Plant Based Protein?

Hi Ya'll.

I'm 12+ years out from DS.

Recently my brother, who is a Cardiologist, has been suggesting my husband go on a plant based diet- basically vegan (no meat, dairy or eggs). My husband has had two kidney transplants and has high cholesterol and afib.

Of course I am the one cooking... So I started doing tons of research and found many believe Americans eat too much 'complete' protein and the body can and does take incomplete protein to make protein needed. Long story short broccoli has more protein pound for pound than beef.

I just wondered if anyone else has dabbled in plant proteins vs. animals?

I am making 4-6 dinners a week without meat or dairy. I use lentils, tofu, beans and corn / cauliflower / mushrooms in place of meat. I add salads and veggies and even white potatoes.

I am shocked that my stomach seems fine?!! I have tons of energy and no gas like I would if I ate meat plus veggies.

This confuses me.

For example last night I had lentils w / tomatoes cooked in taco seasonings , refried beans (veggie ones in a can) , avocado slices and 'rice' made of cauliflower / sweet potato with cilantro, lime and garlic. No gas... Went out with friends afterwards.

I very much expected with this plant based cooking I'd have to either sneak myself meat or never leave the house again and it's not happening.

Breakfast was peppers , onions , tofu scrambled with salsa.

I'd love to hear from others on this...

Thanks!

Cindy

Yuck! Lentils... Tofu...

Well, you are a smart person and I know if anyone can manage this, you can. And the truth of the matter is that as long as you get all the right amino acids, your body will assemble and utilize them properly. I would never advocate for any DSer to do this but you have a darn good reason. May be you could have separate meat based snacks to add more protein to your diet while your H has other things. That would make it easier for you to get protein.

What I would probably do in this situation is exactly what you are doing. I think it would be a great idea to run just protein levels in 6 months and see if you are succeeding or if you need to tweak your diet. I say 6 months because sooner probably won't give you the real picture. In the meantime, watch yourself carefully and if you start seeing any symptoms or feel bad, protein is the first thing you should check.

I am betting you don't do shakes but if necessary, you could supplement with them. Just another alternative yuck for you! You are far enough out that you know the difference between OK and not OK!

Lol. I love lentils. Tofu takes some getting used to and I only use to boost protein if I feel we've been low.

I've been easing into the plant based meals for a few months but just now considering doing more.

I do have protein powder at home (pea based- ha!) but I haven't regularly used shakes in 8 years.

I haven't had my labs drawn this year so I'll give it a few more months eating heavily plant based and see where it leads.

I'm also pretty cognizant to get foods from all amino acid groups.

All I know is my digestion occurs better with either no carbs (including veggies) or no meat/dairy and tons of veggies.

I always joked if an average person needed to eat 5-10 fruits and veggies I needed 10-20 because of malabsorption. (I was told to avoid macular degeneration my grandma had vitamins weren't enough I had to eat fruits and veggies)

Thanks for your opinion, Patty. Nice to see people still hanging around.

I eat tons of lentils. They are awesome, and keep things moving.... If ya know what I mean. When I go low carb, things tend to slow down a lot and I have more gas. I eat a few bowls of lentils a week to make sure I'm regular. FYI if you don't have an instant pot get one! It's good for making lentils and dry beans quickly!

I have been eyeing the Instapot!

I made these 'crepes' (mine came out more like pancakes).

My husband ate them with cherries I sautéed with a bit of sugar and I ate mine with peanut butter.

I love them!

http://www.sondibruner.com/2013/02/18/red-lentil-crepes/

them most weight I ever gained pre was,was while eating a " plant based diet". I would carefully watch the scale and make sure you are not gaining.

a plant based diet is high in carbohydrates and even ds'ers absorb 100% of the carbs we eat.

True about carbs. I will be careful.

But I am trying for whole foods and not processed vegan food.

But good reminder.

So I found there's a RNY surgeon who promotes plant based nutrition after WLS.

This video is less than 10 minutes but he talks about protein in our diets. (He says we eat too much)

https://youtu.be/XQCt3IhaUtU

Anyway... Food for thought. (Pun intended)

As far as I can tell a variety of plant based proteins are key for a normal person to switch to a plant based diet. This is due to the essential amino acids issue but certainly achievable. At 4 years I think I would be able to if I wanted to especially as you have seen some of the early reactions to vegetables may go away.

For DS'rs it's a little more problematic but not impossible especially as you are so far out. The key issues for DS'rs are again the amino acids which is more of an issue early on post op when you may not be able to get in the variety you need. The second is a thing called bio availability which is an imprecise way to measure how much of a type of protein is actually available to you. Again, probably more of an issue early on where your intake is limited by the VSG restriction.

Here's an article from Dr. Keseshians blog that talks about bio availability and other DS protein issues.

https://www.dssurgery.com/protein/

This is from an NIH article about different sources of protein that you can see in full here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3905294/

The one quote that jumped out at me was this:

Proteins from vegetable sources are incomplete in that they are generally lacking one or two essential amino acids. Thus, someone who desires to get their protein from vegetable sources (i.e. vegetarian) will need to consume a variety of vegetables, fruits, grains, and legumes to ensure consumption of all essential amino acids. As such, individuals are able to achieve necessary protein requirements without consuming beef, poultry, or dairy. Protein digestibility ratings usually involve measuring how the body can efficiently utilize dietary sources of protein. Typically, vegetable protein sources do not score as high in ratings of biological value, net protein utilization, PDCAAS, and protein efficiency ratio as animal proteins.

Pete

Thank you, Pete!

I find this in Dr. K's info interesting :

Post WLS the body will compensate and increase protein absorption in the other areas of the small bowel. This may also explain why some weight is regained several years after WLS. 2

I also found this from Dr. Garth Davis:

*begin quote *

Spent last night researching where the practice of weight loss surgery came up with the recommendation of 80-100gm of protein a day. There is actually no basis in any evidence. In fact there is evidence that less protein has no negative effect. The RDA did in depth studies looking at nitrogen utilization to come up with a recommendation for protein. They then noted that the number they calculated was for the average person so they bumped up that number to cover 98% of the population. That number is 47 gm for women and 56 gm for men. This can be further bumped up if you are heavily active, but not by much. Duodenal switch is malabsorptive so I would bump this up by 30% but gastric bypass and sleeve patients do not malabsorp protein. There is no reason they shouldn't follow RDA guidelines. The problem with excess protein is that weight loss surgery patients practice an "eat the protein first" dogma that leaves them stuffed on extra protein and thereby missing out on the absolutely essential vitamins and minerals found in plants. Proteins from animal sources, which is what weight loss surgery patients gravitate to, are very calorie dense, so this practice ends up with people eating calorie dense foods first. Not to mention the fact that animal proteins cause metabolic acidosis and inflammation.

I have seen so many patients struggling with weight gain after surgery who come to me and say they were told to eat 100 gm protein a day. They do not look healthy. In our national meetings surgeons would undoubtedly say they need a new surgery. Despite emphasizing surgery as a tool, failure with maintaining weight loss is always blamed on the surgery. We never stop and consider that maybe we are not telling people how to use the tool correctly.

I never go straight for revision in patients struggling with weight loss. I emphasize a strong plant based (though not exclusive) diet and 10,000 steps a day. This works INCREDIBLY well. Weight loss surgeries are very effective but you just have to know how to use them appropriately!

End quote from Dr. Davis

I do eat a variety of food- but I will have to research how to make sure I can get all the needed AA