leg and foot cramps ? ideas please ! ?
Hey all,
Did you miss me ? I have been traveling.... first a conference for a week, then two weeks at the parent's to help with my Dad and DH Mom.. then we had 4 days for R & R before arriving home earlier tonight. I have a ton of catching up to do....
BUT ... oh have I had cramps ! It is so odd... I knew before the trip I was fighting low levels of magnesium. I upped it and the newest lab draw says magnesium is 2.3 in a range of 1.4-2.5 which is up from 1.6 from the last lab draw. My potassium is 4.3 in a range of 3.4-5.3... so what the heck ?
What else can cause leg and foot cramps ? I am sort of stumped.. and the cramps are worse with higher lab levels... so this just does not make sense... I need to google and call the PCP, but of course she is off tomorrow. When Dr Maguire ordered the labs while I was up there, he said if I was still having cramps, to wait on lab results and go to my PCP for full evaluation.
These cramps started about 3 months ago and they sure have not gotten any better. I actually feel like they are getting progressively worse. So I guess that is why I am thinking there must be another level I should be considering looking at..... They start in the calf and go down to the foot most of the time. Sometimes it is like the foot wants to curl up and cramp and stuck in a curved position. So weird.... anyone have that happen ?
I am certainly open to any ideas while I wait to see when I can get into the PCP... although I am not sure if she will have a good idea or not. I know I should have more confidence in her, but I don't.
On an upnote... we got to have lunch with Becky on the way home today !
Great Mexican place we had never been to before. Always fun to catch up with another DS'er !
While gone had dinner with a bunch of Ohio DS'ers as well.. That was a blast as we got to go to Porky Capone's in Ohio... YUMMY if you are ever close to there !
I have lots of catching up to do here.
If anyone has any ideas on these dang cramps I am open to ideas and suggestions.
Thanks much ! Guess I better get some sleep for now... returning to work in the a.m.
Did you miss me ? I have been traveling.... first a conference for a week, then two weeks at the parent's to help with my Dad and DH Mom.. then we had 4 days for R & R before arriving home earlier tonight. I have a ton of catching up to do....
BUT ... oh have I had cramps ! It is so odd... I knew before the trip I was fighting low levels of magnesium. I upped it and the newest lab draw says magnesium is 2.3 in a range of 1.4-2.5 which is up from 1.6 from the last lab draw. My potassium is 4.3 in a range of 3.4-5.3... so what the heck ?
What else can cause leg and foot cramps ? I am sort of stumped.. and the cramps are worse with higher lab levels... so this just does not make sense... I need to google and call the PCP, but of course she is off tomorrow. When Dr Maguire ordered the labs while I was up there, he said if I was still having cramps, to wait on lab results and go to my PCP for full evaluation.
These cramps started about 3 months ago and they sure have not gotten any better. I actually feel like they are getting progressively worse. So I guess that is why I am thinking there must be another level I should be considering looking at..... They start in the calf and go down to the foot most of the time. Sometimes it is like the foot wants to curl up and cramp and stuck in a curved position. So weird.... anyone have that happen ?
I am certainly open to any ideas while I wait to see when I can get into the PCP... although I am not sure if she will have a good idea or not. I know I should have more confidence in her, but I don't.
On an upnote... we got to have lunch with Becky on the way home today !
Great Mexican place we had never been to before. Always fun to catch up with another DS'er ! While gone had dinner with a bunch of Ohio DS'ers as well.. That was a blast as we got to go to Porky Capone's in Ohio... YUMMY if you are ever close to there !
I have lots of catching up to do here.
If anyone has any ideas on these dang cramps I am open to ideas and suggestions.
Thanks much ! Guess I better get some sleep for now... returning to work in the a.m.
Ginger<><
Revision #2 Dr John Rabkin June 21, 2013; First Revision DS - Dr Maguire 5-18-09; First DS 7-15-2003 Dr Clark Warden = Third time is the charm 
Can you describe your current magnesium dosing and form that you are taking?
Mag deficiency can be a tricky thing, since a lot of it is stored inside the cell and not actually floating around in the blood. So if we are seeing a deficiency all the way in the blood, it can mean you are really, really low.
That's not to say it isn't something else entirely.
I will say...I have felt exactly what you are feeling and it hurts like a you-know-what, so there is definitely a lot of sympathy here...yeouch.
Let's see--any struggles with calcium, vitamin D?
Low B-vites or Vitamin C could potentially cause these things...would be less likely than other things since you're further out from surgery.
Hmm...sodium? Would you be dehydrated at all? Is this every night?
Mag deficiency can be a tricky thing, since a lot of it is stored inside the cell and not actually floating around in the blood. So if we are seeing a deficiency all the way in the blood, it can mean you are really, really low.
That's not to say it isn't something else entirely.
I will say...I have felt exactly what you are feeling and it hurts like a you-know-what, so there is definitely a lot of sympathy here...yeouch.
Let's see--any struggles with calcium, vitamin D?
