Weight-Lifting

Okay, so I've been on this MAJOR-a$$ plateau for months. My appetite is still out of control (which my doctor said wouldn't happen), I'm still constantly craving sugars (which my doctor said wouldn't happen), and in spite of cutting out all drinks with carbs, my weight has continued to remain at my current level (which my doctor said wouldn't happen). Needless to say I'm thinking my doctor might be full of it on a number of issues. Sorry, but I'm not one of those people that thinks owning a rectal thermometer is automatic indication of being a higher authority. One of the other things my doctor said was that as far as exercise for weight loss goes, weight lifting is a "complete joke".  He was a sure of himself when he said this as another doctor I had was when he said the exact opposite. So, instead of listening to a bunch of conflicting advice from medical professionals who believe their word is law, I thought I would go to people who might have ACTUAL EXPERIENCE! I try to go biking or walking at least three times a week.  Would weight lifting be a good addition to my workout regiment?  Did it provide positive results for you?  Please give details. This entire killer appetite thing is ******g me off to no end.

Jim, Thanks for posting this topic.  I to am getting frustrated with plateaus and the decreasing weight loss between them at 10 months.  I have increased my walking jogging distance and my weight dropped 3 pounds (232 to 229) for 2 days and then went up 6 (229 to 235).  That hasn't happened to me before so far since WLS and I really am not pleased about that. I have been seriously re-evaluating my intake but have been getting "hungry" lately.  I've been eating two oatmeal squares instead of one and bananas have become PB and Banana on wheat sandwiches.  My calorie intake is up around 2000 now and I really don't like that. I have been purposely holding off on weigh lifting because of the results I 've been getting from my road work, but that doesn't seem to be doing it right now and my ability to increase my distance is at a stall also.  Yesterday, it was hot, but rather than just having a lakc of my usual wind to keep jogging, my legs were spent before I got winded.  SO I'm thinking I might keep the distance thing gong but add the upper body weight training I have been ploanning and purchased stuff for but not gotten serious about too date. I'm interested iin the results of your post as well.  Good luck on getting results from your situation. Keep me posted on your results and if anything specific seemed to have the desired results and I'll do likewise for you if I get any.   Joe

Jim, Joe, Doug.. I wanted to respond to y'all, but didn;t want it to get lost, incase it might help one of the lurkers..... It's a new post called..heavy weights... russ

Jim (and Joe), Let me join this club. My WLS was August of last year--right between you guys' dates--and I've been going through some very sloooowwww weeks into a couple of months.  Never quite a plateau technically, but now at about 3lbs a month average with those up-down-up-same-same-down-up patterns. So maybe part of is where we are in the process, our individual bods, etc. I can say with confidence that weight lifting is great for all sorts of things: the obvious strength and toning gains, better balance and coordination, flexibility (if you lift wisely) and--ta da!--boosted metabolism from the workouts themselves and from the increased muscle mass that results. Jim, your doc's attitutude toward lifting seems out of date, imho. I've seen studies (ah, so many studies to prove whatever we want!) that suggest that weight lifting may be as good and perhaps better than just cardio for us. Obviously, doing both is ideal. As far as hunger goes, I have good days and bad ones and although I try to distinguish between so-called "head hunger" and "real" hunger, I don't waste much time on it. I try instead to eat what I ought to, when I ought to, etc. and treat myself now and then to sf stuff in regulated, small doses. When I get frustrated I remind myself that if I stick to the program, I will get to a truly healthy weight. At 219.5 today, I figure I will lose another 30ish pounds. It make take 8 or 10 months, but so what. I haven't weighed under 220 since 1980 or 81. Strange how patient I was at my highest weights and how impatient I can be now, 120+ pounds smaller. But then, as my wife regularly reminds me, I've always been strange, so why would I expect decades of goofy thinking to disappear just because I've  got a pouch and a bypassed  stomach! Thanks  Jim and Joe for posting about this. I needed to do a little stock-taking. Good luck to us lucky *******s (after all, we live in an age when WLS is possible).

