O.K. "Muscleheads" - Honesty Time

 I have had a question ever since I've met some guys at OH events and seen pics on here .. Now would be a good time to ask it, I guess ...   A lot of fellas on OH have, since their big time weight loss (and PS, if applicable) apparently been able to really build up their muscles, esp. in arms and abdomen (i.e. "six packs") ..  I know I couldn't achieve anything even near such results, even before I started gaining weight, 20 years ago, no matter how much isometrics I did.   &:-/)   So .. and be honest ..  are you able to do all this w/o using errrr ..  "supplements" (and I don't mean vitamin pills)?   If you would be more comfortable sending a PM, do so, but I would like to respond to those "anonymously" in general on here later ..  

Well I don;t think I qualify as built... but I look better than when I was 375# If yo mean Redbull, Redline, energy drinks coffee...drinking coffee as we chat if you mean, steroids....my skin is clear no bumps here, but I do have a temper... on peoples results, remember everyone did not start at the same place....look at them and ask, did you need to loose 100-200-300-400-500... And some people were lifeter before the lost control of their weight, so they snapped back quickly... Russ

I have thought about it at different times in my life but always opted for the work hard and the benifits will come attitude.  I have always been blessed with the ability to pack on lots of muscle without lots of work.  I would also say that I doubt that there are any post-op 6 packs without some serious PS.  There are, however, a bunch of quadzillas walking around after years of carrying extra weight. Good luck

I am not one of the fit men you are referring to, but I think part of the outcome is determined by the man's age and pre-WLS weight.  I knew when I had the surgery and weighed 571 that ending up in the low to mid 300s would be a success for me.  I also knew that my goal weight would be the starting weight for many other men.  So, I never expected to end up with 6 pack abs.  I still need a cane or rollator to walk, but I do get out more and enjoy life way more than I did before the WLS.

Absolutely no steroids here.  It is possible to build up and have a six pack (in my case it's really more like one helluva 4 1/2 pack) without the use of illegal substances.  If one sets their mind to it and dedicates themselves fully to an effective regimen, a relatively decent physique can be achieved. Now for me, I still have some trouble spots where PS could benefit me, but I've been VERY surprised at what I've been able to accomplish given the amount of weight lost 250 pounds and my age (now 41).  No shortcuts here...no excuses.  Just 5-6 days per week early on of knock down, drag out, on the verge of puking, endorphin rushing workouts!  Now it's 3x weekly in the weight room with cardio on off days. What legal substances did I put in my body - protein 175-200 grams daily + creatine and glutamine twice daily.  Last supplement prior to bed is two scoops of casein protein for sustained release as I sleep.  I also supplement with ZMA prior to bed which is helpful for sustaining testosterone levels.  And once again not an unreasonable time in the gym, but consistent, very intense workouts.  Honestly,  while I know this question was not raised to any particular person on this board, I have to say that I was a bit offended with the question...for 2-3 seconds.  It's much like the idiots who say WLS is the easy way out...it's the most difficult, yet most rewarding thing I've ever done.  And so it goes in the weight room too - they must be juicing to get those results.  Just not the case and never will be for me.  There is no easy way out! Cards Fan

hey paul,

i would echo what some of the others said. i'm no bodybuilder either but i was lifting weights before surgery, actually since i was a kid. i stopped for a long time due to carpal tunnel, then had the surgery but didn't lift again until i lost the weight. but some of it did snap back. if you look at my profile all those pics are just from hard work. no steriods or anything stupid. i have too much fat for a six pack but i can get a four pack...lol (see pic).

now a confession. like Dave from japan and some other hard cores out there (you know who you are and most are responding here) we have dedicated ourselves to our workouts. maybe over the top but for whatever reason, we've taken it maybe a step further than some of our other brothers on the board. it's not a judgement call by any means. we all have our demons and little whispers in our ears telling us to workout or we'll gain it all back. so for some we work out for pure enjoyment, the ability to just do it again or fear of gaining it back. no matter what the motivator is, if you work out, you will see either gains, better physical endurance and a feeling of well being.

some of us run, bike, swim and a host of other things. weightlifting is just one of many things you can do. now i run and lift so i can only speak to those sports but here's something i can say for sure. if you get the right routine for lifting, eat right, take protien and do cardio i promise, you will change your body. it has to! i can get more ripped now than ever because i've cut out a lot of fat plus i do more cardio than ever before. i keep my muscle gain with protien and lifting.

