RNY Failure?

Quote from a woman on another forum, who had had an RnY go "bad" (whatever that means), and then got a DS: "Don't think that you have to stay a RNY'r, since they're notorious for failing after a few years." Really?  Notorious?  And what exactly is meant by 'failing' in this context? PS:  The more I read on these forums, the more I realize that people often get pretty passionate about their own surgery choice. 

My guess is that she will fail with the DS as well.  Keep in mind that the surgery is not a cure-all, it is a tool.  It fails because we fail to use the tool.  I was 352 to start.  I got to 270 pretty easy after RNY, the last 30 have been a lot more work.  The tool helps, but my behavior change is more important.  What you will find here Boxman, is that those who are willing to get support here on the board, push each other, do the weekly Sunday weigh-in's do great.  The failures among the men typically are not on this board and are loners, not getting support.  If you ask just about every guy here, there is a HUGE difference in the attitude and goal orientation of men and women with WLS.  Here, we don't tolerate excuses.  Guys get in your face, hold you accountable...why?  Because that's what guys need.  Encouragement and brotherly challenges and competition.  Too often women make excuses for why they failed.  My first support meeting I was the only guy among 15 women.  The crux of the meeting was they were failing because they were dealing with unresolved issues with how their father treated them.  Total BS.  Understanding the past is helpful if understanding the past is your goal.  Here we are about changing the future by creating new, more healthy behaviors.  You take advantage of that, the encouragement, the accountability, the competition, and the occasional kick in the read end, and you will be successful beyond your wildest dreams regardless of the surgery type.   You will find successful men here regardless of the surgery.  Glad you are a part of the locker room here.  Welcome.

You're absolutely right....people are passionate about their choices...and they should be. I do think the DS patients seem to be the most passionate...some are downright rabid about it!  But they probably think the same thing about RNY and Banders. Now, about RNY failures....there are cases where there can be complications or the surgery does not perform as it should be, but these are few and far between.  The overwhelming majority of the time, it's not the surgery that fails, it's the patient who fails the surgery.  And those failures often occur for the same reason folks got morbidly obese in the first place.  It sounds so cliche'...the surgery is a "tool" and "they don't operate on your head" - but it's absolutely true. This is a lifetime commitment regardless of surgical choice...a lifetime choice.  It doesn't stop after the weight comes off.   Finally the other thing to consider...and I'm sure someone can pull the stats out of their behind and refute this claim, but....mathematically because of the sheer number of RNY surgeries out there as compared to DS, sleeve, Lap Band (which is growing in popularity) we should expect to see and hear more stories of failures from the RNY population.  Percentages of longterm success may prove out that DS has a higher success rate...we're going to hear more about RNY simply because of sheer volume. People need to decide what's best for them...make a commitment and do the things they need to do to ensure that success/failure longterm.  Bottomline, IF they follow the rules - they will be successful. Cards Fan

Boxman, People do often feel So sure that the procedure that they found to be "Life-Saving," is the "Right One," that they make the jump to the unsubstantiated belief that any other choice must be the "Wrong One." "Failure" rates (at 5 years post-op) are exaggerated by such folk then, because when they find a statistic that supports their overly zealous "belief" they instantly accept it as the gospel, and when they come across contrary statistics, they assume those are false, aimed only as an attack on their "procedure/belief." As you visit these various links and message Boards, Know that like "Choosing a Religion," Most people who have had a Life Saving/Changing Procedure Will recommend the one that worked for them. Yes? A Baptist, When asked which church they would recommend, Will rarely if ever refer you to The Episcopals down the Street. Nor will the Mormons point you toward The nearest Mosque. "Is one of these Procedures Better Than the rest?" Some will say Yes. And some will say it about each procedure. But it is more like- "Rock, Paper, Scissors." Do you know that game? Scissors Cut Paper, Paper Wraps Rock, & Rock Breaks Scissors. That is the best analogy I can think of concerning the Various Procedures. And even at this, There are NO Absolutes. Outside of the game, I have seen Paper torn or ripped by Rocks, And I have purchased Scissors wrapped in Paper. I’m sure if given the time, Rock could be chipped away and carved With a pair of scissors. Some procedures are less invasive with lower complication rates, Some allow for a life of less restrictive eating, Some are more available and affordable. Keep Researching, Asking, and collecting information. The Main Message Board is a general "Clearing House" for Questions and support. And not only at this site by all means. For some "serious" information check out publications from- American Society for Bariatric Surgery http://www.asbs.org/html/pdf/asbs_abstract_booklet.pdf I typically recommend that folks get all of the information they can before "Choosing" to have WLS or "Which One." We have successful guys here representing All of the various procedures. What Works, Works. Best Wishes- Dx

