Consult with Dr. Roslin

pepsi98
on 9/27/10 8:04 pm - Norwich, CT
I had a consult with Dr. Roslin in NY.  On the second visit I had brought the CD of UGI and CT scan.  He looked at the films and basically said. "Can I do it?"  "Yes!"  "Should I do it?"  "I'm not sure."  "If you were my mother I would try to talk you out of it!"

I would be a complicated revision...gastric stapling in 1982, band over that in 2008 and now looking for a DS.  Roslin is a very good friend of my band surgeon at Tufts and I know they talked although Roslin was very vague about what my surgeon said.  I suspect that Roslin was probably "talked out of it" by my band surgeon who had told me previously if the band didn't work for me then he had nothing else for me.  I got the feeling that Roslin felt that since it would be the 3rd WLS surgery, that I was looking for the a surgery to "do the work for me".  He actually said, "You have to really think about where your end point is.

Even though he is the closest to me, I now would be nervous pushing him into doing this especially since he said he has never done a revision as complicated as mine...taking out the band, unstapling and revising the stomach and then doing the DS.

So here I sit, pretty much destined to fight to keep my weight in the 290's with no real hope of getting it in a more acceptable range.  I am a metabolic nightmare and weight loss is just a dream.
 "The Joy of the Lord is your strength."  Nehemiah 8:10


START:  330         CURRENT:  274.5 lbs         GOAL:  190          TOTAL:  55.5 lbs

 



MajorMom
on 9/27/10 8:14 pm - VA
Maybe a second opinion with Dr Elariny in DC or Dr K or Dr Rabkin in CA? Don't give up.

--gina

5'1" -- HW 195/SW 187/GW 115 July 08/CW 121 Dec 2012
                                 ******GOAL*******

Starting BMI between 35 and 40ish? 
Join us on the
Lightweights Board!
DS on Aug 9, 2007 with Dr. Hazem Elariny

Renfairewench
on 9/27/10 8:48 pm, edited 9/27/10 8:51 pm
If you are willing to travel there are a few other revision surgeons out there. My brain is mush right now so I know some of our other vetted members here will speak up and give you some names. I know that Dr. Greenbaum in NJ is one, but right now he has a moratorium on revision patients right now because he has a back log of them who are waiting 6 - 7 months from insurance approval to surgery so he has stopped taking them for now.

I have a friend who gained almost all of her lost RNY weight back and had a revision to DS and lost 80 pounds in six months and then her weight loss just stopped cold. Now, personally I think she looks amazing and normal, but she feels like her DS failed her because she is not at a normal BMI (I think she is around 180). The doctor considers her a success because she has lost something like 60% of her excess weight. In speaking with her it seems like she has some very difficult genetic metabolic issues where she would practically have to eat NOTHING in order to get to a normal BMI.  I don't think that it is the way she is eating either (i.e., too many carbs).

I am curious, how much weight did you lose when you had your RNY?  How long was your intestinal bypass?  How much did you lose when you had the band put on? How has your diet been post WLS? How much have you gained?  Are you taking any responsibility for the weight gain? 

Your revision does sound complicated, but not impossible, and if you are feeling like he has never done a revision like you then seek another surgeon who has done more complicated revisions. Lots of things can happen post revision. I know, I've gone through a lot and I have a very vetted DS surgeon who has done many revisons.  Here is an updated short version of what has happened to me. I blame no one for the problems I had, except the picc line issue, but that's another story entirely.  It was and is just my body's inability to cope I suppose.