Low B-vites or Vitamin C could potentially cause these things...would be less likely than other things since you're further out from surgery.
Hmm...sodium? Would you be dehydrated at all? Is this every night?
5'9.5" | HW: 368 | SW: 353 | CW: 155 +/- 5 lbs | Angel to 
Hi Kayla,
Here is my current routine....
Crystal Magnesium by Kal... 2 tsp a day, one in a.m., on in p.m. which equal about 1200 mg
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=crystal+magnesium&r ls=com.microsoft:en-US&oe=utf8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=16 933116212799164133&sa=X&ei=O00gTsGYJ8nKgQe66YzkBQ&ved=0CDAQ8 wIwAg#
Biotin 1000 bid Boron 3 mg per day
My total calcium went from 9.3 to 9.8 BUT my PTH went from 56 to 92, which makes no sense at all ! Labs were drawn different places though.
Vit D hydroxy went from 46.5 to 27, which also does not seem to make sense.
Sodium the same at 141
B levels are all good. The BUN is slightly elevated at 34 in a range of 7-25 - I have been told this is the high protein diet in the past, not to worry.
My hydration is very good I think. I pee pale yellow all the time, it is never dark.
Phosphorus is high at 5.1, in a range of 2.5-4.5, which I have never seen high before. I will look that up... but it is not super high.
Copper is also high at 113 in a range of 38-98.
The cramps can be anytime...but mostly in the evening or between 3 a.m. and 5 a.m. from a dead sleep they wake me up. Does not seem to matter what I am doing. Yes they hurt like crazy !
I do not see other changes anywhere...but I will finish charting these in excel later today to be sure I am not overlooking something.
Thanks for any other input.
Ginger<><
Revision #2 Dr John Rabkin June 21, 2013; First Revision DS - Dr Maguire 5-18-09; First DS 7-15-2003 Dr Clark Warden = Third time is the charm
OK...looks like the crystal magnesium is pretty good though I'd never heard of it...it appears to be magensium citrate which is a good form. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't mag oxide as that is very very poorly absorbed. Almost all of oxide will stay in the intestines.
Well, I am totally stumped except for the calcium. You definitely have markers of the beginning of bone loss. PTH goes up, which is a hormone that tells bones to release calcium from the bones into the blood -- showing an increase in serum calcium. I think this is due to a decrease in Vitamin D...very unfortunate when you are already taking 100,000IU, I understand.
Keep in mind that most calcium is stored in the bone and you cannot tell directly from serum calcium what your calcium status is like. Calcium is critical for muscle contraction so the body has very high motivation to keep that serum calcium in a very strict range.
How old are you Ginger? Any hormonal issues? I understand the issue because I have developed amenorrhea since WLS which causes my body to produce very very little estrogen on it's own, and estrogen is very protective for our bones.
I can't say whether the calcium situation is the answer to your leg cramps, but it is important nonetheless. You should probably add more vitamin D, and maybe even consider a bit of outside time each day to try and synthesize some of your own (though, as we age, our ability to make vitamin D from the sun diminishes as well). It should not take too long...you can even just shoot for 15 minutes with maximum skin exposure. You don't need to sit outside long enough to tan to make some vitamin D.
There is also an intramuscular injection of vitamin D available...600,000IU if you able to find a physician to inject you. They aren't shown to raise levels stupendously, but it is better than nothing.
Vitamin K helps with bone mineralization and I sadly do not see that listed anywhere in your supplement list. A lot of patients develop vitamin K deficiency after surgery and I think that may be beneficial to you...I am curious about your levels. There is no tolerable upper limit, even for normal patients, so you can really pack it in without a ton of worry.
I am just now learning more about vitamin K, but my preliminary opinion is that we should totally be taking more than we are! :)
ETA: oh, and the high phosphorus is another sign of the bone issue. Definitely stay on top of this to get those numbers in the right direction :)
Well, I am totally stumped except for the calcium. You definitely have markers of the beginning of bone loss. PTH goes up, which is a hormone that tells bones to release calcium from the bones into the blood -- showing an increase in serum calcium. I think this is due to a decrease in Vitamin D...very unfortunate when you are already taking 100,000IU, I understand.
Keep in mind that most calcium is stored in the bone and you cannot tell directly from serum calcium what your calcium status is like. Calcium is critical for muscle contraction so the body has very high motivation to keep that serum calcium in a very strict range.
How old are you Ginger? Any hormonal issues? I understand the issue because I have developed amenorrhea since WLS which causes my body to produce very very little estrogen on it's own, and estrogen is very protective for our bones.
I can't say whether the calcium situation is the answer to your leg cramps, but it is important nonetheless. You should probably add more vitamin D, and maybe even consider a bit of outside time each day to try and synthesize some of your own (though, as we age, our ability to make vitamin D from the sun diminishes as well). It should not take too long...you can even just shoot for 15 minutes with maximum skin exposure. You don't need to sit outside long enough to tan to make some vitamin D.
There is also an intramuscular injection of vitamin D available...600,000IU if you able to find a physician to inject you. They aren't shown to raise levels stupendously, but it is better than nothing.
