Need some inputs VSGers please repsond

GoingMobile
on 1/31/08 9:46 am - San Dimas, CA
Had a talk with the surgeon today about which procedure to have. He does all the WLSs DS, LapBand RNY and VSG. I need to lose about 200 to get to idea weight. He says I would not be there if I did the VSG. I thought I wanted this but not if I can't make the target weight. While he does the DS, hes says he has alot of patients and patients friends, family and co workers complaining about the bowel movements and stink, he has done several revisions to RNY because of the issues.In my line of work he says it would be a bad idea BUT he will do it as long as I know exactly what I am getting into, I agree its a bad idea.

Do I go with the RNY or take my chances with the VSG?  what kind of EWL numbers are you folks seeing 1yr+ after surgery? % wise. I think I still prefer the VSG but woiuld be disappointed if I can't get all the weight off. 


This is the last thing holding up my submittal to insurance, he ready to send when I give him an answer, I look to you for input.
nicksohnrey
on 1/31/08 10:09 am, edited 1/31/08 11:53 am - Syracuse, UT
i CANT ANSWER TO THE VSG OR RNY i HAD LAPBAND . I did lose 125 lbs with the band though . I know this may not help in  making your choice .Just though Id throw that out there  .              Nick
Sigoman
on 1/31/08 11:00 am - Blainville , Canada
Did VSG in mid-October. Down 74 pounds up to date. I want to loose 200, doctor says that if I'm working hard... I should be able.

