Biggest Mistake of the Lap band is discontinuing the 4cc/10cm VG bands

Yep, I said it -- and it will probably be the demise of the band. Allergan made a BIG MISTAKE of discontinuing the 4cc/10m and Vanguard (VG) bands, When I got my band Inamed was the manufacturer. I am wondering if their REAL reason for no longer making the older 4cc/10cm and VG bands was being more prone to erosion (as my PA mentioned).  I've known MANY that bands did not erode, even with my hernia and gastritis my  band has not eroded.

Even with pouch and esophageal dilations that many old timers use to have they use to HEAL more easily with the OLDER BANDS. My OWN band healed EASILY when it almost slipped over 7 years ago WITHOUT SURGERY.  I've known MANY that had the older bands that had REPEATED small slippages and they healed themselves WITHOUT SURGERY .

For me, going on 8 years, I've always been able to eat small amounts of solids regardless of how tight my band was, I've never had nausea. I rarely have reflux or heartburn, unless I get filled too tightly.

This is why when my burning started (due to a hernia) I could not take it because its NOT normal for me to be on a PPi constantly with my band.

Also I've been on the board a LONG TIME and it just occurred to me recently, GEE, band bashing ONLY STARTED AFTER the AP band was introduced. Also I noticed weight loss with the older bands was AS BETTER OR SIMILAR to Sleeve and Bypass especially within 2 years.

Please don't get me wrong, I am not saying that those who get the AP band will not lose all of their weight, or will not love them because many do. But OVERALL from what I've seen over the years regarding WEIGHT LOSS and patient satisfaction, the AP Band CANNOT TOUCH weight loss compared to 4cc/10cm band nor is the patient happy with them compared with the older bands.

As a matter of FACT, when I was on the boards from 2005 up to 2007, which was the height of HAPPY lap banders ON THIS BOARD, there were as MANY REPORTING QUICK WEIGHT LOSS JUST LIKE THE SLEEVE BOARD IS NOW, people losing 100 pounds in 4-6 months with the 4cc/10m and VG BANDS....

That DID NOT HAPPEN WITH THE NEW AP BANDS......on AVERAGE....But this does not say you can't lose quickly with the AP BAND....

For the last 6 years I have NOT DIETED ONE DAY with my band, NOR have I followed any type of Weigh****chers program, however, in my first few years, I drank proteins shakes,( sometimes), and ate tuna, egg salad, THAT WAS THE CLOSEST THING to a DIET that I've EATEN WITH MY BAND OVER 8 YEARS AND I STILL lost weight quickly (even eating sweets and carbs on occasion) and KEPT my weight off over the years, I NEVER WORKED OUT HEAVILY in the gym, but I WALKED about 1 mile 4-5 days a week during weight loss.

The biggest thing my 4cc band does for me is KEEP MY MEALS SMALL AND HUNGER AT BAY....WHEN FILLED PROPERLY...and YES THERE IS A BRICK WALL TO STOP ME, where I can't eat another bite without slimming....

Do I think the Sleeve is MUCH BETTER than the new AP BAND? YES...based on the complaints/complications and little to slow weight loss due to harder to find the GREEN zone of optimal restriction.

Do I think the Sleeve is MUCH BETTER than the OLDER BANDS 4cc/10cm or VG bands? Absolutely NOT....The older 4cc/10cm banders don't have many problems or GERD or dumping, the 4cc bands REALLY WORKS like it is suppose to for  many old timers and it's REALLY adjustable long term, unlike the newer AP band for many.

Do I think the Bypass is MUCH BETTER than the AP BAND? SHORT TERM, YES, the bypass on average has quicker weight loss than all bands and can heal diabetes..LONG TERM, not sure since there is a high complication rate with the AP bands.

Do I think the Bypass is MUCH BETTER than the OLDER BANDS 4cc/10cm VG band? Short term, it depends, some people use to lose as quicker with their 4cc bands than the bypass, but the bypass on average has quicker weight loss than all bands and can heal diabetes...but LONG TERM - NO.

Do I think the Sleeve is better than the Bypass...that I can't comment on....