so there's a few guys on here that have some great starting routines with weights. i think i even posted on a while back if you want to find it. give it three to six months then move unto an int. routine for the next year. watch what you eat, do some cardio and by this time next year you'll have muscles and definition. no doubt about it. oh, this is provided you've hit your goal or are close to it. if you still carry fat, you'll just end up with muscle under the fat. if you are still a ways from goal, keep up with the cardio. now one more caviat. if you are really big, yep, ps is going to be needed to get the belly fat off. i would bet your chest and arms will respond but maybe slower. a lot of guys still have man boobs and even i have to work at that too and i was a "lightweight". so yeah, maybe a little surgery might be needed but like i said, you'll be amazed at what you can accomplish in just a year. and this is just working out 3 to 4 times a week. nothing back breaking.

so maybe some of the other bigger guys will chime in here. i would love to hear it myself. so hang in there. you'll be amazed at what you can accomplish. listen, Dx was not a big work out guy. he's able to maintain and look good. so it doesn't take a fanatical approach to look good once you hit goal or the first year is up. now i've got hit the weights and work on that six pack! carbonblob

  wow .. thanks for the responses (and honesty) everyone!   a couple of follow-up questions:    (1) do you work out usually at home or a gym?  I don't have space in my little condo for hardly anything (too much junk accumulated over 13 years!) and yet I would be so self-conscious going to a gym (esp. around gals) ..  all that loose skin flopping around and such ..   so maybe it's better to wait until post-PS to get into one?   (2) out of fears of deficiencies, I started taking one of those big amino acid combination supplements (3 pills a day, like 21 different amino acids) right after surgery, but stopped when they ran out, 2-3 months later ..   do they really help in the "protein" department and as far as building or keeping on muscle, or just an expensive waste of $$s?

Hi Paul,

I built a gym in my garage (you'll have to dig a little in the pics).

Also, live five minutes walk away from a track (see videos - that snow covered area. The snow goes to show you can pretty much turn anything into a workout area.)

You don't need the separate aminos, just get enough protein.

Best Wishes,

Dave

I've lost 264 pounds since my journey began.  I like to tell people in my support group meetings that I contribute 150 pounds lost to my RNY surgery and the other 114 pounds lost to exercising.   I workout 5X a week two to three times a day.   On Monday, Wednesday and Friday I run 2 miles before work.  At lunch I run 1 mile and do 45 minutes of weight training concentrating on a major muscle group.  Then in the evening I'll run stadiums.   On Tuesday and Thursday I'll run 2 miles in the morning and I'll run stadiums at lunch.  I'm probably overtraining but like some of the other guys mentioned I have that fear lingering in the back of my mind telling me that if I don't keep it up I'll be 464 pounds again before I know it.  

Ok...  Since you asked for honesty and I very much appreciated the legal advice about my ass clown neighbors that you provided...  :)   I played football for 13 years and have lifted weights for most of my life.  With that said, I have taken a few cycles in the past and I can probably partially contribute my hair loss and probably some of my pre-op weight gain to the juice.  Post-op I also dabbled with some 10% testosterone / 5% crysin topical soutions that I got my doc to prescribe but I found that to be an absolute waste of money.  Compared to injectibe steroids the topical stuff was trash so I discontinued use.  I also did a couple months of creatine and NO2 post-op but I found that one or both were causing me to retain a lot of water so I quit taking them too.           

As far as my supplements now I take a good multivitamin, CoQ10, Fish Oil, B12, Vitamin C, Milk Thistle and an ephedra pill.  I've also had really good success in the past doing an ECA stack (ephedra, caffine, asprin).  Theres a lot of negative publicity about ephedra and most is probably true but I've never had any issues with it other than the mildly jittery feeling I get for a few minutes after taking it.  

I still have loose skin around my belly and since I am all surgeried out after 3 operations in the last 18 months I seriously doubt that I will go in for a tummy tuck.   My dream of the 6-pack will just have to linger on or die. :)   Everywhere else my skin has snapped back into place rather nicely and I have some really good definition in my arms, shoulders and chest.   I do consider myself fortunate in that fact because I have seen some that have not been so luck in the saggy skin department.   I like to think that my exercise routine had a postive effect on the skin situation too.

One big factor is the increase in protein intake.  60 - 100 grams of protein per day and if you follow even a moderate weight lifting routine, you will gain muscle mass.  As far as the "six packs," the tummy tuck can work wonders.  But sometimes, you never know. :-0 Eugene