Jim, Joe, Doug.. I wanted to respond to y'all, but didn;t want it to get lost, incase it might help one of the lurkers..... It's a new post called..heavy weights... russ

hey Jim,

sorry to hear you've got a struggle going on here. i hope some of our more knowledgeble guys will weigh in on nutrition, diets and such. i know not Dave has some great routines that might help that balance work outs with sprints etc. also some of the other guys are really good at pinpointing nutrition and cardio to break platueas. it sounds like you're actually getting enough exercise to me. i can't really address what worked for me because i've had complications since day one that effected my weight loss. a combination of pain meds, ER visits and pouch problems since surgery has kept me from a normal regimine that might have been helpful to you. once i got on track something would happen to me and in the course of dealing with that situation, i would lose weight or change something around or have an appetite loss. so i can't help as far as that goes.

what i can answer is the weight lifting issue. look at not dave's earlier posts as to the benefits of weight lifting. it's really good for bones, exercise and mostly building muscle. as we know, muscle burns more calories than fat so replacing that fat makes you burn more daily calories which is a good thing. we become like little furnaces burning calories just standing still. fact is, i could eat anything i want this time around and not gain weight. of course i don't do that but the point is the more you work out the more you can eat or lose weight.

so try a beginners routine. i have a post somewhere a few months back on a good beginners routine. basically try to do circuits three times or more a week which works the entire body. here's the trick. you only an hour or less a day in the gym. all the rest of the time is spent resting and building muscle. so doing a workout is only a fraction of the picture. it's all those other hours that are building muscle and helpin you out.

as far as weight lifting being a joke? take a look at my profile and tell me if those pics are a joke.....lol. plus i'm a lot bigger now then when those pics were taken. yeah, the surgery got my weight off but hitting the gym put the muscle back. look at not dave, again my point being that weight lifting works. so does running, biking and everything else that gets your heart rate up but lifting helps your bones. they say it's the best thing for older folks so you know it's good. again, the fat burning is something to consider too.

if you want to stay more aerobic then do the circuits at a fair pace. i can do a whole body circuit using three sets and get finished in 45 minutes. you're huffing and puffing and that's good. if you want, later start a beginners program and you should see some muscle and physique changes occuring.

as for your appetite, that's not good. maybe your pouch is rebelling huh? don't you feel full at all? at first i could eat a lot because my nerve endings didn't heal fast. then i started being able to eat less. i admit, i eat very little now. it's becoming a problem actually. in my case the last bout of pain meds caused internal bleeding. now i screwed my pouch up and eating causes distress or pain. great! so now i can't keep weight on. i know this doesn't help your situation so again, i can't address that issue anymore. i'm not the normal wls patient anymore.

the thing with sugar and carbs? i'll let some of the other guys who know a lot more chime in on that. sounds like you need nutritional advice from them. maybe they can give you a meal plan. i too can eat sugar, a little and not dump. i've got a sweet tooth again. i fixed that with sugar free hard candy. does the trick for me. also s/f popsicles or fruit with cool whip light. if we have a dinner with friends i might have the real deal for desert but that's rare.

i don't think it's been too long since your surgery too. i know i've undergone a lot of changes in the past year and eight months. don't give up on the surgery yet. you still might have some changes going on. for me, i have to work on head hunger, carbs etc like everyone else. this surgery doesn't fix everything after all. so in conclusion i would say please stay the course and don't get discouraged. i think you need to see where you're at at 2 years, then decide if something drastic needs to be done. right now maybe think about tweaking your eating and work out routines. see if that can make the changes for you. i know one thing. i'm at the weight my body wants to be. i can't seem to get any lower short of starving myself. i know i can go up! so at some point your body is going to want to stabalize. if you feel you have more to lose then try Dx's platuea buster again until it works, step up aerobics and drink a lot more water. i've read where some patients go right back from square one and start on a liquid diet, then move to the next phase just like we did at the start. it worked for a lot of people so maybe give that a try too.

ok, this was subject i've been thinking about too. i really wonder what it would have been like if i had a normal journey and my best guess i would have plateuaed like you and Joe and gotten frustrated. i have no basis for this conclusion, just a gut feeling. so if in your shoes i would try some of the things i just mentioned. sorry for the long post but like i said, i really wonde about my journey had it been normal too. let's see what some of the other guy chime in with. good luck......carbonblob

Hi CB,

How you feeling these days? I still lift weights like always, but I've never been a planner or competer, I'm a "feeler". If something feels good to me I do more of it. Lately, sprinting has been getting me stoned off my gourd, so I'm doing more of it.