If I was FORCED to revise to another weight loss surgery TODAY --- It would be the bypass, why? Because, I've experienced the great effectiveness of the 4cc band and I am sure the AP Band nor the Sleeve would offer me the same effectiveness in order to MOVE weight loss quickly ESPECIALLY since I would be a revision patient.  Also the risk of GERD is too high with the Sleeve. I HONESTLY don't believe Band to Sleeve is that effective (for MOST) not saying that all Band to Sleeve will not have great weight loss because a few do, but MOST don't.  I believe VIRGIN Sleevers tend to lose more weight and have less problems than Band to Sleeve.

But if I revised to the bypass, I am SURE I would be dealing with more HERNIA related surgeries in my near future and risk anemia and vitamin deficiencies based on my OWN health history and I SURE DO NOT WANT TO GIVE UP CARBS/SUGAR forever and long term I will probably have to diet much harder and exercise more than I would long term with my current 4cc band...so I doubt I would get the bypass if I was not forced.

But if I have to get my band removed due to my hernia, I probably will not revise to nothing and just go back to weigh****chers.

Now...can you understand WHY I want to KEEP MY 4CC/10CM BAND as long as I can?

Sorry I just woke up from a hard scary night from remnants of hurricane Sandy....and boy it was scary...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The "biggest mistake" with the lapband is that it's not meant to be in a human body.It can't help but irritate everything around it.  It's damaging to a degree that is not fully divulged, no matter if it's the "old" type or the newer.  It's NOT all about weight loss. I lost almost all of my excess weight, but in doing so, I ended up with nerve damage, esophageal problems, gastritis, hiatal hernia, and a host of other physical maladies. I have pain every single stinkin' day from the damage the band did. It's not as bad as when I had the band in my body, but it's a reminder, most definitely.

 

You are making excuse after excuse for keeping your band, when in reality, to save yourself from further damage, you need to have that thing removed, whether you decide to revise to another procedure or not. You're grasping at straws here... how many surgeons have advised you to have the band removed now? Don't make things worse for yourself, seriously. I fought band removal tooth and nail and I wish to God I hadn't.  I waited until the moment I could no longer even lift my head off the bed... and then it was life or death. I could barely breathe and I was still saying, "If I get the band removed, I'll be fat again!"  Of course, I couldn't even walk or stand up at that point. But the "fat fear" kept me from seeing the truth and taking care of my overall health.

 

I know we've not been friends, but I don't wish harm upon you. Seriously, Naomi, take into consideration what the medical experts have told you and do it soon before you're harmed badly.  I won't advise revision because I didn't do it myself. I have gained back all the weight I lost, in spite of working out, etc.   And while I'll never give up trying to lose weight, also know that there are much worse things than being fat... chronic pain is infinitely worse.  I hope you make a decision before it gets to a point where you regret not making one earlier.

HA! the so called medical experts were trying to shove the Sleeve down my throat and this was THE SAME PA who a few months ago told me that the Sleeve did not have enough long term data for it to be "trusted".

Apparently they are having a LOT OF AP BAND FAILURES, he accidently admitted that the AP is not as good as the older 4cc/VG bands and they are not getting ENOUGH new patients to keep them in practice, since they only do bands.

So what do they do? They are now jumping on board with the Sleeve cash hog that he talked bad about a few months ago. IF I was a brand new patient seeking weight loss surgery TODAY, I WOULD NOT GET THE AP BAND, I probably would choose the Sleeve or BYPASS  if I had a BMI over 40, not sure what I would do if I was a light weight. (probably would just do weigh****chers..lol) in my opinion it's not worth the risks and problems if you have only 50 pounds to lose with the new AP band long term.

MY surgeons PA very WORDS last year..."we are getting more calls now for bypass and sleeve folks that no longer have restriction to put a band around them after 3-5 years post op....do I trust them now? Absolutely NOT, in fact I don't deem them credible, this surgical team DID NOT PUT MY BAND IN...THANK GOD....

