Band to Sleeve Revisioners - How are you able to lose weight?

I have a question for those *****vised to the Sleeve. I was lurking the Sleeve board and most Sleevers can eat WAY more than a typical lap bander WITH optimal restriction. I remember being on another board 3 years ago with a few Sleevers and they would post what they ate. 

I remember one girl mentioned that she ate for breakfast 2 eggs and 3 pieces of bacon and something else for breakfast and she was only 2 months post op. And I nearly freaked out and I was about 3 years post op with my band at the time and I could NOT eat that much for breakfast or lunch with optimal restriction.

Also, after lurking the Sleeve board yesterday, there are many that are able to eat A LOT more than a typical lap bander, so what's the secret to weight loss with the Sleeve? Both the band and Sleeve are restrictive surgeries. Keep in mind I still could eat solid food with my band, but only a few bites and my food has to be very moist with restriction.

Is it HONESTLY the dumping syndrome or sweety carby foods that make you sick?  Don't tell me you don't get hungry because I've talked to some Sleevers and they still get hungry and eat 3 meals per day.

Or is it true that some Sleevers bougies sizes are larger than others and others are able to eat a lot more than others. Also many Band to Sleeve revisioners mention that they can eat solid food better with the Sleeve than with the Band. But I find that to be odd too, because even when my band was VERY restricted I still could eat small amounts of solids without vomiting.

There is no malabsorption so if a Sleever is able to eat more than a Lap bander there has to be some other negative mechanism going on like the Bypass to keep you on track...

P.S. Also remember a poster name Greg? That revised to the Sleeve recently and he admitted to having more restriction with the band than the Sleeve and he has to stop himself from eating with the Sleeve, but as with the Band,-- he had a brick wall. The Sleeve confuse me more and more. I know when my lap band is tightly restricted, IT WILL stop me from eating, and since I fear vomiting...that's my behavior modification, I stop eating, if I don't want to slime.

Please explain..... Enquiring minds want to know....
 

Everybody is different.  Many sleevers only eat 600-800 calories.  I could never do that and don't want to do that.

I am 5 years out and can eat 1500 calories with over 100 grams of protein.  I try to keep carbs below 60.  I also eat healthy carbs with as much fiber as possible, no refined carbs.  I lose weight still on this diet.  I never hosed my metabolism by eating 600 calories a day.  I don't think you can get enough nutrition of any kind on that amount of food.

As long as I stay away from junk and keep it to healthy carbs, I lose weight.  I would lose more if I could convince myself to do regulare exercise.

With the sleeve, it is more like a lower stomach capacity instead of restriction. It is a much more natural and satifiying feeling of fullness.  The band made me feel full in my chest, not my stomach. 

Dumping on sweet foods may happen in the beginning, but I never considered it a problem, but more like deterent. 

To me me the name of the game is to eat as healthy and as much as you can and still lose weight, not restricting myself to tiny portions.  I eat a normal amount of food like any other person.

Thank you so much for sharing.......it is great to get the real scoop from the vets.

Mary this is the answer I've been looking for! the feeling full thing in the chest with the band it's not something I could ever get used to because I would still feel hungry in my tummy until the pouch contents would finally pass through into my tummy. I have been searching and searching the forums to find out if I get the sleeve if I will have more restriction but still feeling full in the tummy instead of just having that awful feeling in my chest. Also no matter how much I chewed I could never get proteins down. I can't tell you how many times I had to jump up from the table and run to the bathroom to throw up. So embarrassing when out with friends. my last question is I keep hearing virgin sleeve patients lose a lot more than those who are revision. I had my band and taken out in 2012 so I'm wondering if I would be more closer to a virgin sleeve patient than a revision?

Hi Naomi,

I don't plan to slam or defend either wls here, that is not the point. One thing I noticed in your post is that you are comparing what some sleevers can eat to what you could with your band. That is obviously your old band since you just got the new one. See, the thing is, we"re not comparing apples to apples right now. By your own admission after you met with some doctors about your new surgery you had been keeping your old band way too tight, there fore limiting yourself to just a few bites and we all know that isn't desirable. You also mentioned that you will not be doing that with your new band. Keeping that in mind I am going to try to give some answers.

I could always eat (unless my band had tightened up for some reason) about 4 oz. of dense protein and a few veggies. It varied as to if I would get hungry in between, if I did I ate a little something to hold me. I almost always got in about 1200 calories, some days more, some a few lower. That was in losing phase and in maintenance. When you compare it to what I had been eating pre lap band it is no wonder I lost weight. With the sleeve it is a bit different. A newish sleever (up to about 6 months or so) CANNOT eat more than a few bites. I am just now, at nearly five months out, able to eat about 1.5 oz of dense protein and the veggies may make me too full so sometimes they are snacks, like Jean does.

