Testosterone Supplements
Hey guys, I had a LapRNY on 12/7/07 and have lost 81 pounds so far. I get my protein in everyday and work out about 3 days a week. I try to concentrate on my chest and arms to minimize the need for plastic surgery. My chest has shown some improvement, arms not so much and I'm not very strong. I can only lift 30-50 pounds when using the machines at the gym or my buddy's Bowflex. I was thinking about trying a testosterone supplement to see if it helps build a little more muscle. I know some people may say get more protein in and I may do that too, but I really want to know if its ok to take a testosterone supplement after a RNY? Thanks, JOE
Consult Day of Surgery Currently Goal
282lbs 270lbs 168lbs 165lbs?
2/7/2007 12/7/2007 10/18/2008
I wouldn't do it, unless you're determined to go on them for life, simply because, regardless of the controversy over side effects, your body will stop making testo on it's own. Then, when you stop you'll lose any gains you had. Also, depending on who you believe, you may have depression from the drugs, especially when you QUIT taking them.
Working out daily with heavy weights on different/alternating body parts for 45 minutes and no more than 1 minute rest will increase testo on it's own. In addition limiting carbs and taking fish oil or flax oil and eating walnuts and certain green leafy vegetables will help.
I'm 46 and have always been all natural. You appear to be much younger, so I would think you would have all the natural ability you need without that stuff. It's just takes hard work and planning over a year or two.
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Best Wishes,
Dave
As far as I know there are no testosterone supplements. Are you talking about pro-hormones or other supplements that are supposed to make your body produce more testosterone, or are you talking about anabolic steroids?
If you're talking about real testosterone you will either need a prescription, or find a source for a drug that is not legal to obtain on your own, and that with improper use can really screw you up. It's not true that if you take it your body will never make it's own again, many athletes go on steroids, then come off with other drugs used when they are coming off the steroids that jump start your body into producing it's own testosterone again. They are not our weight though.
I'm not advocating, just trying to give it to you straight. Your nuts won't really fall off, and your body will produce it's own testosterone again (how soon depending on how smart you are about it).
The real reason you should not do it, above all others, is that at our level of body fat we would end up with tits. Not just man boobs, but full blown gynomastia requiring surgery to fix. Don't do it man. Not worth it.
Other people who take steroids are worlds apart from us, they do it with low body fat, usually under 15% and eat a ton of calories and protein, usually 4000 calories a day or more (with huge amounts of protein, like 200-400 grams a day). The steroids help them take all of those calories and protein and turn it into muscle.
We are going to get 1000 calories a day if we're lucky, and 100 grams of protein or so. Most steroids and testosterone are anabolic (they build muscle) where what we need most would be something anti-catabolic (prevent our bodies from eating away at our muscle).
You're probably be better served with a personal trainer or at least reading up on better work out techniques. For example, a great way to build your arms and chest is by pumping up your bodies growth hormone production by working out large muscle groups. In other words, build bigger arms by doing squats. Nobody likes to work legs, it hurts, but if you aren't doing large muscle group exercises you aren't going to build much strength or size.
Again, watch out for the steroids, they aromatize in estrogen in our bodies, and unless you are taking anti-estrogen drugs you end up with some nasty side effects, most likely breasts. This happens to body builders with 10% body fat all of the time, but the risk is far higher for people with higher body fat. While there aren't any studies on it that I know of I would guess that the problem could be even worse for you as when we're losing the weight our fat that is being burned is releasing the hormones it had stored, quite a bit of it being testosterone and estrogen. Our bodies are going through enough, IMHO you'd be asking for trouble.
-Shane
If you're talking about real testosterone you will either need a prescription, or find a source for a drug that is not legal to obtain on your own, and that with improper use can really screw you up. It's not true that if you take it your body will never make it's own again, many athletes go on steroids, then come off with other drugs used when they are coming off the steroids that jump start your body into producing it's own testosterone again. They are not our weight though.
I'm not advocating, just trying to give it to you straight. Your nuts won't really fall off, and your body will produce it's own testosterone again (how soon depending on how smart you are about it).
The real reason you should not do it, above all others, is that at our level of body fat we would end up with tits. Not just man boobs, but full blown gynomastia requiring surgery to fix. Don't do it man. Not worth it.