Not sure if this is helping you.
Dx E
on 1/31/08 1:26 pm - Northern, MS

Dan, been with you from the beginning of your journey on this board at least. Wow. Now this twist. You risk opening a nasty can of worms just by asking for input, but a risk that is worth it if folks will just be outrageously honest with their responses. Here on the Men’s Forum, I expect as long as the lurkers don’t jump in, You’ll get just that. First. Who’s this Doc? Does he "Really" do DS, LapBand RNY and VSG? Or does he actually specialize in one of these, and "has done" some of the others so he can claim to be a "Complete" Bariatric Expert Surgeon? The standard DS complaint is that there are Docs who "Claim" to do DS, who actually have only done a handful, and then "Sell" another surgery that is "easier money" to their patients. This Could possibly be the case. Check up on your docs track record. How many VSG’s has he done compared to RNY’s? DS’s compared to RNY’s? Looking at his percentages, what does he "Typically Do?" Figure into that your intuition. Do you trust him? Take his word as completely straightforward? Is he "Selling you" on one surgery over another for His benefit, or Yours? Tricky judgement call, but gut feelings shouldn’t always be ignored. If you think this guy is a straight-shooter with YOUR interests in mind, rather than his own, Then by all means, Listen to HIM! If you aren’t REALLY sure of this guy after finding out that his "typical surgery" is one that he is "Selling" to you, then (even if it means yet another tolerable postponement) look for another doc. Second, if he has in fact caused you to re-examine the type of surgery you are considering, make sure WHICHEVER procedure seems most right FOR YOU, that you find a surgeon that does many of those types of surgeries. Yes? For example- don’t go to a seafood restaurant for the chicken enchiladas, and don’t go to a Mexican restaurant for the fried chicken. Follow? Once you have REALLY Seteled on a procedure, go to the "House of______" (insert whichever procedure you are seeking.) Second. Why were you originally drawn to the VSG? I originally was looking to have a Lap-Band. My original Doc did as many of them as he did RNY’s. I then explored the DS for quite a while, even meeting with Dr. Husted’s office in Tennessee (back when the mid-South had one of the authorities on the DS) yet eventually, after MUCH research, ended up deciding on the RNY. Were you drawn to the VSG because it had no mal-absorption issues? The LAP-Band also offers "restriction without mal-absorption." Some tout the VSG along with the DS because they want to be able to take NSAIDS. That is a slight issue for the new post-ops, but most surgeons allow NSAIDS for RNY’ers after the initial healing has taken place. It is often allowed by accompanying them with a Previcid, Prilosec, or Nexium. I have been on a prescription strength NSAID for over 7 months with NO issues. I personally have met and know 20+ other RNY’ers who likewise take NSAIDS per their doc’s recommendations, so the "NO NSAIDS EVER" argument is BS. Is the notion of Dumping Syndrome the drawback for the RNY? For many, it is. Many fear that not being able to eat Real Sugar without getting a stomach-ache or diarrhea to really encroach on their "Quality of Life." For me, and many other RNY’ers, this has been the most beneficial aspect of WLS. Prior to my RNY, I would nearly daily have a Snickers Bar. Now? That’s about as appealing as a steaming bowl of Ex-Lax! Choosing a Splenda version or a SF version of a food, rather than the "Full Octane" Sugar version, has not diminished the "Quality" of my life in any way. Having the underlying psychological connection of "Sweets equals The Extreme Sh*ts!" has been invaluable in making poor food choices far less tempting. Quite unlike my "prior to WLS" life, I no longer "have a taste for" Sweets. Good thing. Even with the mal-absorption aspects of the RNY or the DS, both absorb 99% of simple Carbohydrates. (for some comparison, RNY’ers mal-absorb 82% of all fat ingested, RNY’ers mal-absorb 38% of all fat ingested, the restrictive only procedures such as VSG and LAP-Band as well as Non-Ops, mal-absorb approx. 8% of all fats. ALL absorb 98% of all simple Carbohydrates!) If I had chosen one of the other procedures, or if I had been one of the 30% or RNY’ers that don’t have Dumping Syndrome, I would have had to rely solely on "My Willpower" to keep from eating candy and Ice Cream. And the first 47 years track record proved that "My Willpower" was just not up to the task. The reason I opted for the RNY over the DS was specifically because I wanted the dramatic break from my previous eating habits. My specific problem was "Volume" and Sweets. The DS would have not adequately addressed either of my issues. IF my problem had been "Fatty Foods," then the DS would have been the perfect fit. IF my problem had been only "Volume of Food" then the VSG or the LAP-Band would have been the perfect fit. Of all of the available procedures, the DS has the greatest long –term, highest % of excess loss. RNY comes in next, and LAP-Band following very closely behind. I haven’t seen the Long-term numbers for the VSG, so I have no idea where that falls on the scale. As for "Quality of Life?" Obviously MY experience is different from others, but from reading these Boards since ’02 I have seen some others pass on their experiences. I have seen RNY’ers and Lap-Banders (mostly early post-ops) complain about getting food stuck in their stomas or "passage through restriction" when not chewing their food properly and swallowing "chunks" of foods. I have seen RNY’ers, (mostly 1 year and less post-ops) complain about not being able to get in enough food. I have seen DS’ers and RNY’ers (mostly 1 to 2 year post-ops) complain of issues arising from Vitamin deficiencies, typically resulting from not following their doc’s recommendations to the letter. I have seen many DS’ers and some Early post-op RNY’ers complain of bouts of diarrhea and outrageous gas. I have seen ALL of the procedures chosen report regain and failure to lose to a normal BMI. Likewise, I have seen about the same number (by %) of All of the procedures lose to Goal Weight and Maintain and "Live happily Ever After." One last thought. If you really want the DS, one thing REALLY in your favor- In my case, my secondary insurance covered ANY procedure I chose 100%, so cost/insurance wasn’t a factor, but for many it is a primary concern. For many, the DS is out of the question due to cost an insurance companies unwilling to cover it. BUT- You’re in California. If your DS is denied by your insurance, In CA, the appeals review is generally to the CA Dept. of Managed Health Care, which is VERY pro-DS. They overturn the denial in most cases. Even if insurance denies it at first, most win on appeal. California also has some of the most prolific and talented of the DS Surgeons in the Country. For many, your location and proximity to expertise is to be envied. Whatever procedure you opt for, do so because that’s the right surgery to serve YOUR Needs, not just because it’s the easy one to go with or the one you think will be the one that’ll be "the easiest to live with." To maintain a Normal BMI for the average shmoe who has never been overweight a day in his life, it’s a matter of making healthy food choices the majority of the time and getting adequate exercise to stay at a Normal metabolic balance. In the long run, that’ll be the same for you no matter which procedure you chose. Which ever procedure makes that Most likely for YOU, is the best one you can chose. With all of the recent "My Dogs better Than Your Dog" Flame Wars on the OH Boards, I would suggest that you post this question on other Boards Beyond OH, such as --- DuodenalSwitch.Com-Forum RenewedReflections FatBlog QuixoticWLS ThinnerTimes and any other WLS Message Boards. Many of them aren’t as "Hell-Bent" on "Winning the Surgery Wars." Here on OH, I would recommend asking the DSForum VSGForum and the WLSComplicationsForum And, I would word the post to ask for honest responses "through private Messages" Sharing – "If and to what extent" they have had any of the issues raised by your surgeon. Through PM’s, people may be more willing to share that they are only 93% satified with their "Quality of Life," whereas if they are responding "in front of their peers" they may only be willing to state that- "It’s Been a better than Perfect bed of Roses! You follow? With all of the attacks from all different directions, People "might not" be willing to place honesty out on the Boards for fear that others will us it as ammo against them the next day. Does that make sense? If I had the chance to offer advice on which procedure to chose during the first 6 months of My "Journey," I probably would have recommended "Weigh****chers and a Personal Trainer!" Having lived through my rocky start, I now would say- "Whatever works for YOU!" Keep up the struggle, and do what you can in the meantime to keep shaving away lbs. It’s been a long strange journey for you already. Hope you soon find success. Best Wishes- Dx