The average sleever gets in about 4-600 calories in for a while. Most go to about 800 in the losing phase, but as that goes on some increase. That is the normal surgeons recommendation for the first 6 months. After that comes the increase and yes, they have to be very careful where those calories come from. Most choose to add more dense protein, just like bandsters. My own case was different since at the time of my revision I was just a few pounds over my goal weight. My nut recommended going to about 1200 calories as fast as I could. I just got there. I did lose some, about 25 pounds, and am now 10 pounds lower than my lowest with the band. I would have been happy with that weight but this is ok, too. Now that I can eat more I am going to have to watch what I eat. Until now I had to eat things with full fat, liquids with calories, sugar in things, without resorting to garbage. I am in the process of desugaring and that is tough because, of course, I am addicted, always have been. Fortunately most don't have this experience.

You mentioned the dumping. Some of us get it. Most don't. I do if I get too much sugar. Dear Jean gets it with any, plus sugar alcohols. That sucks. Of course no one mentioned this before surgery just as there is a whole lot about the band that I didn't know until after, including the random tightening and the increased number of revisions that were not elective. Water over the dam.

Yes, some stretch their pouches. As a bandster I knew how to eat around it too. Once again, our wls is not done on our heads. We will continue to struggle with this disease for the rest of our lives. My point of all this is to say that there is no perfect wls and those who think there is are fools. Those who don't follow the rules are doomed to fail in the wl battle. I guess the only ones that avoid that are those who choose DS and I doubt all of them do either.

I will say it again, I loved my band and will never regret it. There were some things that I didn't like but over all it was a great tool. I mourned it when I couldn't keep it but I also felt very betrayed by it. The manufactures had lied. The statistics I studied were not complete. I hate that but it is what it is. I am adapting to my sleeve after my initial rough start. It seems to be similar to living with my band at this point. Not exact but some better, some worse, just details overall.

Much as we wi**** there is no perfect wls. Until one comes along we just live with the tools we have and deal with it. I can't bash the band because it gave me a new life, yet I see some flaws more clearly, too. I can't claim the sleeve is the best ever because it has it's faults. I would never consider bypass because of what  I know about it's major failures. DS was never an option for me due to my osteoporosis. What's left? Exactly what I have done.

To those who try to wade through this novel  I apologize. I have been trying to learn to keep posts shorter. I failed today.

Sue the novelist

Sue,

Thanks for some of the explanation, I am assuming  MOST Sleevers have extremely tight restriction the first 6 months, this is why most lose most of their weight quickly. But even with my OLD BAND, I did not have tight restriction up until after 6 months post op. Although I did not get my first fill until 4 months post op, I was exercising daily/walking and following rules to a T is the reason why I lost quickly with my first band.

I was a bit confused on how Sleevers are able to lose weight quickly ...eating that much. Let's be real, most people have to darn near starve to get the scales to move with or without weight loss surgery and WE ALL KNOW that Weight loss surgery patients are NOT COMPLIANT to a DIET, HENCE why we NEED A WEIGHT LOSS SURGERY TOOL. If I could DIET I would not need a weight loss surgery tool. Also, if I am ABLE to eat too much, I CANNOT STICK to  DIET for long periods of time, HENCE why I NEED restriction.

Regarding tight restriction WITH MY OLD BAND I NEVER KEPT A TOO TIGHT BAND for long periods of time, hence all my unfills and refills over the years. What I consider good optimal restriction with the band is eating about 1/2 to 1 cup of SOLID food per meal and that equates TO ABOUT A FEW BITES OF SOLID FOOD. And when my band is optimally restricted, I CANNOT EAT a whole Banana nor a whole apple.)

My lap band DID NOT SLIP nor did I have esophagus problems with my old band, I was not having eating problems or food intolerance, I had a hiatal hernia -- and my revision was not urgent, but needed if I wanted to use my band again with restriction.

I think you responded to me that you could never eat 1 cup of Grits with your band when you had it, but I CAN, with no restriction, and I could ALWAYS eat soft foods easily with my old band too. My band has NEVER limited me from eating ALL FOODS, I just could not eat much of anything when I was tightly restricted.

I just was just confused about the Sleeve and the restriction levels tend to vary in many. Personally if I could EAT two eggs and could eat more than 2 cups of food, I would NEVER lose weight, that's my point. I could MAINTAIN on that, but I can't get the scales to move if I eat too much.

There is NO way I could  eat 4 oz of dense protein IF I wanted to lose weight with my band, it has be about 2 oz per meal or less for ME. If I am in maintenance mode I would probably eat more. I've been at this losing game for a long time now and there is NO way I could lose acceptable weight eating that much. If I wanted to keep my meals between 600-800 calories per day, eating 4 oz of dense protein per meal would be too much.

Also remember I AM EXTREMELY KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT THE BAND AND HOW MUCH TO EAT....I've been at this going on 8 years. My band was pretty much EMPTY for the last 2 years...hence why I gained back from a size 8/10 to size 14. I think I still did pretty good with NO restriction for so long.

Edited to add: In the Lap band Guide it mentions that when Lap banders have "optimal restriction" GREEN ZONE, the ideal meal size is about 1 cup of SOLID food, give or take, some banders have a little less and some a little more restriction and it will vary depending several factors.

A great and fair reply Sue the novelist!

Sure enjoyed the novel!!!! Thanks for posting this.....it is great to read as a soon-to-be newbie band to sleeve patient.

