If you're being catty, that's a good thing. I love cats! I have spent so much time in my life upset over crap like this. I'm with Becky. I would talk to Pam about it. Let her know how you feel. If you are feeling these feelings, there is a reason for them. I would be VERY uncomfortable with them working together. Of course, there is nothing you can do about that now. I can't imagine ever being in a romantic relationship again because I simply cannot deal with crap like that...and there is always crap like that in some form or another. I only hope that, if I do end up with another relationship that I am secure in myself enough to walk away if need be without it destroying me. That said, I am not saying you will ever have to walk away, but you are better than any past, present or future relationship between Pam and Debbie. You are a wonderful person, a true friend, beautiful inside and out. You should not have to be dealing with this. However, you are dealing with it, so hang in there and do not let it make you feel less than or insecure. Pam needs to make it clear to Debbie that YOU are the one and she is not. It's not your place to get in Debbie's face. It's Pam's place to tell her to back off. This is just my opinion, but I have spent so much time in my life worrying about some woman of her "type" who was trying to have a relationship with someone I was supposed to be having a relationship with. I should have, in all cases, made it clear to my SO that it had to stop or I was out of there. And I should have followed through on the "out of there." Pam might be enjoying the attention, but she should have told you the truth about Debbie to begin with and she needs to stop the friendship right now. It's hurting you and that should be reason enough for her to cut the ties. We love you, Joni

LOL...Kim, no...I don't think you're being catty. You have some concerns and those concerns are understandable. Just don't let them carry more weight than they should. Talk to Pam...tell her how this is making you feel. Let her know that you're uncomfortable with how much contact they are having considering their past history. If it were me, I'd be bothered by it too. Mike had a friend that he used to date...and they even slept together...but it just didn't work out. They were still friends for a long time...but didn't see each other much. We ended up running into her one night at a club when I was doing kareoke...turns out she was a member of a local email group that I was in. So I ended up seeing her a good bit. I was friendly with her, but I never really trusted her...she just made my wierd SOM (****O-Meter) go off...lol I trusted him...I just didn't trust her. I don't know...in my book, there are just certain things you don't do...and that's one of them. (((((((((((Hugs you tight))))))))))))) Hope it resolves itself soon. Becky

And the drama continues......there is this "lady" (and I'm being nice here) who has been a casual aquaintence of my SO for about 4 years (we've been together for 2 years)....let's call this "lady" Debbie. Ok, before Pam and I got together, she and Debbie hung out practically every weekend at this little neighborhood club ..... they would dance, sing, drink, flirt, etc.....along with about 10-15 other people. Debbie had been married for 15 years and her husband worked out of town. Once Pam and I got together, she stopped going to the club ..... we went maybe twice.....and it ultimately closed down. So in the past 2 years, pam's told me when Debbie's called her (about once every couple of months)....once we were invited to a party and saw her there. Ok, I'm trying to cut to the chase here.....anytime we've been around each other (Debbie and myself) there is A LOT of tension between us. Pam has tried to tell me that there was never anything between them.....but about 3 months after we got married I was organizing/cleaning and found a valentines card from Debbie that was obviously not intended for a 'friend'....I left it laying on the dresser so pam would know I saw it, but I never said anything about it.....I wanted her to know that I knew they had been more than just partying buds, but really wasn't jealous because I thought, 'if that's what she wanted she wouldn't have come looking for you'. Right? AND other people (friends of Pams) have in casual conversation mentioned that Pam and Debbie dated.....so about a month ago pam comes home and says, Guess who called me today.....Debbie.....her husband is leaving her....met someone else blah blah blah. So I listen to the whole story and in the back of my mind (don't blast me for this one) I'm thinking, "ok, I gotta start paying attention to the cell phone bill." I'm not a jealous person, but I do not trust women who are on the rebound or men for that matter. So Saturday night, we go meet some friends at a club to hear a band play......and who walks in? You guessed it: Debbie. She's "seeing" someone in the band. So of course, she pulls up a chair and joins us. I was very nice to her.....she kept going on and on about how good I looked.....how did you lose so much weight (first time ever I didn't say WLS....I said, I quit eating) Pam acted really surprised to see her so I don't think it was planned or anything like that. As the night goes on (and more alchohol is consumed).....she gets more and more flirty.....Pam was not encouraging it but not really discouraging it either.....and the people we were there with kept asking me if I was ok....I was like, "hello, I know who she is going home with".....and just kind of blew it off. I hate to air my dirty laundry in public, you know? AND I am very secure in my marriage, so it really is not a big deal to me. Pam has a great personality and people like her.....I was glad she was having a good time. We rarely go out to clubs and I was glad she was enjoying herself. Last night, Pam comes home and tells me that her boss hired Debbie as their bookkeeper. I was like, "how did she know there was a job opening there?". She says that Debbie knows one of the secretaries there and that's how she knew.....but I can't help but wonder if Pam's good word (her Boss loves her) is what really got her the job. I'm very confused over this because 1. I feel that pam left out parts of their past relationship to me (maybe because Debbie was married???) and I guess that creates doubt that she is being totally honest with me now. 2. A couple of weeks ago, Pam was a 'special guest' on a local radio show....I got up to listen and guess heard Debbie call in and was telling the host that he should have Pam on every week because she is the best in the business. Ok, what are the chances that this woman (who probably was partying till 4 am)....got up to listen to a gardening show at 6 am on a Saturday unless she knew her 'friend was going to be on there? Which means Pam had to tell her.....which means they talk more than I know about. 3. I do not consider myself a jealous person but know this type of woman....she kept telling me Sat nite , "you're so lucky Kim. You got the best one out there." And yes, I know I did and told her so. So what do you all think? I do not want this to be an issue......and am peace loving.....but I am not above slinging up in this woman's face and telling her to back off if the need arises. And without talking bad about anybody that I really don't know.....I know her 'type'. We all do. Thanks for listening to me ramble (again) Kim