Other people who take steroids are worlds apart from us, they do it with low body fat, usually under 15% and eat a ton of calories and protein, usually 4000 calories a day or more (with huge amounts of protein, like 200-400 grams a day). The steroids help them take all of those calories and protein and turn it into muscle.
We are going to get 1000 calories a day if we're lucky, and 100 grams of protein or so. Most steroids and testosterone are anabolic (they build muscle) where what we need most would be something anti-catabolic (prevent our bodies from eating away at our muscle).
You're probably be better served with a personal trainer or at least reading up on better work out techniques. For example, a great way to build your arms and chest is by pumping up your bodies growth hormone production by working out large muscle groups. In other words, build bigger arms by doing squats. Nobody likes to work legs, it hurts, but if you aren't doing large muscle group exercises you aren't going to build much strength or size.
Again, watch out for the steroids, they aromatize in estrogen in our bodies, and unless you are taking anti-estrogen drugs you end up with some nasty side effects, most likely breasts. This happens to body builders with 10% body fat all of the time, but the risk is far higher for people with higher body fat. While there aren't any studies on it that I know of I would guess that the problem could be even worse for you as when we're losing the weight our fat that is being burned is releasing the hormones it had stored, quite a bit of it being testosterone and estrogen. Our bodies are going through enough, IMHO you'd be asking for trouble.
-Shane
Almost forgot, there is one scenario where extra testosterone might be a good idea, and that is if you are naturally low on it for some reason. If so then your body isn't making enough so shutting down your own production isn't a concern. Also, your doctor would prescribe it in that case so legality isn't a concern. Lastly, you would be getting back to a normal level, not pumping too much into your system so ***** tits (pardon the terminology) wouldn't be a concern.
Thank you for all the info. Just to clarify, I'm not talking about steroids or anything illegal. I'm talking about the supplements that are available at GNC or other health/ vitamin stores that are supposed to boost your own natural testosterone production.
Consult Day of Surgery Currently Goal
282lbs 270lbs 168lbs 165lbs?
2/7/2007 12/7/2007 10/18/2008
How many grams is "I get my protein in everyday"?
You should be getting in a consistant 150 to 200 grams a day if you really want to build muscle.
Don't waste your money on the GNC supplements until you get the basic diet down. 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight should be a minimum.
Train relatively heavy with basic exercises to build size. Worry about doing curls and kickbacks after you've added the muscle.
Good luck
Earl
What is your diet like, or if that is too much work how many calories are you taking in a day? I'm not very familiar with RNY but I know with VSG four or five months out you'd be struggling to get 1000-1200 calories a day so 200 grams of protein (800 calories) would be awfully tough to do.
Are you at goal yet with regards to excess fat? If not, I would expect only to maintain your current muscle, or at best build tiny amounts. You just don't build muscle while dropping weight. Ask any well muscled friend you have, you go through cycles, add muscle, drop fat, but unless you are juicing you won't be successful doing both at the same time.
I remember a study they did about 15 years ago on college wrestlers and how successful they were with losing weight while gaining muscle. They weren't. They actually had a measurable (and alarming) loss of heart muscle mass as their bodies started cannibalizing itself to find the protein it needed to repair the muscle they were breaking down every day in their workouts.
On the other hand, you may not really need to pack on as much muscle as you think. You will see a lot more of what you allready have as you lose the fat and you can actually gain quite a bit of strength even if you don't add a pound of muscle by working out with some decent intensity. If you have been fairly sedentary your muscles will be relearning how to work (I'm oversimplifing to save time, neurons learning different firing patterns basically) and you can gain a good bit of strength through lifting, and inform your body that even though you are slimming down you still NEED that muscle.
If you aren't able to get enough protein in (as said before, a couple hundred grams a day) then you may want to focus on working your muscles without going overboard into tearing them down. People who get enough calories in to build muscle like to actively work so hard they a damaging their muscle tissue, when it heals it rebuilds itself stronger, but if you are not taking in the protein to rebuild your muscle the I would just focus on working it, but not going so hard you feel intense soreness afterwords. If you do that without the proper protein intake you'll just end up over-training (compared to your bodies healing capacity) and start dropping muscle instead of keeping/gaining.