On August 10Th I underwent revision surgery from an RNY to a DS. There were some issues after wards. My heart rate was out of control and for some reason my normally low blood pressure was in outer space. I was heavily drugged on pain medication and placed in the critical care unit. I was given medication by a specialist which brought down my BP and heart rate to more normal levels.  Forty-eight hours later I was sent back to the operating room because I repeatedly  failed the upper GI test and because I was throwing up old blood, saliva, and the gastrografin contrast. Basically, the contrast nor anything else would go down into my stomach and would remain only in my esophagus. The second operation did not make me happy, but was necessary. There was an area in my stomach that had been necessarily over sewn because it was a weak spot. It got very swollen and the contrast from the upper GI was not going into my stomach, but rather backing up into my esophagus. I woke up again in recovery saying the same thing I did the first time. "Pain PAIN PAIN, HURT HURT HURT, PAIN PAIN PAIN!!!!" I was quickly given pain medication and sent back to CCU in a wonderful pain free drug haze.  I spent 9 days there when I was moved to a regular room on a Wednesday. I was supposed to be discharged 2 days later on that Friday, but my incision got red and hot and decided to leak sero-sanquenous fluid and had to be opened in two places. This despite having two JP drains. Not a pretty sight at all I tell ya. It was packed daily and dressed. Due to the draining of my incision I was not allowed to leave the hospital until the following Wednesday. Came home with a PICC line, a J-tube and home health care nurses to assist with enteral feedings and thrice daily IV antibiotics. I was not allowed to eat anything, and only allowed small amounts of water and or ice.  By this point I had been NPO for the 17 days I was in the hospital and would continue to be NPO for a total of 55 days. The days that followed my return home,  the arm I had the Picc line in started to hurt like hell and by Sunday night (home only 4 days)  my temperature went up to 102.6. We knew that something bad was going on. I called Dr. Greenbaums office and the answering service connected me directly with him. He told me to pack a bag and get back to the hospital. Turned out I had a subclavian clot (a DVT) caused by the PICC line. The PICC Line was superficially infected and was removed, but because I needed IV antibiotics I had to have another one put in my left arm. I was put on Warfarin and Lovonox while in the hospital. Spent another week in the hospital and was released. Came home on Warfarin and again started to settle in. Got a visit from the visiting nurse a few days later and she packed my wound and dressed it. I went to bed later that evening and Todd my husband came up a few hours later to hook up my enteral feeding (I had a J-tube) to discover that my night shirt was soaked. He took off the dressing and discovered white viscous ick (gastric stuff) everywhere. We called Dr. Greenbaum the next morning and back to the hospital I went with a packed bag. Turns out my stomach organ got a leak in the area that had been previously swollen. It caused a fistula which was draining out of the open incision. I spent another week in the hospital again. This time I came home with a Wound Vac pump. Total time in the hospital over Aug. and September was about 27 days.

For 60 days I wore the wound vac pump while it sucked out ick from my stomach and helped close my incision. In mid October the J-tube was  removed and I was put on full liquids. I'm no longer tied to the Vac pump . The PICC line was removed at the beginning of October. I had been moved from nothing bu****er to clear liquids to full liquids to actually eating, but eating has been tough most days and still continues to be. I threw up almost every time I ate anything. I've been moved back and forth from full liquids to soft foods. Learning to eat again is an adventure and sometimes a nightmare. I have a lot of food intolerance. Most meats are impossible for me to eat. Most of my protein came from cottage cheese, Greek yogurt, and protein drinks. 

For the last 13 months I have dealt with the gastric leak and fistula. In April I was put on TPN and made to go NPO. This was only supposed to be for a couple of weeks. It's turned into nearly 6 months. In June I got sepsis from the tunneled PICC which was in my jugular vein and being used to infuse the TPN. That PICC was removed and a Groshong cath was inserted into my subcavian vein just above my left breast and has been there since June. Two weeks ago I underwent a Enterocutaneous Gastric plug procedure. The jury is still out on if that is working or not. I have started drinking clear liquids and protein drinks though I can only do a little of this. I have even managed to eat a scrambled egg with cheese and some onion, but that takes me about 30 minutes to get through and yes, it's usually cold by the time I get to the end of it. 

It took about 10 months for my stamina to start to return and for me to feel fairly normal. I do a lot more now, but I'm proud of being able to do it. My recovery has been a learning process, tough and long.

As a revision I am an anomaly, but you should know that sometimes things do not always go the way we think they will.  

As for weight loss I'm down 115 pounds, most of which was lost during the few months I was not on enteral feeding or TPN.  Please know that revision can have complications. Often they have a 20 to 30% higher incident of gastric leak. Don't let this sway your decision. Just be educated about your WLS surgeon choice and know that complications and issues can happen.

Blessings, 
Maddie 
 

                   HW (pre RNY) 430 HW (pre DS) 302 / SW 288 /
                          Lowest weight 157 / CW 161
GW 150
                "I'm just one stomach flu away from my goal weight"
                                       
pepsi98
on 9/28/10 8:10 am - Norwich, CT
On September 28, 2010 at 3:48 AM Pacific Time, Renfairewench wrote:
If you are willing to travel there are a few other revision surgeons out there. My brain is mush right now so I know some of our other vetted members here will speak up and give you some names. I know that Dr. Greenbaum in NJ is one, but right now he has a moratorium on revision patients right now because he has a back log of them who are waiting 6 - 7 months from insurance approval to surgery so he has stopped taking them for now.