I have a question for those *****vised to the Sleeve. I was lurking the Sleeve board and most Sleevers can eat WAY more than a typical lap bander WITH optimal restriction. That's the opposite of what I have observed, not just here on OH but in my surgeon's other sleeve patients (who are 1st time WLS patients and not comparing their sleeve to a band.) I remember being on another board 3 years ago with a few Sleevers and they would post what they ate. 

I remember one girl mentioned that she ate for breakfast 2 eggs and 3 pieces of bacon and something else for breakfast and she was only 2 months post op. And I nearly freaked out and I was about 3 years post op with my band at the time and I could NOT eat that much for breakfast or lunch with optimal restriction.

Also, after lurking the Sleeve board yesterday, there are many that are able to eat A LOT more than a typical lap bander, so what's the secret to weight loss with the Sleeve? Both the band and Sleeve are restrictive surgeries. Keep in mind I still could eat solid food with my band, but only a few bites and my food has to be very moist with restriction. The same is true for me as a sleevester - just a few bites of solid food, and it must be moist.

Is it HONESTLY the dumping syndrome or sweety carby foods that make you sick? Yes, that's usually what makes me dump, but I also dump if I eat too fast or too much. The too fast happens when I get too hungry. The too much happens when I'm not eating solid food. I still haven't figured out my new "soft stop" satiety signals. Don't tell me you don't get hungry because I've talked to some Sleevers and they still get hungry and eat 3 meals per day.

Or is it true that some Sleevers bougies sizes are larger than others yes and others are able to eat a lot more than others. Also many Band to Sleeve revisioners mention that they can eat solid food better with the Sleeve than with the Band. Not me. But I find that to be odd too, because even when my band was VERY restricted I still could eat small amounts of solids without vomiting. I haven't PB'd since being sleeved, though once I felt like I might. After living with the band for over 4 years, I'm extremely paranoid about PB'ing, which is probably a good thing.

There is no malabsorption (actually, there is some malabsorption, mostly of micronutrients) so if a Sleever is able to eat more than a Lap bander there has to be some other negative mechanism what do you mean by a "negative" mechanism? going on like the Bypass to keep you on track...

P.S. Also remember a poster name Greg? That revised to the Sleeve recently and he admitted to having more restriction with the band than the Sleeve and he has to stop himself from eating with the Sleeve, but as with the Band,-- he had a brick wall. The Sleeve confuse me more and more. I know when my lap band is tightly restricted, IT WILL stop me from eating, and since I fear vomiting...that's my behavior modification, I stop eating, if I don't want to slime.

Please explain..... Enquiring minds want to know....

Naomi, I completely understand your curiosity about this, but the problem with your argument is that it's not fair or accurate to apply all those different idiosyncrasies to every sleeve or sleevester. For example, my brother and I had the same parents. We both favor both parents, but my dad had curly brown hair and my mom had straight blonde hair. If I had straight brown hair and my brother had curly blonde hair, that doesn't mean we're not the children of those 2 people. So one person who was sleeved with a 40 bougie might be able to eat more than I can but may experience no physical hunger. And I was sleeved with a 34 bougie and can't eat a lot, but I experience constant physical hunger. I guess the message here is that we're all unique, with unique gastrointestinal anatomy, endocrine systems, nervous systems, etc., etc. People respond differently to sleeve surgery just the way they respond differently to the band.

Lord, I hope you understood all that!

Jean,

Thanks for your explanation! I think IT'S FAIR to say that each person lap band experience WILL BE DIFFERENT ALSO. When people say they can't eat solid food with the band and have pain EVEN with an EMPTY band I can't relate to this because I've always been able to eat healthy food with my band even when it was tightly restricted.

I guess every Sleever has a different sized bougie and restriction will vary for each individual which IS quit scary. What if the surgeon makes it too tight or too loose? That is the thing that scares me about the Sleeve.

We all know sometimes it takes tweaking the band to get optimal restriction and sometimes it takes going back and forth a few times. So yes, NO weight loss surgery is perfect, but like I said I've seen too many experiences with the Sleeve for me to really understand it. Some people say they don't dump, some say they do and it's horrible, some say they dump early on, some say they don't dump until after 1-2 years post op. I guess I was confused about the dumping aspect because Sleevers are not suppose to dump.

But based on recent studies dumping syndrome and Hypoglycemia is a side effect that many Sleevers have if they eat high fats, too many carbs or sweets -- so I guess they are learning about the Sleeve as time goes by since they did not have many long term studies or clinical experience with it as a stand alone wls in the US.

Edited to add: I guess what I meant by negative mechanism..such as dumping to keep people from sweets, hence better weight loss. Just like the Bypass, but overtime many learn to eat around dumping. I remember at my surgeons office over 8 years ago before I even decided on getting the band, there were a few Bypassers in my surgeons office and they told me how they STILL ate donuts and they "TIMED" their dumping, meaning they will eat their sweets and lie down at home until that bad feeling went away. So I guess "IN TIME" people will learn to eat around dumping as they learn to eat around any weight loss surgery.