My Mom Won't Support Me and Is Being Very Negative!
I'm rarely cowed by anyone :P . Yes, I would say know thyself is an important part of this process. If you don't know how to research, how to look up medical licenses, how to look your surgeon in the eye and ask the tough questions, how to google them and read what their patients have had to say, then you probably ought to just choose a vetted surgeon and call it a day. :) Because doing your own research... is hard work and it kind of sucks.
"Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
"What your heart thinks is great, is great. The soul's emphasis is always right." Ralph Waldo Emerson
"What your heart thinks is great, is great. The soul's emphasis is always right." Ralph Waldo Emerson
Ms. Cal Culator
on 9/9/11 4:01 am - Tuvalu
on 9/9/11 4:01 am - Tuvalu
On September 9, 2011 at 10:09 AM Pacific Time, bookfaerie wrote:
Having a difference of opinion with Sue, doesn't make her any less intelligent. It means that getting the DS isn't for the faint of heart. You have to have a brain and use it. And you have to ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY for your decisions. I find the use of Stephanie's death to be rhetorical rather than logical. You don't know why she died, but anyone who looks at the Bariatric Surgery Morbidity Index will find that the SMO are at a HIGH RISK of death for any surgical procedure.
AGAIN, I will say I know nothing at all about this "unvetted" surgeon. Nor do I give two ****s about the vetted surgeons (and we both know that at least one perhaps more have been taken OFF that list... what about those that blindly followed and had lack of appropriate follow up or consistent complications because they didn't bother to research their surgeon because he was "vetted"??)
Fuckitall people. Use your head. Research your surgeon. Know your risk factors. Grow up and put your big girl (or big boy) panties on. Then make the best decision you can. And live with it.
Oh, and while I agree with warning people when you feel strongly about something, the bullying crap is just BS. (Not saying you specifically, just in general.) It is one thing to say that YOU wouldn't go to an unvetted surgeon. It is one thing to say that you would be concerned if you were someone's mother. It is a whole other shebang to use someone's death and add fear mongering to the mix to justify your position. Find me a surgeon who hasn't lost someone on the table after years and years of doing surgery...and his name is probably Jesus the Nazarene.
" It is a whole other shebang to use someone's death and add fear mongering to the mix to justify your position."
The whole POINT is that someone might die...the next-to-the-last person we warned, did die. To NOT mention that when the topic of unvetted surgeons comes up would be pretty stupid.
I have a great deal of respect for you Sue, but I disagree. Saying that would be like ME arguing "Look at all the people you warned against going to an unvetted surgeon who are doing fine and happy with their DS!" as a justification for not going to a vetted DS surgeon (and there are FAR more patients who have had positive outcomes).
Without specific instances of malpractice to point to, the use of such instances doesn't validate anyone's position either way.
Without specific instances of malpractice to point to, the use of such instances doesn't validate anyone's position either way.
"Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
"What your heart thinks is great, is great. The soul's emphasis is always right." Ralph Waldo Emerson
"What your heart thinks is great, is great. The soul's emphasis is always right." Ralph Waldo Emerson
Ms. Cal Culator
on 9/9/11 4:46 am - Tuvalu
on 9/9/11 4:46 am - Tuvalu
On September 9, 2011 at 11:21 AM Pacific Time, bookfaerie wrote:
I have a great deal of respect for you Sue, but I disagree. Saying that would be like ME arguing "Look at all the people you warned against going to an unvetted surgeon who are doing fine and happy with their DS!" as a justification for not going to a vetted DS surgeon (and there are FAR more patients who have had positive outcomes). Without specific instances of malpractice to point to, the use of such instances doesn't validate anyone's position either way.
But our choices ARE limited. We can "carry on" about unvetted surgeons in advance as we are doing now or, as we unfortunately able to do at this point, announce that "Dr. X in Such-and-Such location has a 100% mortality rate with the DS."
If choosing the former make me a bully, I'll proudly accept the title.
When deaths happen because of the normal risks and complications that come with surgery, that is one thing. But, when they happen because a surgeon is not well versed in a procedure, or has other issues, then that is just a sad, sad, unnessessary loss... It's your life, you only get one.
I know people who won't take their car to an unknown mechanic! We have to use common sense, and make the best choices possible when it's within our reach to do so!
I know people who won't take their car to an unknown mechanic! We have to use common sense, and make the best choices possible when it's within our reach to do so!
HW/ 302 SW/287 CW/140 GW/135
Ms. Cal Culator
on 9/9/11 3:10 am - Tuvalu
on 9/9/11 3:10 am - Tuvalu
On September 9, 2011 at 9:44 AM Pacific Time, fradcliff wrote:
Hi Deanna,My Mom was not very supportive at all either she had the same concerns every mother does "Mortality Rate" but I was on the equivalent of 700 units of insulin a day and my blood sugar was still in the lower 200's and greater. This meant that my mortality was coming anyhow!! I knew I needed to do something drastic. My choice was DS after about two years of research and when people would question me I was able to answer pretty much any question or concern they had and I would even reply " You study this for two years and then you can give me your opinion" . I am now 8 months post op and my mom is my biggest supporter and brags to everyone how well I'm doing now. I pray that you will have the same success with both your surgery and your mother.