I have a friend who gained almost all of her lost RNY weight back and had a revision to DS and lost 80 pounds in six months and then her weight loss just stopped cold. Now, personally I think she looks amazing and normal, but she feels like her DS failed her because she is not at a normal BMI (I think she is around 180). The doctor considers her a success because she has lost something like 60% of her excess weight. In speaking with her it seems like she has some very difficult genetic metabolic issues where she would practically have to eat NOTHING in order to get to a normal BMI.  I don't think that it is the way she is eating either (i.e., too many carbs).

I am curious, how much weight did you lose when you had your RNY?  How long was your intestinal bypass?  How much did you lose when you had the band put on? How has your diet been post WLS? How much have you gained?  Are you taking any responsibility for the weight gain? 

Your revision does sound complicated, but not impossible, and if you are feeling like he has never done a revision like you then seek another surgeon who has done more complicated revisions. Lots of things can happen post revision. I know, I've gone through a lot and I have a very vetted DS surgeon who has done many revisons.  Here is an updated short version of what has happened to me. I blame no one for the problems I had, except the picc line issue, but that's another story entirely.  It was and is just my body's inability to cope I suppose.

On August 10Th I underwent revision surgery from an RNY to a DS. There were some issues after wards. My heart rate was out of control and for some reason my normally low blood pressure was in outer space. I was heavily drugged on pain medication and placed in the critical care unit. I was given medication by a specialist which brought down my BP and heart rate to more normal levels.  Forty-eight hours later I was sent back to the operating room because I repeatedly  failed the upper GI test and because I was throwing up old blood, saliva, and the gastrografin contrast. Basically, the contrast nor anything else would go down into my stomach and would remain only in my esophagus. The second operation did not make me happy, but was necessary. There was an area in my stomach that had been necessarily over sewn because it was a weak spot. It got very swollen and the contrast from the upper GI was not going into my stomach, but rather backing up into my esophagus. I woke up again in recovery saying the same thing I did the first time. "Pain PAIN PAIN, HURT HURT HURT, PAIN PAIN PAIN!!!!" I was quickly given pain medication and sent back to CCU in a wonderful pain free drug haze.  I spent 9 days there when I was moved to a regular room on a Wednesday. I was supposed to be discharged 2 days later on that Friday, but my incision got red and hot and decided to leak sero-sanquenous fluid and had to be opened in two places. This despite having two JP drains. Not a pretty sight at all I tell ya. It was packed daily and dressed. Due to the draining of my incision I was not allowed to leave the hospital until the following Wednesday. Came home with a PICC line, a J-tube and home health care nurses to assist with enteral feedings and thrice daily IV antibiotics. I was not allowed to eat anything, and only allowed small amounts of water and or ice.  By this point I had been NPO for the 17 days I was in the hospital and would continue to be NPO for a total of 55 days. The days that followed my return home,  the arm I had the Picc line in started to hurt like hell and by Sunday night (home only 4 days)  my temperature went up to 102.6. We knew that something bad was going on. I called Dr. Greenbaums office and the answering service connected me directly with him. He told me to pack a bag and get back to the hospital. Turned out I had a subclavian clot (a DVT) caused by the PICC line. The PICC Line was superficially infected and was removed, but because I needed IV antibiotics I had to have another one put in my left arm. I was put on Warfarin and Lovonox while in the hospital. Spent another week in the hospital and was released. Came home on Warfarin and again started to settle in. Got a visit from the visiting nurse a few days later and she packed my wound and dressed it. I went to bed later that evening and Todd my husband came up a few hours later to hook up my enteral feeding (I had a J-tube) to discover that my night shirt was soaked. He took off the dressing and discovered white viscous ick (gastric stuff) everywhere. We called Dr. Greenbaum the next morning and back to the hospital I went with a packed bag. Turns out my stomach organ got a leak in the area that had been previously swollen. It caused a fistula which was draining out of the open incision. I spent another week in the hospital again. This time I came home with a Wound Vac pump. Total time in the hospital over Aug. and September was about 27 days.

For 60 days I wore the wound vac pump while it sucked out ick from my stomach and helped close my incision. In mid October the J-tube was  removed and I was put on full liquids. I'm no longer tied to the Vac pump . The PICC line was removed at the beginning of October. I had been moved from nothing bu****er to clear liquids to full liquids to actually eating, but eating has been tough most days and still continues to be. I threw up almost every time I ate anything. I've been moved back and forth from full liquids to soft foods. Learning to eat again is an adventure and sometimes a nightmare. I have a lot of food intolerance. Most meats are impossible for me to eat. Most of my protein came from cottage cheese, Greek yogurt, and protein drinks. 