Are you at goal yet with regards to excess fat? If not, I would expect only to maintain your current muscle, or at best build tiny amounts. You just don't build muscle while dropping weight. Ask any well muscled friend you have, you go through cycles, add muscle, drop fat, but unless you are juicing you won't be successful doing both at the same time.
I remember a study they did about 15 years ago on college wrestlers and how successful they were with losing weight while gaining muscle. They weren't. They actually had a measurable (and alarming) loss of heart muscle mass as their bodies started cannibalizing itself to find the protein it needed to repair the muscle they were breaking down every day in their workouts.
On the other hand, you may not really need to pack on as much muscle as you think. You will see a lot more of what you allready have as you lose the fat and you can actually gain quite a bit of strength even if you don't add a pound of muscle by working out with some decent intensity. If you have been fairly sedentary your muscles will be relearning how to work (I'm oversimplifing to save time, neurons learning different firing patterns basically) and you can gain a good bit of strength through lifting, and inform your body that even though you are slimming down you still NEED that muscle.
If you aren't able to get enough protein in (as said before, a couple hundred grams a day) then you may want to focus on working your muscles without going overboard into tearing them down. People who get enough calories in to build muscle like to actively work so hard they a damaging their muscle tissue, when it heals it rebuilds itself stronger, but if you are not taking in the protein to rebuild your muscle the I would just focus on working it, but not going so hard you feel intense soreness afterwords. If you do that without the proper protein intake you'll just end up over-training (compared to your bodies healing capacity) and start dropping muscle instead of keeping/gaining.
What is the GNC stuff you were referring to anyway? I haven't been into lifting in a few years but last I knew in 2005 prohormones were made illegal (maybe they've overturned that). From what I remember, all of those things that were supposed to boost testosterone, if they actually worked they were made illegal. If not, they were left alone.
It was a little wacky, a quote from someone high up in the FDA at the time when asked if they would be made illegal was "we have not determined yet if they actually enhance performance".
WTF? They weren't concerned with whether they were safe or not, just whether or not they helped you build muscle.
It all seems a litte odd to me. Seems to go something like this:
I'd like to smoke: legal.
I'd like to drink alcohol: legal.
I'd like to take hormones to turn me into a woman: legal.
I'd like to take hormones to help get in shape: illegal.
There are plenty of good supplements out there that will help though, you may want to broaden the list of supplements (A couple of good tips in this thread already). A good diet, vitamins, protein, amino acids (yeah yeah, more protein) and maybe some creatine or fish oils, in that order, will get your a long ways.
Whatever GNC is offering it's not testosterone, and I'd be skeptical if it really does raise your testosterone levels. It may be worth more research, but I'd at least check it out pretty well before dropping hard earned cash on it.
Are you thinking DHEA? If so, that stuff won't help you do anything but lighten your wallet. If you're still in the losing stage think less about testosterone (anabolic, building muscle) and more about anti-catabolic, preserving the muscle you have. DaveNotDave already jumped in with a good anti-catabolic, L-Glutamine.
It was a little wacky, a quote from someone high up in the FDA at the time when asked if they would be made illegal was "we have not determined yet if they actually enhance performance".
WTF? They weren't concerned with whether they were safe or not, just whether or not they helped you build muscle.
It all seems a litte odd to me. Seems to go something like this:
I'd like to smoke: legal.
I'd like to drink alcohol: legal.
I'd like to take hormones to turn me into a woman: legal.
I'd like to take hormones to help get in shape: illegal.
There are plenty of good supplements out there that will help though, you may want to broaden the list of supplements (A couple of good tips in this thread already). A good diet, vitamins, protein, amino acids (yeah yeah, more protein) and maybe some creatine or fish oils, in that order, will get your a long ways.
Whatever GNC is offering it's not testosterone, and I'd be skeptical if it really does raise your testosterone levels. It may be worth more research, but I'd at least check it out pretty well before dropping hard earned cash on it.
Are you thinking DHEA? If so, that stuff won't help you do anything but lighten your wallet. If you're still in the losing stage think less about testosterone (anabolic, building muscle) and more about anti-catabolic, preserving the muscle you have. DaveNotDave already jumped in with a good anti-catabolic, L-Glutamine.
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