: 462.5 lbs. 9/16/12: Current Weight: 287.8 lbs.
4/15/12: First 5K - BAA 5K - PR 35:49
Most Active
Recent Topics
