Band to Sleeve Revisioners - How are you able to lose weight?

Herman

You rock! Thank you for sharing....I really am so grateful to see post after post of others who have traveled before me in the journey from band to sleeve.

I'll answer these same questions again for you since you drudge this up every 3-4 months like a bad religious sermon. But, you never like my answers and inevitably block me. But, I'll give it go and maybe, you'll comprehend it on some level of intelligence without lumping ALL sleeve patients into your slim knowledge bank of how this surgery works and how people are successful long term and how we manage just the same way successful people with bypass, DS and the band.

 

I have a question for those *****vised to the Sleeve. I was lurking the Sleeve board and most Sleevers can eat WAY more than a typical lap bander WITH optimal restriction. I remember being on another board 3 years ago with a few Sleevers and they would post what they ate. 

I remember one girl mentioned that she ate for breakfast 2 eggs and 3 pieces of bacon and something else for breakfast and she was only 2 months post op. And I nearly freaked out and I was about 3 years post op with my band at the time and I could NOT eat that much for breakfast or lunch with optimal restriction.

Also, after lurking the Sleeve board yesterday, there are many that are able to eat A LOT more than a typical lap bander, so what's the secret to weight loss with the Sleeve? Both the band and Sleeve are restrictive surgeries. Keep in mind I still could eat solid food with my band, but only a few bites and my food has to be very moist with restriction.

 

I eat a diet primarily composed of high protein, green veggies, little to zero sugar/flour carbs, and lots of water. I have a maximum restriction on dense protein of 3-5 ounces depend on the consistency, how the meat is prepared and if I add anything to said protein. I average 1400-1600 calories in maintenance. Really, how can someone NOT maintain weight loss at that calorie range especially when we factor in activity level, age, and quality of food intake. For weight loss mode, I drop calories to around 1000, no more than 40gr of carbs and 80-100gr of protein.

Is it HONESTLY the dumping syndrome or sweety carby foods that make you sick?  Don't tell me you don't get hungry because I've talked to some Sleevers and they still get hungry and eat 3 meals per day.

 

Since you don't want to hear that I don't get hungry, I'll skip that part, even though it's the truth. I never experience physical hunger and I eat 4 meals per day, no snacks. And, you have no idea why those sleeve patients might be hungry. They could be carb sensitive so when they eat carb laden foods, they get hungry. Their body might produce more ghrelin. No one can determine "why" hungry hits some, but most sleeve patients lose 90% of their hunger. Believe it or not, it's documented, you choose what you want to believe and what you want to dismiss simply due to your lack of education and actual knowledge of it via firsthand experience.

 

And, I have never dumped. I don't have issues with any food except pork chops and all it does is sit heavy in my sleeve, it's uncomfortable. But, it's far better than puking on water with my band. I can live without pork chops, I am happily chugging 100oz of water a day.

Or is it true that some Sleevers bougies sizes are larger than others and others are able to eat a lot more than others. Also many Band to Sleeve revisioners mention that they can eat solid food better with the Sleeve than with the Band. But I find that to be odd too, because even when my band was VERY restricted I still could eat small amounts of solids without vomiting.

I struggled with solid meat with my band. I don't with my sleeve except for the above-mentioned pork chop. What you find out that with a regular stomach, only smaller in size, we aren't battling a foreign object wrapped around the upper part of the stomach. It's simply anatomy and not a difficult concept to grasp. Bougie sizes are ONLY a tiny part of the equation. If a patient goes to a hack of a surgeon, and gets a jacked up sleeve, sure they can eat more. If the sleeve is performed properly, and said patient follows the simple rules of eating with a sleeve, it's pretty straight forward. Also, again simple anatomy plays into this equation as every human has individual stomach sizes.

 

There is no malabsorption so if a Sleever is able to eat more than a Lap bander there has to be some other negative mechanism going on like the Bypass to keep you on track...

Most sleeve patients eat better quality calories, lose weight at a better rate and are able to maintain their loss simply because the quality of their calories are higher than band patients. I can 1400 calories of carbs and fats and gain weight, but I chose to eat calories rich in protein and nutrients therefore my body uses those calories at an optimal rate.

 

P.S. Also remember a poster name Greg? That revised to the Sleeve recently and he admitted to having more restriction with the band than the Sleeve and he has to stop himself from eating with the Sleeve, but as with the Band,-- he had a brick wall. The Sleeve confuse me more and more. I know when my lap band is tightly restricted, IT WILL stop me from eating, and since I fear vomiting...that's my behavior modification, I stop eating, if I don't want to slime.