These surgeons will not CARE if I am 3-4 years post op with my Sleeve, and if I am having horrible GERD or problems that can't be reversed, or care if I can never enjoy an occasional sweet treat, or have other issues, they would have gotten their money and I probably WILL NEVER need to see them again and I will get pushed out to a PCP or internist  just like everyone else to take care of any long term stomach issues with my Sleeve, I am sure they probably don't get reported since they really don't have to track Sleeve issues like they do the band long term.

Currently I am NOT having "band issues", I've had my band long enough to KNOW what band issues are ...band issues are specifically, reflux. vomiting and sliming and food intolerance...that's not my problem. Can the band cause esophagitis, gastritis or hernia? Of course they can....but THESE problems can also occur even if you don't have a band because I've had gastritis and esophagitis prior to having a band and they were cured with diet, exercise and medication...SAME THING APPLY IF I HAVE A BAND.

 If for some 'strange' reason that my band needs to come out, that's OK TOO, but I won't get a surgery that I am not comfortable with just because I have a hernia., Who knows I can 'wait it out" until Allergan get their "%hit" together to produce a band which is safe and effective because I don't believe the current AP is such.

Regarding my current surgical team...I NO LONGER TRUST THEM ..and I  will not let them touch me or my band, I will find a new surgeon to really SEE IF MY BAND NEEDS TO BE REMOVED, if so, then I will do that and get my hernia repaired and move on with my life, but I am NOT going to remove my band if it really does not need to be removed.

I go by HOW I FEEL and now I am feeling better. And GUESS WHAT? I AM LONG TERM going on 8 years post op, and if my band was going to turn on me and do evil flips...I would've felt it by now.  I have  only had ONE surgical team that suggested my band come out...ONLY ONE and they are pushing the Sleeve.

If you want my "honest" opinion, I don't think they've hit the "perfect" solution to weight loss surgery because ALL of them currently have "issues' that I am not honestly willing to live with forever.

Nic, I don't doubt your issues that you are having -- and I am sincerely sorry for all the misery your band caused you, -- you should know by NOW ALL BANDS ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL , and I've had my band inside of me A LOT LONGER than you've had your band, also there is NO WAY I would allow them to remove my band WITHOUT repairing my hernia (to leave me permanently damaged) --something that that other surgeon was suggesting, he has no interest of helping me with MY pain, he is only interested in Sleeving me without CARING that the Sleeve actually causes MORE GERD, something that I am trying to avoid. I appreciate your insight tho.

" I HONESTLY don't believe Band to Sleeve is that effective (for MOST) not saying that all Band to Sleeve will not have great weight loss because a few do, but MOST don't. "

So you don't spend much time on the sleeve boards do you?  MOST say the sleeve does what the band promised.

"Apparently they are having a LOT OF AP BAND FAILURES, he accidently admitted that  "

So your own LB surgeon has admitted the band is not good

"They are now jumping on board with the Sleeve cash hog that he talked bad about a few months ago."

So, your  Lap Band surgeon that was doing the Band, which is the true cash hog with the fills and re-surgeries for issues, is switching to the sleeve due to lots of band failures.  He is now just a greedy ******* isn't this the wonder of Band Kings?

"IF I was a brand new patient seeking weight loss surgery TODAY, I WOULD NOT GET THE AP BAND, I probably would choose the Sleeve or BYPASS  "

So why are you on here ever day telling the new patient to do just that.  All these new patients come here and you tell them how great the band is.  They all tell you Thank You for telling them what they want to hear.  They sing your praises and quote you on their walls.

FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE CAN'T YOU JUST START A POST STATING " I WOULD NOT GET THE AP BAND," Save all these newbies from a mistake.

 

 

 

 

Just because *I* would not get the AP band does not mean it will NOT work for newly banded people. I would not get it mainly because I already have the smaller 4cc band.  I am NOT in the business of telling others NOT to pick a particular weight loss surgery whether it be the Band, Sleeve or RNY.

Hopefully people pick and choose a weight loss surgery that fits them medically and that they can live with and not by what people say on a message board. I've researched the AP band and find it not to be a good fit for ME, does this mean it may not be a good fit for someone else? NO, based on studies, I can post them if you need me to, the AP band is not as effective as the older smaller bands and I have the older band, so I probably will not be as happy with it if I can't get the same type of restriction that my older band provides.