 Capricious;  Impulsive,  Semi-Predictable       

GoingMobile
on 1/31/08 2:15 pm - San Dimas, CA
Thanx guys.  I was pretty much set on the VSG, not a fan of taking tons of viamins, just not somrthing I would do a good job with honestly. I have read many stories and a  couple of studies regarding long term issue with defficiencies and such.  My surgeon is one of those well thought of DS surgeon and I was surprised about his views of the DS, he is also dealing with most of Dr Anthones DS patients in So Cal. I truly trust his opinion. He is willing to do what I think I want, I am just trying to eliminate all doubt. I am not sure that is possible. I also posted on the VSG board and got some good responses, I say awy from the DS forum too  much like the UFC over there.
mrhaboobi
on 1/31/08 2:22 pm
Well i'm only 2 weeks post op with the VSG, so i cant help you with long term data etc.. i can say that the 2 weeks have been fairly hard work, as im sure most surgery is, biggest issue right now is being a bit scared to eat, things dont want to go down too easy, which ultimately means i have to bring my food back up. Plus i get an uncomfortable feeling im my chest which isnt pleasant..

anyways the reason i had VSG over any other options is that 1. i could always convert to DS or RNY if i need to, and 2 i wasnt a huge sweets eater, for me it was/is purely volume, so the vsg should hopefully provide that restriction that i need. i have around 120 pounds to lose, and i think the vsg will help me do that, even if i dont get to goal, if i can maintain a fairly health weight then it will have been worth it My doctor quite clearly stated that he didnt know how it would go as there is no long term data and i might regain some weight.. i've accepted that risk

good luck in your decision.



 

NotDave (Howyadoin?)
on 1/31/08 3:12 pm - Japan

Yeah, go with the RNY. I've actually met VSG people here and they didn't seem to have lost enough weight.

The stinky thing sounds kinda fun, though. Kinda wish I'd had a DS (Deadly Stink?) just because of that. Light a few matches, maybe a road flare to cover it up.

RNY is a fine choice, but it's still not guarantee that that you'll get to 200. A lot of (not all) folks plateau between 120 and 150 lbs lost. It may take quite a bit of work after that, you never know.

I'm happy with the RNY. I don't gain, but even with the amount of exercise I do, I would have to diet pretty seriously to lose 3-4 lbs. (not that I need to).

Hope this Helps,

Dave

 

(deactivated member)
on 2/1/08 2:54 am - Houston, TX
Hey GM I lost 210 on RNY....but i worked my Azz off.... sleep on it....the decison will be clear for you If you don;t know what to do...do nothing for right now Russ
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