Lymphedema Question
I am fairly new to the OH website and also to investigating WLS. I have been checking many of the forums, just to see what common opinions, experiences, etc. are being discussed. I am curious about lymphedma. Is it suspected that past WLS may have brought on many of the cases or was it just coincidence? I would love people's opinions. I am trying to not only educate myself on the actual procedures available, but also on after-surgery lifestyle and possible side-effects. Thanks for any information/opinions that you're willing to provide.
Lymphedema has a myriad of causes. The medical profession divides them into primary (Lymphedema occurring on its own) or secondary ****urring because of another disease of condition).
Primary Lymphedema is usually genetic/hereditary.
Causes of secondary Lymphedema include:
* Caused by surgery - this can be any surgery that removes lymph nodes or damages the lymphatic system. The lymph system is close beneath the skin. Removal of lymph nodes in the armpits of breast cancer patients is a big cause of trunk/arm Lymphedema. Knees, groin, elbow area, armpit and neck and central abdomen are areas that carry a lot of lymphatic vessels (where they feed into Lymph nodes) - cutting in those areas runs a risk of damage to the lymph system that can cause Lymphedema.
While I'm not a medical professional (just someone with LE who checked this before surgery) - it is highly doubtful that WLS would cause LE - especially the lap procedure. Vertical cuts do not cross the lymph vessels and would therefore damage fewer of them - possibly no damage and likely not enough to cause LE. Horizontal cuts I've been warned to avoid (ie: the type of circumferential incisions involved in a lower-body lift).
*Radiation therapy for cancer - and cancer itself can cause LE
* Infection (though this is not typical in the developed world)\
* Injury. Obesity falls into this category. Excess weight/size makes the lymphatic system work harder to circulate the fluid throughout the system - and can overload and damage it. It is possible that if the system has not been too damaged, losing weight can resolve it. If it's damaged the lymph system permanently then the best you can hope for is that losing weight will improve it, and make it more manageable.
Basically, WLS is unlikely to cause Lymphedema - to the contrary - it may help resolve temporary secondary Lymphedema caused by obesity (I'm hoping this is the case for me - my Lymphedema is caused by obesity - and while it's improved a lot with my weight loss, I won't know until I'm closer to goal if the damage is permanent).
Good luck with your questions, and best wishes for the journey ahead.
Primary Lymphedema is usually genetic/hereditary.
Causes of secondary Lymphedema include:
* Caused by surgery - this can be any surgery that removes lymph nodes or damages the lymphatic system. The lymph system is close beneath the skin. Removal of lymph nodes in the armpits of breast cancer patients is a big cause of trunk/arm Lymphedema. Knees, groin, elbow area, armpit and neck and central abdomen are areas that carry a lot of lymphatic vessels (where they feed into Lymph nodes) - cutting in those areas runs a risk of damage to the lymph system that can cause Lymphedema.
While I'm not a medical professional (just someone with LE who checked this before surgery) - it is highly doubtful that WLS would cause LE - especially the lap procedure. Vertical cuts do not cross the lymph vessels and would therefore damage fewer of them - possibly no damage and likely not enough to cause LE. Horizontal cuts I've been warned to avoid (ie: the type of circumferential incisions involved in a lower-body lift).
*Radiation therapy for cancer - and cancer itself can cause LE
* Infection (though this is not typical in the developed world)\
* Injury. Obesity falls into this category. Excess weight/size makes the lymphatic system work harder to circulate the fluid throughout the system - and can overload and damage it. It is possible that if the system has not been too damaged, losing weight can resolve it. If it's damaged the lymph system permanently then the best you can hope for is that losing weight will improve it, and make it more manageable.
Basically, WLS is unlikely to cause Lymphedema - to the contrary - it may help resolve temporary secondary Lymphedema caused by obesity (I'm hoping this is the case for me - my Lymphedema is caused by obesity - and while it's improved a lot with my weight loss, I won't know until I'm closer to goal if the damage is permanent).
Good luck with your questions, and best wishes for the journey ahead.
Thank you so much for your detailed info about Lymphedema .
I have had it most all my life and did not know a name for it until I starting researching wls.
Long story short my highest weight was 680.
Lost 300 on my own before wls.
I am extremly dedicated to staying on course since my RNY.
I feel wonderful can do things I never knew possible.
I am still plagued with lymohedema in lower parts of both legs.
I saw my surgeon for a two year check up and he was very pleased with my progress but concerned about my legs.
They have gone down some but he feels there is still at least 20lbs of fluid in each leg and not to mention I am swimming in skin.
I continue to work out 5 days a week wear my compression stocking every day.
I saw a doctor at the vein lab and he wants to do a ultra sound to make sure there are no clots and then work on getting me a pump for home to do both legs at once.
I have a pump now but I can only do one leg at a time.
I am so glad to found this message board.
I get so frustrated sometimes when I read so many make it to Onderland and I am close but no cigar.
Annie
I have had it most all my life and did not know a name for it until I starting researching wls.
Long story short my highest weight was 680.
Lost 300 on my own before wls.
I am extremly dedicated to staying on course since my RNY.
I feel wonderful can do things I never knew possible.
I am still plagued with lymohedema in lower parts of both legs.
I saw my surgeon for a two year check up and he was very pleased with my progress but concerned about my legs.
They have gone down some but he feels there is still at least 20lbs of fluid in each leg and not to mention I am swimming in skin.
I continue to work out 5 days a week wear my compression stocking every day.
I saw a doctor at the vein lab and he wants to do a ultra sound to make sure there are no clots and then work on getting me a pump for home to do both legs at once.
I have a pump now but I can only do one leg at a time.
I am so glad to found this message board.
I get so frustrated sometimes when I read so many make it to Onderland and I am close but no cigar.
Annie
Wow! You have done an amazing job with your weight loss!
It sounds like you are being pretty well treated for the LE - but you might want to check into having a Lymphedema Therapist work with you (if you don't have one already). Pumps (from what I understand) are good, but not unless you've been working with a certified LE Therapist to do decongestion therapy first (preparing the lymph system to be able to handle the fluid return from a pump). I've found the following site to be extremely helpful: www.lymphnotes.com/cat.php/id/7/
I had decongestive therapy - and then went into compression aids - no pump (my LE was pretty bad, but fortunately treated before the skin began breaking down).
Good luck with hitting onederland - I feel some of your frustration myself! I'm now 14 lbs away... and it's taking a looooong time to get them off.
The good news is that my weight variation due to the LE is now only about 1 pound (from beginning to end of day) - I used to vary about 8 pounds in a matter of hours, and about 15-20 for the day! So I look at that as a huge improvement, even if it never resolves completely.
It sounds like you are being pretty well treated for the LE - but you might want to check into having a Lymphedema Therapist work with you (if you don't have one already). Pumps (from what I understand) are good, but not unless you've been working with a certified LE Therapist to do decongestion therapy first (preparing the lymph system to be able to handle the fluid return from a pump). I've found the following site to be extremely helpful: www.lymphnotes.com/cat.php/id/7/
I had decongestive therapy - and then went into compression aids - no pump (my LE was pretty bad, but fortunately treated before the skin began breaking down).
Good luck with hitting onederland - I feel some of your frustration myself! I'm now 14 lbs away... and it's taking a looooong time to get them off.
The good news is that my weight variation due to the LE is now only about 1 pound (from beginning to end of day) - I used to vary about 8 pounds in a matter of hours, and about 15-20 for the day! So I look at that as a huge improvement, even if it never resolves completely.
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