Yup...I'm STILL nodding at Dx's comment -- it's like choosing a religion! Yup..yup and triple yup.... What he said!!!! Jim

Everything I am about to say I believe to be generally true.  If someone differs please let me know.  Again these are general ideas.  RNY; populary has grown 600% since 2002.  It is harder to cheat (dumping).  Possibility of greater malabsorbtion over the years.  Vitamins needed the rest of your life.  Greater sustained weight loss over years (general WLS population) than Lap Banders (not sure about DSers), stomach is still there so can possible be reattached if necessary.   Lap Band; Less problems with malabsorbtion, more freedom of food choices, less problems with dehydration, less rapid weight loss (which can be both good and bad), a need for adjustments to the band (which can be both good and bad too), People can cheat on their diet without causings dumping, advertised greatly (because it is a commissioned procedure, like lazer eye surgery), it is very difficult to find a Dr. who will adjust your band if the procedure was not done in the US (you may have to travel hundreds of miles for the right Dr.), DS; I really don't have that much information on it but it is popular.   With all weight loss surgery, the procedures have been perfected and in the US the majority of the doctors have had many many procedures under their belts before they will go it alone.    Again these are just general thoughts but I believe correct...Brian    

As a person that reads the DS forum regularly....and see the many inquries about the DS....it is true that the RNY does fail some people and they eventually need a revision.  There are 2 types of failures...mechanical, and adjustment to the post RNY lifestyle.   The mechanical failure includes things such as stretched out stomas, issues with not enough malabsorbtion (i.e. proximal vs. distal RNY), problems with ulcers...etc.  The 2nd type of failure is the persons ability to adjust to the RNY lifestyle. From what I understand the RNY tool is most effective for the first 2 years post op.  After 2 years, while there is still some restriction...the fact is that most of the "tools" effect is gone. The body eventually adjusts to the malabsorbtion or at least most of it, and dumping if it existed normally goes away or happens less and less frequently.   It is up to that person to make the most of their RNY experience by adjusting their eating habits post op, and sticking to them, getting on and staying with an exercise program..etc.   There is nothing wrong with this....this is what is expected.  The DS tends to be more effective as a tool long term because the body can never fully compensate for the malabsorbtion that is caused by bypassing 80 percent of your small intestines, hence weight loss is maintained at a very high rate (the Hess study shows about 95 percent were able to maintain a very successful weight loss out 10 years).   Does it make the DS a better surgery..for some...not for others....DSers have to be very careful to get blood work and keep up with their suppliments for the rest of their life....even more so then RNYers.   It has been a good choice for me.... As far as the person who wrote that ....I'm sure they are very passionate about the DS.....the eating habits of a RNYer and a DSer are really different....REALLY DIFFERENT.  It's one of the biggest topics for RNY to DS and Lap band to DSers to talk about.   To say that a person will be unsucessful with the DS because they have been unsuccessful with the RNY is not fair.  They are totally different operations, to be honest I don't think I would have been nearly as successful with the RNY or the Lap Band..as I have been with the DS. With that said, to have a revision is a big deal and shouldn't be taken so lightly.   The complication and death rates for revisions are much much higher then origional WLS. Scott

Just an addendum.... For the Super Morbidly Obese..according to a study that came out last year by the university of chicago (the report and link are in my profile), the DS is a superior surgery over the RNY because of the average excess weight loss, and long term weight loss maintence.    So yes there are studies that do show it is a better surgery for certain types of people.