running and weight training

 Last year I never got my strength training off the ground and didn't start it during marathon training season.  This year I started training in late March.  I've been working out with my trainer on Thursday nights and doing my long run Saturday morning.  I've found my legs are getting tired faster than I think they should.  I'm wondering if it is the Thursday night workout.  I told my trainer I didn't want  to do legs tonight and he is of the opinion that the workout tonight should not impact my run.  I didn't do legs tonight so I'll see if it makes a difference on Saturday.

I was wondering what everyone is doing about weight training for legs and running.  Any thoughts, theories or experiences?

I don't really have any advice, Mary since I don't do strength training with my legs.  I do spin classes, but that's about it.  I guess I don't think I need it since all my cardio uses legs.  Since your legs get more tired than you think they should, maybe try doing the legs earlier in the week so they have time to fully recover before your long runs.  I'm with you on not doing legs on Thurs and long runs on Sat.

Linn

When I was doing it all,  I would either do legs after I finished the long run or the next day.  Sure they were shot but I still felt like I got a good workout in.  I would never do them the day before running.  A lot of the lifters that I talk to talk about second day soreness.  That would lead me to believe that there is something to your legs being junk the second day after lifting.  I agree with Linn.  If your long run goes well this week, try swiching to an earlier day in the week.

Also, make sure you are doing high reps at a weight that you could do more of when you finish.  I try to do around 10 reps at a weight that I could perhaps do 15 times.  That is what the "experts" say.

I do weight training on Monday and Wednesday nights after spinning class.  I've reserved Sunday for my long runs.  Tuesday and Thursday are running days.  Saturday is either a race or a ride day.  I've found that the summer takes more out of my legs, than the amount of exercise.  I think the high temperatures and humidity seem to drain the power in my legs, and I don't actually feel comfortable until I get about three miles into a run.
I wouldn't think that the Thursday training would make that much of  a difference to you unless you are really pushing the weights.  I think if you want to run, you need to focus more on repitition of weights and not the amount.  Just my two cents.
Rob

I read in Runners World to work on the core and upper body, that it was not really necessary to do legs because the running would take care of them and you risk injury by over doing it.

pan head

Me, me, me!  I totally know what you are talking about!  It's really hard for me to run after I've lifted on my legs a couple days before.  I try to do my leg routines earlier in the week so that I have a better break before my longer run on the weekend.  I'm the type of person who feels the pain from lifting about 2 days after.  So I have to time things right so that I don't suffer on my long runs.  Try stretching your legs after you lift too ... sometimes that helps me.  --Deanna :)

A few things in regards to resistance training and long distance running.

- No doubt, 100%, if you are a long distance runnner, you SHOULD resistance train. This includes upper body, mid section and legs! Running alone will not provide your legs with the conditioning they need.
- Resistance training will increase lactate threshhold (LT). The only way to increase LT is to train at or above LT. Resistance training is certainly above LT.
- Resistance training improves running economy moreso than running alone.

More specific to your question and  what your trainer has you doing.

If your long run is on Saturday, and you are training your legs fairly intensly on Thursday, this is certainly not optimal. While glycogen can be prelenished within a 24 hour period, there are other factors to consider. There is a great deal of neural fatigue associated with weight training and you need ample recovery time. If you have resistance trained fairly heavily there is also some tissue damage that must be repaired. So yeah, heavy leg training is probably not the best thing to do on Thursday if your long run is on Saturday. I would suggest moving your lower body training to earlier days of the week. 

As far as the sets and reps, some of this has to do with where you are at in your training program. So....
- Are you using a periodized training program? If you are not, why not? If you are, what phase or mesocycle are you currently in?
- What and when is the competition you are trying to peak for?

Anyway, hope this helps a little bit.

 Jeremy,

Thanks for you advice.  Question - what do you mean by periodized training program and mesocycle?  Basically I am doing what my trainer says to do.

I'm training for the NYC Marathon which is 11/2.

Hello Mary,
Glad to see your Saturday run went well.

Periodization is a method of planning training programs. A periodized program generally consists of the following:

1. Macrocycle - most frequently this is a 12 month cycle or 1 year training plan.

2. Mesocycle - Mesocycles generall last somewhere between 4-6 weeks although they can be longer or shorter. During a mesocycle there is a specific goal in mind. For instance, a mesocycle may focus on developinggeneral fitness, maximal strength, musclar endurance, power, or simply maintaining sport specific fitness.

3. Microcycle - A microcycle may consist of the week-to-week variation seen in a mesocycle.

4. Day-to-Day - There is generally a significant level of day-to-day variation as well.

Now, while you are an endurance athlete, it is not optimal to FOCUS entirely on developing endurance during the entire training year. We use different mesocycles to focus on specific training goals. It is extremely difficult to develop a great deal of strength while also developing aerobic endurance. This does not mean that during different phases of the year that you completely ignore endurance, but your focus may include things such as strength, power or increasing Lactate Threshold. One of the reasons for this is the "Potentiating" effect one mesocycle has on the next as long as the program is designed properly. For instance, a strength phase will potentiate a power phase since a significant level of strength is required to produce high power outputs.

So, while some of this may vary depending on when you are going to compete and how much time you have to prepare, a macrocycle may consists of the following mesocycles:

General Conditioning: Weight training will build a decent level of strength and prepare connective tissues. This will prepare you for the strength phase. 

Strength: Weight training will focus on developing strength where each set will consist  of 4-6 repetitions (heavy weight). This will prepare you for the power phase.

Power - Weight training will focus on developing power or explosive movements. Sets would consist of 3-6 repetitions where the speed of movement is high.

Taper - Exercise volume will decrease but intensity will remain high.

Competition - For you, a maintenance phase is not necessary if you are only competing in one event. You will simply try to peak for a single event and then everything will start over again. This would be different if you were trying to compete in several events. Your competition phase would also be a maintenance phase.

Keep in mind this is only a brief overview and many more specifics would go into designing a training program. The type and volume of running would also vary during a mesocycle and from one mesocycle to the next.