For the cardio-kings out there

As many of you know my new passion (addiction is such an ugly word) is jogging. I do it every day now, sometimes twice.

My question is this...and I recognize that it's a little bit in the "boo hoo for you" category, but I'll shoot. Having come from the fat-side of life, I'm totally new to this physical activity stuff. Lately I've been pushing my distance out farther and farther. Last night I pushed to about 3.5 miles when I just couldn't run anymore. I had to walk. The wierd part, and herein lies my question, is that although my legs nearly refused to go anywhere, and it was a trecherous walk home, I wasn't out of breath and my pulse was really steady. I even stopped to talk to a friend that was walking by.

Is it possible that my cario fitness has far surpassed my muscular ability? If anyone knows about this type of thing, I'd be glad to hear it. What's the answer? Strength training? I haven't done ANY of it yet, but I'm meeting with a trainer for the first time next week.

Thanks for hearing my "boo hoo for you" scenario.
--Jake

The prob ( I think ) is just what you said .  It is possible that my cardio fitness has surpassed my muscular ability ?

Yes it is possible .

You have lost not only fat , but muscular ability too .

you dont have a need for it anymore ; so ya lose it . When I first started riding my bike it felt kinda the same way .  You will have to build up the muscle again . Only this with the marbling fat . LOL  Strength traing might not be a bad idea on the days that you dont run . May CB or Dave may have somthing to say too . Keep running and it will get better . Nick

Yep, it's a known fact in the world of fitness. Losing weight and doing cardio will both decrease total muscle mass. Not sure if that is what is causing it, because while losing muscle mass due to cardio or weight loss, most people also become lighter. I also doubt that the effects from decreased muscle mass would come so suddenly. Probably just carb/ glycogen depletion as Nick says. But strength training will definitely help you run faster.

Dave

Jake,
Congrats on pushing your distances... great feeling.
But, really... Isn't this bizarre? I actually ENJOY running now, as well.

Anyway, I noticed this exact thing happening to me about 5 months ago.

It's most likely a quick build up of lactic acids in the muscles and a quick depletion of your glycogen stores in part due to your lower (I'm guessing, here) intake of carbs since surgery.

I've since come up with a few solutions that work for me.
- More water before the run, more water or even a sports drink during the run.
- I know it goes against everything we've been told as WLS patients, but... MORE (good) CARBS! I'm eating over 1000 calories worth of carbs a day.
- Speed Intervals: Jog for 5 minutes, Sprint for 30 seconds (Find the interval that works best for you) & repeat as necessary. This way, you'll push your cardio workout harder and eventually get it to a point where the cardiovascular and muscular abilities are about even.

I'm sure I'll think of more... Hope this helps.

Be Well,
A.J.

That really helps, thanks. I'm going to try the speed intervals today. I also am definately WAY down the food chain on carbs. A nutrition student I saw last night said if I don't want to increase the general carbs I take, I might try eating a few whole wheat crackers about 30-45 min before I run. That way the fast-burners are readilly available. Who knows...not me. I should probably start running with a water bottle. Previously (month or so) having anything in my stomach before a run made me queasy. I'll see if that's gone away and try a little water.

Wow, thats weird.  Its kinda the opposite of what I'm experiencing. i'm getting distance but having a tough time getting wind to increase my joggin distance.  I am focusing on discipling my breathing in through my mouth and out through my nose until I con't control it (per Jim Fixx book on marathon running).  At first I hit a fatigue wall.  A day or sometimes two after going 6 miles, I was totally wiped out.  I had to first double to triple my protein intake from 60+ to 120-180+ grams a day. That made a difference and I think addressed the body burning muscle mass by giving it more to fuel the building of muscle.  My legs are looking pretty buff and the saggy skin is tightening up nicely.   I also came to the realize that proetin bars and powders weren't doing it all by themselves.  I had to increase the natural protein as in chili, refried beans, fish (that I really still struggle to digest).  As AJ suggested too, I have included some carbs like mac & cheese and Chef Boyardee Ravioli and beeferoni (go down well and have carbs and protein). Then I had to increase my iron and B12 and other B vitamns intake for some more energy, then my potassium dropped out and really made me feel wasted.  So, as recommended by my surgeons CNP, more baked potatoes, baked chips, and bananas in the diet.  And the CNP also told to take iron with vitamin C or wth OJ.  The Vitamin C helps the iron to be absorbed by the body more efficiently.  (I had increased my iron intake but wasn't seeing much difference or improvement).  It does seem to help.  I take two multivitamins with 18 mg of iron (32 per dose) twice a day. Distance wise, I am trying to build to jogging all of my 6 miles.  I started by walking the distance until I could do six regularly. Then I started joggin more to increase my speed and reduce my time.  I can do 1.5 miles without walking, then .5 to 1 mile walking then another 1 to 1.5 jogging, alternating and apering till finished.  But I can really tell when I have jogged 3 kiles, the legs are tight in the calves and hamstrings and the hip hurts but I am still at 250s. (I am hoping that as I continue to lose I will continue to feel better carrying less of me around; it is noticeably better than at 294 when I started in Jan 07). I am now alternating days during short distance days 2-4 miles with focus on jogging, between distance days.  I don't want to lose the stamina and endurance I've gained.  I am struggling with getting that jogging distance up but hope that as I stick with it, it will happen. It certainly seems to impact the weight loss when I have a good week versus the ones I miss a few day****ting the pavement. Hope some of this verbosity helps.  If you have any advice for me I'm all ears. The listening to the body and trying to respond to what it is asking for was a real revelation for me in working with my new post op body chemistry and giving it what it needs,...rather than stuffing a cheeseburger and a frosty or a DQ blizzard and covering the real needs up with fat. I am just getting to the point of my body telling me to lets go get ea run in.  Onday I was feeling really low and at 1 p.m. just said bagit and put my running stuff on at work and when for a 6 miler.  I felt beter about stuff afterward.  And the best part, I can still function after doing that now.  Back in Jan when I started, I was done for the day after 6 miles. I'd love to hear some of your road work experiences.  Any races or events upcoming you are going to particpate in?? Joe

Thanks for the great information...good stuff. I'm currently working up to my first half marathon. The Turkey Trott is a long standing tradition in our town, and I'm glad to get to participate in it finally.

If all goes well, and my body cooperates, I'd like to continue working up to the Bidwell Classic, another local run, but this time a full Marathon. That happens next March. My sister and I also have plans to get a group up for the Bay to Breakers in San Fransisco next spring.

My ultimate goal is to do the Vierdaagse (Four Day) in The Netherlands. It's a four day distance walking event, and is the largest marching event in the world. It started back in the early 1900s (this is the 91st year) to improve health after WWI.

I used to live there, and always wanted to participate. It's a four-day "Walking Woodstock". Thousands of people come from all over the world (43,000 last year) including civilians, and millitary teams. I have participated in some of the tent-city events while I was there, but not the walks. It's great fun!

Each day you walk 30, 40, or 50k depending on what you want, then each night is a FANTASTIC mealtime event including music, and a royal banquet.

You can read more about it on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Four_Days_Marches_Nijmegen

Who knows...maybe we should plan a 4-Day Men's team for next year. Wouldn't that be something!