As far as Doctors are concerned I am curious to what a "Vetted Surgeon" is? I see your surgeon has 11 years in Bariatric Surgery or (BS) and has performed over 800 surgery's, I do see that he has ZERO listed for DS but every "Vetted Surgeon" listed here has at one time did his first one on somebody. It is your choice if you want to be his first. My Surgeon was Dr. Peter Lalor (not very well liked on this board) and at the time I chose him he had only done 2 DS surgery's with over a total of 600 surgery's and 8 yrs of BS. I was his 4th when I went on the table I was not concerned with the number of DS's he had done. His professionalism and knowledge of the procedure is what I was concerned about. I have had no complications and have had great success over the last 8 months (Totally off all diabetic meds and no sleep apnea).I hope you have consulted with your surgeon and you feel very confident in your choice and his knowledge of this procedure and that is the reason you are moving forward with your decision of this Dr.
I've looked at some of the other surgeons listed here on OH .....
Dr. Peters - No numbers listed (I know he has done DS there are two people on this thread alone with him)
Dr. Ungson - Over x700 total and x406 DS
Dr. Stewart - Over x600 RNY and x7 DS
Dr. Simper - Over x1500 total no number for DS
Dr. Pomp - Over x2300 with x230 DS
Dr. Antanavicious - Over x500 Total with x115 DS (4 years of BS)
Ms. Cal Culator loves to give her opinion and is very helpful don't get me wrong I love the lady and I think she is very wise... But who was her surgeon and back when she had her surgery how much experience did that surgeon have ??
So what is the criteria that makes a surgeon Vetted? How many years they have in BS, how many total surgery's they have performed or how many DS surgery's they have done? I'm not telling you to go forward or not go forward with this surgeon. I hope you have done your research on him and you are satisfied with the results. I just hear several people stating that you should choose a Vetted Surgeon" and I am just curious to what that is.
I wish you the best with your surgery and a speedy recovery , also best of luck with you mother.
Floyd,
" Ms. Cal Culator loves to give her opinion and is very helpful don't get me wrong I love the lady and I think she is very wise... But who was her surgeon and back when she had her surgery how much experience did that surgeon have ??"
I went to Rumbaut for the band. At that time he had done a few thousand, the most experienced band surgeon I could find in the western US at that time...late 2001 is when I started looking...had done 30. When it had to come out, I was delighted that I had gone to Rumbaut, and so was Dr. Keshishian, *****vised me to the DS. I think he had done around 1000 DS procedures at the time (late 2005) and because the band had been implanted by a surgeon who knew what he was doing, the revision surgery took less than 2 hours instead of the planned 3.5.
You are right that SOMEONE has to be the first patient. But it's a STEEP learning curve and those first patients...no matter how experienced the surgeon is at other procdures...are still at higher risk than those going to surgeons who know what could happen and how to deal with it.
Ms. Cal had Dr. Keshishian and he was already a reknowned DS *and* revision surgeon at the time of her surgery.
I was number 200+ for Dr. Peters and the DS.
While the DS Facts list of surgeons is not the sum total of acceptable DS surgeons, nor is the list infallible (Dr. Husted was on there until recently, for example), it's still the best thing going. I am one of the several people who has input regarding who goes on that list, but I do NOT make that decision. The site is privately owned and the owner makes that call.
The types of things we look at when giving input include, but are not limited to:
--training
--overall experience
--available information on complications and outcomes
--the apparent patient satisfaction/success rates as reported by participants on this and other sites
Additional "points" get awarded for being a researcher/publisher in the field, for appearing to have a clue about patient education and followup care, and probably other things I can't think of right now.
Yes, someone "has to" be the first DS for a surgeon. You took a presumably informed and calculated risk by being Dr. Lalor's #2. I seem to recall you making a post or two about the subject (though people's details tend to run together for me, so I might be conflating your story with others) that sounded like you were pretty well informed about what you were doing.
I remain quite unconvinced of this with the OP. I want a potential DSer to be able to explain him/herself, the research and decision making process in detail, and I look for certain cues and key words that tell me they "get it." I have yet to see any of that with the OP, so I am worried.
I was number 200+ for Dr. Peters and the DS.
While the DS Facts list of surgeons is not the sum total of acceptable DS surgeons, nor is the list infallible (Dr. Husted was on there until recently, for example), it's still the best thing going. I am one of the several people who has input regarding who goes on that list, but I do NOT make that decision. The site is privately owned and the owner makes that call.
The types of things we look at when giving input include, but are not limited to:
--training
--overall experience
--available information on complications and outcomes
--the apparent patient satisfaction/success rates as reported by participants on this and other sites
Additional "points" get awarded for being a researcher/publisher in the field, for appearing to have a clue about patient education and followup care, and probably other things I can't think of right now.
Yes, someone "has to" be the first DS for a surgeon. You took a presumably informed and calculated risk by being Dr. Lalor's #2. I seem to recall you making a post or two about the subject (though people's details tend to run together for me, so I might be conflating your story with others) that sounded like you were pretty well informed about what you were doing.
I remain quite unconvinced of this with the OP. I want a potential DSer to be able to explain him/herself, the research and decision making process in detail, and I look for certain cues and key words that tell me they "get it." I have yet to see any of that with the OP, so I am worried.
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