And overall those who got the bands from 2003-2006 and had the smaller bands were much more happier than those who are getting the newer bands today, this does not mean every single person that had the older bands were happy, successful or complication free, I am going by averages.

So NO I don't think it's wrong to SUPPORT those those WHO WANT THE NEW AP BANDS...because it may work great for them, it's not my call to say ALL AP BANDS ARE BAD...I AM JUST UPSET THAT THE OLDER BANDS WERE DISCONTINUED WHEN THEY'VE BEEN PROVEN TO BE MORE EFFECTIVE THAN THE NEWER BANDS.

If I got my band removed next week would I get the Sleeve or RNY? NO, if I was a brand new patient and did not really know about much about the Sleeve or RNY would I choose the band NOW...NO.

 

Regarding the Band to Sleeve revisions not that effective....Oh trust me lap banders have been revising to the Sleeve for the last 4-5 years this is NOTHING NEW....I've seen many that told me that their bands were more effective and they had MORE restriction with the band, if you want me to dig up older post on the REVISION BOARD I can do this....But I've had many over the years tell me this privately also, but they did not say anything too negative with the Sleeve they just said they had more restriction with the band....

I am not here to be biased about the band or sleeve...I report only things that I've experienced even if it's negative with the band.

 

Edited to Add: Why is it ....when people get horrible reflux and GERD with the Sleeve, they are told to pop a PPi? But when someone experience reflux or GERD with the band it must be removed? I don't get that

How do you explain the number of old 4cc bands having to come out due to complications?  If in fact the old band was better, why the need to develop newer, bigger bands?  I'm just a bit confused by the circular nature of your recent posting...hope you figure it out. 

Based on what I am told, maybe you can call Allergan, but I was told the older bands were more prone to erosion, since they are "higher pressured bands", although they were more effective from a weight loss standpoint -- that was the reason behind discontinuing the 4cc/10cm/VG bands....but the bigger newer AP band system was designed with a "lower pressure" and was "suppose to be" less prone to band erosion or complications...

Edited to add: there are MANY long term bandsters that still have their 4cc bands, they just don't post much, I never indicated that the older 4cc bands did not have compllications...what I have noticed is that there seem to be just as more complications in the last few years with the "supposedly better newer bands" and lesser weight loss overall.

But what I've seen with my own eyes on THIS BOARD, there have been MORE COMPLAINTS of complications of band slippage and slower weight loss than the older bands on average (there is data to prove this) and erosions WITH THE NEWER AP BANDS, I am not sure about the Realize bands, they've had complaints too......so Allergen NEEDS TO GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD to make a better band similar to the older band if they want to stay in business....that's all I am saying....

I think you might have a valid point about pressure in the bands.  A woman from my support group went in for a fill and, after the nurse tell her that she wasn't exercising enough and was eating too much, repeated her intake and exercise to the surgeon (my original surgeon, BTW) who gave her a fill of a higher density because she WAS on track on with intake and exercise.  It was the first and only time I had heard fill can have different densities.

Allergen started making bands much more similar to realize when they hit the market to stay comparable and current with the competitor. I am neutral because I'm just researching, but from what I've found, they swapped efficacy and high pressure, for perceived safety profile improvement with low pressure, possibly to the detriment of the sensation of saiety and associated weight loss.

The wonder of this person's reply is that she is RESEARCHING. All I see Naomi doing is telling what she has heard. Which looks to be a pretty narrow amount of information from one or two surgeons and PA's. Not to mention she simply cannot make any cogent arguments, simply blurting out her opinion and her experience. When I first come here in 2007 this board was flooded with Old Timers losing their basnd and revising to the new band. That was the NORM on here. Not a bunch of happy banders who never had a problem. I do hope people look at the studies. Because the real wonder of ANY band is that it can be removed. The problem is there CAN be so much damage. I also recall that many of those old timers lost those original bands and were not able to revise to the new band at all.