I would have probably packed a bag and gone to a hotel. I cannot deal with kids and I have lost a lot of friends on account of it. I can't help it. My nerves won't take it. I can't deal with noise and fast movements and kids...well, they're noisy and they move around really fast and I just can't be in that kind of environment. And you can't TELL them, look, Joni has a medical/emotional problem and you are going to have to be quiet and not move around so much. They just look at you like you're nuts and then they start throwing things and screaming at the top of their lungs. And then there's the privacy issue. I am a very private person, to the extent that even my family hasn't been in my apartment and I've lived here for over a year. I have to trust someone a LOT to let them in my apartment and kids just come in and start going through your purse, closets, looking under the bed, pulling out drawers, etc. I can't stand it. I used to have a friend whose brother-in-law would come to visit for A MONTH at a time with his wife and 3 kids. He was in the Army, so would have long leaves. They had a baby and my friend was expected to change the baby's diapers, do all the housework, wash all their clothes, do all the cooking, etc. She blew up at them one time and told them they were going to have to AT LEAST change their baby's diapers! Their response was: "We're on vacation! We're not doing anything!" She finally told them they were going to have to go on vacation somewhere else! They got mad and left and don't speak to her anymore, which is just fine with my friend. I don't think you are having an adverse affect from the Effexor. I think you are having an adverse affect because those people won't control their kid! I would definitely have a calm discussion with Pam about it. Something needs to be done because if hurricanes this year are the way they were last year, these people will be back. I'm with Sandy too....get the basement where they can stay down there more. Of course, if it were like any kids I've ever seen, they would all be in there with you, no matter where you were or how pleasant you had made the basement for them. I do the hermit thing for the most part and stay to myself more than anyone I know. I have been called "a hermit" by so many people. I have one friend from my childhood who always tells me I need to seek psychiatric help for "my problem." Well, I get psychiatric help all the time and the general consensus is that if I enjoy my own company, that is not a bad thing. I personally think that people who need to have tons of people around them all the time, who can't stand their own company need psychiatric help, but I wouldn't be so rude as to tell them that. I was this way even when I was thin, but much more since I've become heavy. Everywhere I go, strangers, friends, family all look at me with disapproval because of my weight. Who the hell would want to go out and be subjected to that when they can be at home with books, fabric, television and the internet? I enjoy my own company. I can take crowds in small doses...a few hours for a family reunion, lunch with friends (especially if there's gonna be cheese dip,) Wal-Mart makes me nuts, but it's something that has to be done...you know what I mean. But loud people in my apartment...nope, can't deal with it. Anyway, just wanted to add my sentiments that you were not out of line by not being happy in that situation. Not everyone in the world is "Aunt Bee," and even she got flustered on occasion! On the other hand, you can take some comfort in the fact that they don't live with you all the time! That would be awful! Love you, Joni

Michael Cappalone from the BB list posted this about busting a plateau the other day. I didn't ask him if it would be okay to post his post here, but I'm sure he wouldn't mind...he's such a sweetheart. It's about shocking the system and he has used it to get off plateaus and other people have too. This is for after WLS, of course, but I remember back in the days when I could still diet and lose weight. I would go on a certain amount of calories a day. I would always weigh every single day, even though some people say don't too that. I do...and I have a reason for this which takes too long to explain, but anyway I would weigh every single day. I remember times when, after dieting for months and month, there would be a family reunion or Thanksgiving or something where I would abandon the diet for the day and eat like a pig. Then the next morning, I would hang my head and go to the scales like I was going to the gallows, only to be delighted that I had lost 4-5 lbs. since the day before! I could never explain it, but I guess my system was shocked enough to lose weight. Anyway, here is what he posted and he knows a lot about WLS and is below goal, so I trust him.... Here it is: I first read about "shocking the system" on another surgery website, and I couldn't believe it, but time after time this seemed to work for people, so I began using it. It's a chemical reaction that occurs in the body and I really don't pretend to understand it, but here is basically it: Day 1) Eat your normal meals, but incorporate high carb foods (the BAD carbs (NOT SUGAR!), like white flour and pasta and such, if you can tolerate them without feeling sick). For example, have toast or waffles in the morning, then for lunch have a sandwich on white bread (yes, white bread! Can you believe it?) with some potato chips (the fat free ones are fine, the key here is carbs), and then at dinner have some potatoes or rice or bread or pasta with your meal. Pasta can even BE your meal! For dessert, have a nice piece of sugar free pie or sugar free cake or cookies (these are also high in carbs, but zero sugar). Day 2) Completely cut out all carbs (as much as possible) - go on liquid proteins, and LEAN animal proteins, i.e. chicken breast, lean beef, tuna, etc. Do not eat carbs this day, and also try and eat low fat. This means low fat cheese if you must have cheese, etc. Day 3 through Day 7) SLOWLY re-introduce some of the healthy carbs back into your diet - you know, whole grain carbs, vegetable carbs - these types of carbs which are LOW on the GLYCEMIC INDEX. Try and use a nice percentage ratio of 70/20/10 as the end result. If you use fitday.com (it's free!), you can easily track this. You want to try and have 70% of your calories from lean animal and liquid proteins (try and get in 70-100 grams), 20 percent of calories from carbs, and 10% of calories from fat. This should have you back on a downwards track of losing weight. Also, during this period, KEEP DRINKING your water and taking your vitamins! Now again, I am not sure how to explain the science behind this, but it has to do with blood sugar and metabolism and such. All I know is that this has ALWAYS worked to "re-start" me when I hit a slump, and it's been great.