What I do now is sprinting two days weights one day - a cycle like that. The explosive power (and gh?) from sprinting is actually making me bigger. I still do my deadlifts, but all of my other legwork consists of the sprints (500's/ 200's / 100's+100 uphill+100 weight vest) is jump-squats on stairs (with and without a weight vest).

That said, I now get a full-leg pump at least three days a week, whereas with squats and lunges it was difficult.

So, haven't abandoned weights at all! Probably training more wisely, if anything.

Also, trying to adapt Faigin's thinking gradually (author of Natural Hormone Enhancement). He says that weights boost testo and sprints boost growth hormone, but that believe it or not, the two hormones are antagonistic. So, it is best to do those on separate days.

He also says that after resistance training it takes the body and endocrine system a full 48 hours to get through it's repair and rebuilding cycle and that this is not the case for sprints. Hence, the two days of sprints followed by one day of weights. (But in reality, I've just conveniently adopted this because I'm loving the sprinting).

So still there with you on the weights, but trying to work out more wisely.

I'm always hungry as hell, just like everyone else, except I'm eating real carbs and sweets way too often. It's great though, to be able to actually eat a box of ice cream bars and not gain any weight! (see we don't have sf stuff here in Japan).

Have a Good One,

Dave

Dieting is tough. You notice I mentioned Rob Faigin's exercise pattern, but I haven't been brave enough to actually go on the Natural Hormone Enhancement/ Hormonally Intelligent Exercise (books) diet. It starts out low-carb, less than 20 grams a day for an entire week. Then it puts you on a perpetual cycle of "carb-starve" (30-60 grams/day) - "carb load" (two evening meals - one low glycemic one high glycemic).

So, after the initial week of 20 g carb, you have two back to back carb loaded evening meals with some fat, no protein. Then, the following 3 days you're back on 30-60 g with high protein and lots of good fat. On the 4th day you carb load again.

Once you've reached your goal weight/ build, you can go on the maintenance program which is two days of 30-60 g carb and a third with two high carb low protein evening meals.

This might help clarify:

http://hormonalfitness.com/Natural%20Hormonal%20Enhancement% 20&%20Hormonally%20Intelligent%20Exercise%20-%20Rob%20Faigin _%20author/natural-hormonal-enhancement.html

(I find it rare and interesting that the books is actually required reading in a "Ball" State University classroom! - appropriate for a book about testo! No, seriously. My understanding is that this it is rare for any trendy diet book to be used as university material.)

My goal is to be brave enough to try this diet before I actually start to gain any noticeable weight.

I'll let you know what happens. The maintenance program is a big consolation. Maybe it's doable.

Dave

 

hey Dave,

doing fine actually. all better now for the most part. i have to watch the running due to my back. i'll jog with tango but flat out running is too hard on my back and it's acting up again. so i'm playing around with different routines now. i've switched to a single body part per day. i know this is for mass but it's the recovery time i'm after. it seems to help. then i swim everyday. actually for the next two weeks i'll jog instead because our dog walker can't come for tango so i run her instead. i'm having trouble keeping weight on as i mentioned in my post. so maybe i'll cut back a little on something. just to addicted to the weights to stop.....lol. ok, don't want to highjack this thread. later......carbonblob

CB,

It is truly awesome that you're able to keep going in spite of multiple disk problems. That is truly inspiring. Swimming is the best for that, but keeping the weights going if you can even with joint problems is supposed to be really therapeutic. I think I saw that somewhere: In almost every case, those with injuries/ joint problems who continued to exercise were able to better endure pain than those who did not exercise.

Keep It Up,

Dave