 

I don't need a hard stop to quit eating. There's no fear of puking with the sleeve because my behavior modification doesn't come from fear of negative reinforcement. It's learned behavior, it's retraining myself from what I learned all the years before surgery, I measure my portions, I stay within a specific calorie guideline, and I'm mindful of what goes in my mouth. It's pretty simple. Just because we eat more, doesn't mean we are eating more " bad" foods.

 

I also drink soda, eat chocolate, eat chips, and have girl's nights out on occasion. I live a life of moderation and normalcy by most definitions of normalcy. I'm over 3.5 years out from my revision, have delivered two wonderful babies (only 10 months 26 days apart in age), and have gone back to my losing strategies to lose baby weight. I'm still never hungry, even though you don't want to believe it, I have amazing restriction, and I enjoy a wide variety of foods.

Please explain..... Enquiring minds want to know....

My girl!  Just gotta' send some love to you and those beautiful babies.  You're still my hero . 

xoxo

USAFwife, you've done amazingly well and have those precious babies to prove it.  Love your post!

USAF You are a band 2 sleeve hero.  There are people on ALL the different WLS boards that are way out there and over the top.  Just as there are those that are the strong and steady.  You are one of those that I would like to learn from on my journey from Band2Sleeve.

USAF: Thanks for explaining YOUR Sleeve journey, it appears that it is much better to live with than your lap band.

I am very CONFUSED about your last statement: But I am happy that you REALIZE that it does not matter which wl surgery someone chooses, each individual will experience DIFFERENT experiences -- and this goes for the lap band. Just like ALL Sleevers  have difference experiences -- ALL Lap banders don't have complications or require removal. I had a hiatal hernia with my band, this does not mean every one will have one, even with my hiatal hernia I was still able to have a good quality life with my old band.

You mentioned that you could not eat solid meat with your band, I could with my old band, and I can with my new band, and I am SURE once my new band gets properly restricted, I will still be able to eat a variety of healthy foods, same as with my old band.

There are MANY Bariatric SURGEONS and medical professionals that have a lap band installed, I am SURE they are able to eat a variety of Healthy food with their lap band. It's not just idiots that chooses the band, in fact I don't ANY Bariatric surgeon that have a Sleeve.

My point was it appears that I hear of different experiences with the Sleeve regarding how much someone can eat, and MANY have already reported that they had tighter restriction with the band than Sleeve, but that is understandable since the band can be manually tighten.

I was curious of how many newly post op Sleevers were able to lose a lot of weight if they were able to eat more than 1 cup of solid food. The lap band diet is SUPPOSE to be the healthiest -- hence why weight loss tends to be slower, since the band cannot be 'safely' tighten to the point of liquids.

Since our band board is mostly band to Sleevers these days, I was just curious of how you guys were able to lose weight with the capability to eat more than the most lap banders. I am not good at dieting, that is why I got my band, I don't NEED my band to stop me from eating, I need my band to HELP me stop with feeling full like Thanksgiving, and I like that brick wall where I can't eat another bite,  that's how my old band work and I believe my new band will work the same.

I only use the Block button when support turns into abuse or inaccurate information. Anything I post about the Band or Sleeve, I can back it up with Studies. I support many Band to Sleevers -- and will cheer them on with their weight loss, but what I will not support is Band to Sleeve band bashers.

 

 

I couldn't eat an entire 8 ounces for the first 2 years and still to this day, I rarely eat 8oz of food. Only if its yogurt, and even then I stop at 6oz. It's called 'just because I can, doesn't mean I should' thought process. I can eat sliders without much restriction, I can eat ice cream without issue. I CHOOSE to not do it. That's called behavior modification and changing fat girl tendencies. I don't need negative reinforcement like dumping to keep my hand out of the proverbial cookie jar. If a sleeve patient is eating that much food early out, it's them not following the rules. For the first 3 months of my sleeve, I only ate about 500-600, by 4 months I was up to 600-700 calories, I hit goal with 115lb lost in 6.5 months. Lost another 25ish pounds getting into maintenance. I'm only 5'2", maintenance weight was 125-130. I didn't eat more than 2-3 oz per meal for several months post-VSG. I ate mushy/purée foods for 2 meals a day, but even then, those puréed meals were protein focused, and still measured portions. Honestly, you back up what you state about the sleeve when it's convenient for you and when someone posts a study to counter yours, you block them. In the 4 years I've been here, you've blocked and unblocked at a minimum of 4 times. And, I have never been abusive, nor have I ever personally attacked another human's surgery choice on any of these forums. You nitpick a handful of sleeves and even with explanations from experienced revisioners, you question it.

