Trouble? bones being leeched of calcium?

Hello lovely peoples! ;p

 I got my 15 month lab results back except vit K… still waiting for the results. All the lab values I have been working on are heading in the right direction and I am very happy! What worries me is the signs I am seeing pop up from certain labs. I think my body is starting to leech calcium from my bones, it is just small signs but I want to put a kibosh on it if it is happening. I am very very green in managing this still and would love some insight. The reason I think this is as follows:

 

ALK Phosphatase is high

144     50-136 U/L

 

Calcium ionized is high

1.31     1.11-1.3 mmol/L

 

Calcium ionized @pH 7.4 is high

1.33     1.11-1.3 mmol/L

 

PTH jumped up 6pts

39     15-65 pg/mL

 

WBC dropped down to low

4     4.39-11 K/mm3

 

 

Each of these I have looked up and all of them say that one of the main reasons the levels are elevated/low is because of calcium being leeched from bones. Let me know what you think, I would like to turn these numbers around. None of these labs are ‘severe’ but I would rather catch this early. I am still waiting on my K results which have also been running low but I upped them this last time and would like to see the results.

 

Thank you all for the help!

 

First off, what is your current vitamin schedule including amounts/dosages?

 

Morning:

 

5:15am
1 Levothyroxine -.112mg (+half pill on Sunday only)
1 B9 (folic Acid) -1,200mcg sublingual each (MT & TF)
1 B12-5,000mcg sublingual each (MT & TF)
7am
1 Probiotic

 

 

Morning:

8am

2 A-25,000IU each

1 E-400IU each

1 K1-1,000mcg each

1 Zinc-50 mg each

9am

1 Multi Vitamin/Mineral

2 Calcium-300mg each

1 B7 (biotin)-5,000IU each

1 D3-50,000IU each

 

 

 

Noon:

11am

2 A-25,000IU each

1 E-400IU each

1 K1-1,000mcg each

1 Zinc-50 mg each

12pm

1 Multi Vitamin/Mineral

2 Calcium-300mg each

1 B Complex w/out B6

4 D3-5,000IU each

 

 

Evening:

2pm

2 A-25,000IU each

1 E-400IU each

1 K1-1,000mcg each

1 Copper-2mg each

3pm

3 Calcium-167 each

2 Magnesium Citrate-150mg each

1 C-1000mg each

 

 

 

Bedtime:

5pm

2 A-25,000IU each

1E-400IU each

1 K2-50mcg each

1 B1 (thiamin)-100mg sublingual each

7pm

1 Probiotic

10pm

3 Calcium-167 each

2 Magnesium Citrate-150mg each

 

You're doing everything right. I think I would change to the 150mcg vitamin K2 and take 4 capsules a day.  If you can get them to start testing osteocalcin that will give you an indication of how fast you're turning over bone. Lower is better on labs for osteocalcin.  Also, get a baseline dexa scan if you can. 

--gina

Thanks for replying Gina :)

I have heard that some people have calcium issues before I got the DS and I just want to be very proactive with this since I am so young and I really don't want this to affect me.

I actually just incorporated K2 into my regimen this last 3 months before my 15 month labs. I realized it was not in Vitalady's regimen and kinda over looked it. I seen a lot of people mentioning it and finally realized I didn't take any! So right now I am taking 3000 mcg of K1 a day and only 50 K2 a day. Thank you for suggesting a dosage for me, I was totally lost on how much I should aim for. Do you think my K1 should stay where it is at or up the dose? Also is K2 sensitive to any other vits? I was thinking of taking it with my calcium, as long as it doesn't over power it. What do you think?

You also totally read my mind with the DEXA scan! lol I figure this is a good time to get on my PCP for a DEXA. I didn't know about the test for osteocalcin, thank you for mentioning that. I will also ask PCP to get me tested on that right away as well. With these two tests I should know if I am improving or failing in my efforts.

Thank you! My awesome angel! Wish me luck!

The only things I can think of to keep away from K1 is vitamin A. I think you can add to K2 to any of your batches. I take 2 capsules in the AM and 2 in the PM. I've never had to bump my K1 up to 3,000 mcg a day. I went a short time taking 2 K1 capsules a day but it brought me right up to top of the range and I was able to cut back to 1 capsule a day.  I guess the bottom line is stay with what you're doing unless you want to try Chris' suggestions and switch some to midnight and away from all foods, which is supported by my dietitian as a great method to bring up stubborn fat soluble vitamins. Once they're up, they usually stick pretty well.

Good luck!

