F is for Fatigue!

Dx E
on 3/25/07 1:29 pm - Northern, MS

F is for Fatigue! --------------------------------------------Re-post (skip it if you don't need the read...) On the Nutrition side…………………. Although Low "Protein, Iron, and B-12 Levels" Are the most common culprits for Easily Fatigued By-Passers, Several other Nutrition components Are also directly related to Energy Production in the cells. American Society for Bariatric Surgery (ASBS) didn’t come out With the substantiated studies showing – "The need for B-1 Supplementation in Bariatric Patients" Until approx. 4 years ago, long after many patients were already having issues. Some Bariatric Clinics Today still haven’t put B-1 on the list of supplements Recommended for their patients. In that this whole WLS business is still in its infancy as medical procedures go, I’m always suspicious of how much of this "Medical Practice" is "Medicine" And how much is "Practice," using us a lab-rats as they improve The complete understanding of Bariatric Procedures. So, I typically look for those things that "Won’t hurt to try" and supplement Most all of the Vitamins that are just "un-used or eliminated in waste" if "too much" is taken. For example, the B-Vitamins. Too much, causes no harm. Too little? A host of problems. The typical "Super-Energy" regime, (Touted by Vitamin Companies and Nutritionists alike) Are- The "Basic B's" - B1, B2, B3, B5, B6; As well as Biotin; B12; Folate or Folic acid and Magnesium. Folate is one of the recently studied Nutrients that the ASBS has found – "… low levels of folate have been linked with Low energy levels, depression and even memory loss." Beyond the critical Vitamins, There are life-critical cellular vitamin-like nutrients, Even though they are not, strictly speaking, vitamins. ..(A vitamin is generally considered to be an organic substance ..that an organism requires for its normal health and metabolism, ..in relatively small amounts, and which it cannot make itself, ..but must get preformed from diet [or supplements]. ..Even though three classic vitamins - A, D, B3 – ..Can be made within the human body, but are still considered "vitamins.") 4 Key cellular-nutrients that are integral to Energy production are- *alpha-lipoic acid. *carnitine / acetyl-l-carnitine, (in combination) *coenzyme Q10, And- *NADH (Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide)

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All four of these, Carnitine, CoQ10, Lipoic acid, and NADH Are all normal dietary constituents, and are absolutely essential for life, Yet, somewhat arbitrarily, are not considered vitamins, Since they can be made within the body. NADH is one of the most important Coenzymes in the human brain and body. (A coenzyme is the active, or working form of a vitamin.) NADH is the coenzyme form of vitamin B3, Acetyl-L-Carnitine / Carnitine are the two halves of a B vitamin-like substance The body makes from the amino acids- Lysine and Methionine, In combination with vitamins B3, B6 and C. Coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10) which has a lot of "buzz" around it now-a-days As the Meta-Vitamin, particularly in regards to improving Cardiac issues, Is an absolutely energy-critical cellular nutrient. CoQ10 is found in food such as salmon, liver and other organ meats. (Carnitine is generally found in the same animal foods that are ri*****oQ10.) Even for Non-Bypass Folks, It is nearly impossible to get enough CoQ10 from diet alone, Especially in our later years. Studies show that the age-related decline in CoQ10 Is a contributing factor to- Cancer, heart disease and Alzheimer's disease. Since CoQ10 is involved in the production of ATP, (Cellular Fuel) It makes sense that a decline in the production of this antioxidant Would interrupt the body's energy-producing system. In fact, heart muscle biopsies in patients with various heart diseases Showed a CoQ10 deficiency in 50 to 75 percent of all cases. Idebenone is a synthetic derivative of CoQ10. Various studies have shown that Idebenone may function even better as an antioxidant And agent of cellular energy production CoQ10. Alpha Lipoic Acid is a fatty acid that would have been classified As a Vitamin except for the fact that it can be synthesized within the human body. There is a long list of benefits of Alpha Lipoic Acid, Some have even gone as far to call it the "Ideal antioxidant." Although, it is the one "Meta-Nutrient" that you can take Too Much of. The recommended daily dose is between 50mg to 100mg, But higher doses can cause nausea and indigestion, And excessive doses can even lead to low blood sugar. On the plus side, According to "bodybuildingforyou.com"--- "Taking alpha lipoic acid can sometimes lead to a mild and relaxing feeling, and lead to a better feel of well-being." My Sister is the "Nutrition-Nut" in my family and has me taking all of These "Meta-Nutrients." Of my 3 siblings and 14 Cousins, She’s the only one who has avoided being Obese since her late 20’s When she became a Nutrition Fanatic! A "No Canned / Processed food Ever!!"-kind of Gal. Must be working, she looks half her age…… For a list of Vitamins, Minerals and Deficiencies (from a website on Eating Disorders Dealing with people who have interrupted or cutout some foods from their diets…) http://www.something-fishy.org/dangers/vitamins.php

It gives a list of Nutrients, Where they are found in foods And what the symptoms of too little or too much are. From that same website- A listing of more common "Blood Work and Lab Tests" That reveal Nutrient deficiencies. http://www.something-fishy.org/doctors/bloodtests.php Last, but not least, The description of Fatigue symptoms seen in some WLS Post-ops Is the same as those of Fibromayalgia Syndrome. (FMS) (closely similar and often linked with "Chronic Fatigue Syndrome." [CFS]) Many experts think that Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS) Are variants of the same problem. Pain is a hallmark of fibromyalgia And fatigue is a hallmark of CFS. Although 75% of all people diagnosed with FMS are women, The WLS community as a whole has a remarkably higher incidence of both FMS & CFS. This for the most part due to over 70% of all FMS & CFS Diagnosed in patients who are or were Obese to Morbidly Obese. Typically FMS and/or CFS show up after a stress or trauma to the system Such as "Multiple Surgeries in a short amount of time." Could be? A widespread semi-misunderstanding, both outside and within the medical community, Is that there are no blood tests, or other medical tests That can be performed to further affirm the presence of Fibromyalgia. While this information may have been correct during the last 15 years, it is no longer correct. Testing for cytokine levels, p-cells, and MRI brain activity scans (as well as other medical tests) Have all been successfully used to help determine the presence of Fibromyalgia. Just some thoughts…………………… I had been gathering Fatigue info from my Sister and the Web for some time ... And thought I’d Share. Best Wishes- Dx             

Ron .
on 3/25/07 3:35 pm - DFW, TX
I read some? Save lots. This one was a little scientific. Good info though. 
ardbeg
on 5/6/07 9:40 am - AL
Dex, I have a question about CoQ10.  You appear to be, like me (more than me), a study/information hound.  I got my mom to start taking CoQ10 five years ago after she had heart surgery because I saw a study demonstrating benefits versus a placebo in preventing further progression of heart disease.  But I've never taken it, on the reasoning that for a 25 year old (now 30) with good stress test results, the benefits were not demonstrable against a relatively-high cost (cheaper now, but not cheap).  At the time, there were no reliable studies showing a need for supplementation for normal people.  I was also living in Boston then and eating tons of fresh fish, but I digress.  Now that I've had WLS, I'm re-exploring the issue.  Are you aware of any evidence of demonstrated benefits from CoQ10 supplementation in someone my age (with or without WLS)?  I do have some concerns about the stresses on the body of the rapid-loss phase of WLS.  I even considered attempting to intentionally slow the losses down, though post-op I'm realizing that this is not terribly feasible, at least in the first couple months (plus, I admit, I enjoy seeing the big loss numbers).  But I'm not sure of the effect of rapid weight loss on CoQ10 levels (I suppose they might even be going up, with the breakdown of fat and reduction in liver size).
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