No matter what some say, you negate the sheer facts of our lives who don't have the issues you want to point out. It's a passive aggressive, non-sensical approach to discredit another surgery type that you choose to subliminally bash and attempt to question. Just say that you don't think the sleeve is good for you because of the few topics you've read and because of the limited information and experiences you have gathered and choose to believe. It's great for others. I don't get why you focus on the sleeve so much. You've questioned all of these things multiple times. You get the same answers and still can't comprehend it. If its subject matter above your level of comprehension, just leave it alone or try to understand that what you are reporting is not the 'norm' nor the 'average'.

I could eat some solid meat on occasion with my band. Just not enough to justify keeping it in my body.

Why I focus on the Sleeve so much? Ha....

I did not know the Sleeve board existed until the band bashing started and our Lap Band board  was destroyed a few years ago and all other lap band vets left the board for GOOD. I am a researcher by nature....so I thought I was research this seemingly perfect weight loss surgery.

I knew about the Sleeve BEFORE you got your lap band, again....I never once thought about the Sleeve until all band bashing started.....I wish everyone successful and uneventful journeys regardless of which surgical path they choose and I respect those with the Sleeve and I expect those with the Sleeve to respect me as well.

First, I want to tell you that I miss you terribly and hope you will post again on the VSG board.  You are a voice of wisdom and sound judgment.  I am so glad that I looked here and found you by accident.  I hope that all is well with you and your beautiful family.

On another note, my surgeon does all four surgeries and he is very careful not to influence the decision of new patients with his personal opinions.  He presents all sides of each procedure and then has the patient choose what they can live with.  He now does about 80% VSG surgeries.  Most of his other surgeries are now revisions for RNY and band patients.  He still does a few bands, but he makes sure that the patients read, for themselves, the most current studies and research on each procedure.  He spends a very long time educating the patient first.  In the end, most of his patients choose the sleeve, but some do not.  He told us in group yesterday about a patient he has that lost 150 lbs. with the band in one year.  That is of course not typical, but he explained that he feels that everyone has to make up their own mind as to what is reasonable based on the current research.  The one thing he mentioned on Wednesday that I was not aware of, was that ghrelin actually increases quite significantly at about a year out with the band.  He told us that some people feel more hunger with the band than they did without it.  Of course the sleeve has the complete opposite effect, most people lose up to 80% of their ghrelin and often their hunger with the sleeve.  This is not true for everyone, but it is true for most people.  I, myself experienced no hunger at all for the first 6-8 months and then a mild return of some hunger.  Now, that I am 3.5 years out, I would say that I have about 50% of my the hunger that I had before the sleeve.  I am actually quite happy with it as it feels very normal to get hungry after not eating for 4 hours, but the ravenous hunger has never returned.  (Thank goodness).  My doctor feels that this is where I am going to be for the rest of my life and I could not be happier with that prediction.  I am 105 lbs. and have maintained within a 3 pounds in either direction for the past three years.  I am tiny, only 5"1" and very small boned, so this works beautifully for me.  I think that people who are banded and experience more hunger, or even the same amount of hunger have a very hard time understanding how we can maintain without the hard stop of the band.  The idea of having very little hunger is just hard to except.  I can understand this, as before the sleeve, this would have seemed impossible.  I too would have thought that I needed a physical stop in order to lose or maintain, too many diets and regains had taught me this "truth".  The sleeve actually frees me from the hunger and the cravings to such an extant that it is quite easy (although not effortless) to follow my program.  I am simply not fighting myself anymore and can eat what I my head tells me is best for me most of the time.  I still indulge and splurge on occasion, but it is now very easy to pull it in when I choose to do so.  This was never the case before surgery.  I hope this helps someone see how the sleeve works for me.  Yes, it is mostly a restrictive procedure, but the reduction in ghrelin is probably almost as important in weight loss management with the sleeve. 

I thought someone might also find this study interesting, it backs up what I have said about ghrelin and the band.  This is also true for people that lose weight without any surgery, the ghrelin is increased substantially at about a year out.  This is one of the reasons why it is so hard to maintain our weight loss when we simply dieted to lose.

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/5774931_Expression_of_ghrelin_in_fundus_is_increased_after_gastric_banding_in_morbidly_obese_patients