--g

 

 

 

I am not closed completely to taking my A at night but if I don't have to I will try that road first lol You have no idea how deep of a sleeper I am. My husband HATES IT! lol I think I will drop my K-1 back to Vitalady's dose and then just up my K2 as suggest and stick it with my calcium (far away from A). I think I have a new regimen kinda figured in my head now. Just need to get a hold of my doc for those tests :) I just need to get this all taken care of before my husband and I try to get pregnant. I plan to try this fall, if my PCOS permits. I have been happy with all my other labs, they are looking great! Just that stupid A and the fact I slacked on my K2 and didn't realize it. My life is so stinking busy right now I have to remind myself to be on time and take care of myself :)

The K2, boron, strontium, etc are not in the starter plan. While I think we WILL need them, i'm sicking with the basics for now. Picture yourself as a newbie wondering why you're taking K1, and then what the heck is K2 and why would I want that?

2 reasons:
people are totally overwhelmed with the basics. They have to get down in the trenches with their own numbers, as you've done. Once they have an interest in their own numbers and OWN them, then we proceed.

the other is less obvious but very real to me. if I add everything we will need by the 3rd year, it looks like I'm just trying to "sell more pills".

When people have grabbed hold and recognize that they have some control over future health, then i offer all i have and/or know.

I personally take 2 per day and it slapped my osteocalcin right into submission. It is one element where "less is more", so 2, 4 of them, fine. We only take the MK-7 form. We count it in mcg, not mg.

some people have used the "more is better"" thinking and have taken many MG (not mcg), which is the MK-4 form, didn't get any improvement, and had some mild side effects. MK-4 is not a substance I'd use myself.

HEY! I am so glad to see you posting! Welcome back! Thank you so much for the suggestions :) I feel confident in upping my K2 and seeing if I can see a turnaround in my next 3 months labs. My biggest concern is to be perfect before I try to get pregnant. I want my levels in maintenance mode before I try to juggle a pregnant body. My body first! I have learned after having the DS that you CANNOT put yourself last. I didn't even realize I did that a lot before surgery.

I agree people need to be VERY active in watching their labs and managing them. No one else is going to do it, so you need to be on that! I so agree on your reasons :) Having everything would overwhelm the newbie. When I started the amount that was in your starter set seemed overwhelming and almost impossible to get in. Then time passed and I take several pills in one gulp and my pills have increased. Now it is no big deal at all, it is now a part of my life. I am a master pill swallower now!

I am so blessed to have you all for support!

I'm re-reading some of these on a better health day.



PLEASE! Before you talk babies, build your nest. Prime yourself with folic. LOTS of folic. The other B's, iron, calcium--they'll all take a nosedive.



Folic comes in mcg. 400, 800, 1200. Rx is 1000. But I take 5000, two of them. So 10,000. I'm using all the mcg measure to be consistent. I was asleep at the switch on the folic thing. Mine fell below low and I wasn't even watching. Had not listed it in my brain as malabsorbed. Well, of course it is! Duh. My brain is not always in the "on" position, but it was much more in 2004 (10yrs after my WLS) when my PCP caught the invisible folic. Again, duh, he doesn't interest himself with vitamin levels, so I think he was surprised to see one tank, with me. I used the highest dose on the planet to come out of it. It (fall into invisible levels) may have contributed to the blood disorder, which is genetic, but hadn't showed up at that time. i used 100,000 mcg. 100mg. Or the equal to 100 of the rx version. I needed to snap it up fast enough to give me whiplash. But, with my genetics, it was too late.



B12 + folic = cells, in a kindergarten formula. I've not made normal cells since.Right now, it's called hemolytic anemia, but periodic bone marrow biopsies show changes. It is what took my dad. He was living with me, so like me, he had stellar iron and ferritin, but no cells. He didn't have ITP. None of this concerns you, since you are not related to me by blood.



But the effect of saggy folic is the same. You want a robust nest to build your family. You want the best labs you can get before you start building a little person. You want a complete person, so give her a safe nest. Wish I knew this stuff when I was pregnant, but the babies in my avatar are now 41 and 43. Besides, it might not have mattered since my body's default to any assault is nausea/vomiting. Always was.



And yes, we did have color TV back then. LOL



Although you didn't ask and may not want my opinion, your doctor will want you to take prenatals. In my very non-medical opinion, you are taking them FOR the doctor. They are configured all wrong for us. High in folic (high being relative, about 800), very low in D and A. The calcium and iron are low, but they are at war, so it's a non-issue. They often cause constipation, which would be the fallout from the iron and calcium wars.



So, I'd never tell you not to do what your medicals tell you, I only would tell you what I'd tell my loved ones. The prenatals are for the doc, your regular vites are for you and the baby.



Send your vit A into the stratosphere NOW, because you'll probably have to cut that back to only 10,000 or so.


edited to fix a coupla nonsense words.