Vitamin K helps with bone mineralization and I sadly do not see that listed anywhere in your supplement list. A lot of patients develop vitamin K deficiency after surgery and I think that may be beneficial to you...I am curious about your levels. There is no tolerable upper limit, even for normal patients, so you can really pack it in without a ton of worry.
I am just now learning more about vitamin K, but my preliminary opinion is that we should totally be taking more than we are! :)
ETA: oh, and the high phosphorus is another sign of the bone issue. Definitely stay on top of this to get those numbers in the right direction :)
Kayla,
Sorry for the slow response, been a busy day.
I do already have osteo.. I have been on Forteo for over a year with an increase in bone mass of 25% actually. I am also on hormones, post hysterectomy back in 1995. But I have only been on hormones for about 6 months. BTW, I am 55.
I had also read quite a bit about Vit K, but since my labs last yr were decent, I did not start it. I guess it is time to add it to the routine. I think I should have t he levels checked first though, so I have a starting point. I will have to check my previous labs and see if they were ever drawn before I start. I do have an appt with the PCP in the next couple of weeks. Today was a big catch up day for me after returning from 3 weeks of travel. I did look and the phosphorus level has never been high in the past, so things are obviously changing in several ways and I just need to figure out how to fix it. I really appreciate all the input !
I do get outside most days. I live in the south and I know it does not take long to absorb some each and every day.
The Crystal Magnesium I found at a health food store. The guy I talked to at that time was quite helpful in helping me find something absorbable. It originally helped the mag levels quickly, but then it sort of leveled off. I am going to add another dose each day and see what happens.
Sorry for the slow response, been a busy day.
I do already have osteo.. I have been on Forteo for over a year with an increase in bone mass of 25% actually. I am also on hormones, post hysterectomy back in 1995. But I have only been on hormones for about 6 months. BTW, I am 55.
I had also read quite a bit about Vit K, but since my labs last yr were decent, I did not start it. I guess it is time to add it to the routine. I think I should have t he levels checked first though, so I have a starting point. I will have to check my previous labs and see if they were ever drawn before I start. I do have an appt with the PCP in the next couple of weeks. Today was a big catch up day for me after returning from 3 weeks of travel. I did look and the phosphorus level has never been high in the past, so things are obviously changing in several ways and I just need to figure out how to fix it. I really appreciate all the input !
I do get outside most days. I live in the south and I know it does not take long to absorb some each and every day.
The Crystal Magnesium I found at a health food store. The guy I talked to at that time was quite helpful in helping me find something absorbable. It originally helped the mag levels quickly, but then it sort of leveled off. I am going to add another dose each day and see what happens.
Ginger<><
Revision #2 Dr John Rabkin June 21, 2013; First Revision DS - Dr Maguire 5-18-09; First DS 7-15-2003 Dr Clark Warden = Third time is the charm
vit k1 addresses that level on your labs
vit k2 (mk7) is the one for bones, not measurable directly magnesium. we don't measure mag by blood levels. if they are low, your level is way, WAY low.
citrate (pills, not bowel prep) for spasms, cramps, twinges, twitches, adjust to taste because you can't OD. on hand, keep Hyland Leg Cramp pills and oinment, for use during cramping., neither one prevents.
vit k2 (mk7) is the one for bones, not measurable directly magnesium. we don't measure mag by blood levels. if they are low, your level is way, WAY low.
citrate (pills, not bowel prep) for spasms, cramps, twinges, twitches, adjust to taste because you can't OD. on hand, keep Hyland Leg Cramp pills and oinment, for use during cramping., neither one prevents.
Michelle
RNY, distal, 10/5/94
P.S. My year + long absence has NOTHING to do with my WLS, or my type of WLS. See my profile.
Thank you Michelle !
I will get busy with the K vits for sure. I keep the Hylands on hand... it really has not helped like in the past. I am eating mag citrate often to try to get these to stop.
I will get busy with the K vits for sure. I keep the Hylands on hand... it really has not helped like in the past. I am eating mag citrate often to try to get these to stop.
Ginger<><
Revision #2 Dr John Rabkin June 21, 2013; First Revision DS - Dr Maguire 5-18-09; First DS 7-15-2003 Dr Clark Warden = Third time is the charm
I had the understanding when it happens that it is due to low potassium and knew someone for years with the problem and he seemed to have a banana and it resolved, tho they weren't even someone with a DS. My last labs showed me down in potassium and my follow up doctor said to just drink some v-8 or tomato juice in a can everyday and that should fix it. Valid or not I started taking some pills I had from a time I was deficient pre-op last year. I was just starting to get slight stiffness in my legs but not yet feet. There are others on here who discuss this problem too so perhaps they will chime in also.
1985 Verticle Banded Gastroplasty to DS revision 2010 sw 280 gw 140 cw 188 hw 360
“If the person you are talking to doesn't appear to be listening, be patient. It may simply be that he has a small piece of fluff in his ear.?
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