For the last 13 months I have dealt with the gastric leak and fistula. In April I was put on TPN and made to go NPO. This was only supposed to be for a couple of weeks. It's turned into nearly 6 months. In June I got sepsis from the tunneled PICC which was in my jugular vein and being used to infuse the TPN. That PICC was removed and a Groshong cath was inserted into my subcavian vein just above my left breast and has been there since June. Two weeks ago I underwent a Enterocutaneous Gastric plug procedure. The jury is still out on if that is working or not. I have started drinking clear liquids and protein drinks though I can only do a little of this. I have even managed to eat a scrambled egg with cheese and some onion, but that takes me about 30 minutes to get through and yes, it's usually cold by the time I get to the end of it. 

It took about 10 months for my stamina to start to return and for me to feel fairly normal. I do a lot more now, but I'm proud of being able to do it. My recovery has been a learning process, tough and long.

As a revision I am an anomaly, but you should know that sometimes things do not always go the way we think they will.  

As for weight loss I'm down 115 pounds, most of which was lost during the few months I was not on enteral feeding or TPN.  Please know that revision can have complications. Often they have a 20 to 30% higher incident of gastric leak. Don't let this sway your decision. Just be educated about your WLS surgeon choice and know that complications and issues can happen.

Blessings, 
Maddie 
OMG Maddie...what an ordeal you went through!!!  When I had my original surgery I lost 120 lbs and ended up at about 180 but of course didn't stay there for very long.  At this point I'd give my right arm to be 180 again.  I lost about 40 with the band, but that's about it and I now hover between 290-299.  Since I saw Roslin, I am a little nervous now about any surgery.  I really think he kind of spooked me, not to mention that I've read about redundant colons etc etc.  My diet is far from what it should be, but it's not the worst either.  I am addicted to carbs, but feel I could change my ways easier if I had something to sho for it.

I guess I would ask you...would you do it again given all the complications?  Thank you so much for your post...I think it was the bit of realism that I needed to hear.

Sue
 "The Joy of the Lord is your strength."  Nehemiah 8:10


START:  330         CURRENT:  274.5 lbs         GOAL:  190          TOTAL:  55.5 lbs

 



Renfairewench
on 9/28/10 8:43 am
I guess I would ask you...would you do it again given all the complications? 

That's a tough question to which I honestly don't know how to answer. I'll often reply to this question with "Ask me when I get to 140 pounds!" but I'm not far from that now.  On one hand maybe yes, maybe no, I really don't know. Losing 115 pounds has made me find my smile again and feel tons better about myself. I know that when I get off of TPN I'll probably / hopefully drop 40 to 50 more pounds. How can I complain about that? I'll be at a weight I haven't seen since I was probably 13 years old!  Then on the other hand I would say no, not if I KNEW I was going to have so many things go wrong. I knew that I could have a leak and I pulled the (un)lucky lottery ticket for that one, but so many issues happened. At one very low point I wondered if I would pull out of it all?  I have not really complained much about the complications. They happened, I went through them. Even with the chronic leak most everyone will tell you that I rarely ever vented about it. I think having a postitive outlook and attitude is better than being "oh woe is me...."  I have hope and it's that hope that I will be able to eat more than 4 mini mozzarella balls or more than one egg or meat! It may take some time for me to be able to overcome many of these issues, but I think it will happen.  So I guess the answer to your question is, I just don't know. For a long time I was NO WAY! Somedays I'm like YES! I'd do it again, but not tomorrow, and some times I'm in a I dunno place. It could be worse, but it isn't and I'm recovering and hoping to move on soon.

If you have any gut feeling that Roslin can't handle your revision than for goodness sake seek another revision surgeon. It might cost you more out of pocket, but having a surgeon who has encountered the issues you have is only in your favor.

I didn't tell you my story to scare you, but to inform and educate you on just what can go wrong even with one of the best surgeons.

Maddie
 

                   HW (pre RNY) 430 HW (pre DS) 302 / SW 288 /
                          Lowest weight 157 / CW 161
GW 150
                "I'm just one stomach flu away from my goal weight"
                                       
Kerry J.
on 9/27/10 8:58 pm - Santa Clara, UT
I'll bet Dr. Rabkin could and would do it without even blinking. I got the same kind of response you got when I spoke to a number of DS surgeons about revising me. Even Anthone wouldn't commit to doing a revision to DS on me; said he would have to wait and see what he had to deal with when he got inside. That was not good enough for me and I kept looking; Dr. Rabkin said, no problem, done revisions like mine before etc. And he did it and here I am 2 years later loving life, like I never thought possible.

The thing is this; doing revisions like ours is about the time it takes and the surgeons ability to take their time and work their way through all the scar tissue and adhesion's and problems. For a surgeon to revise you, he will have to be very patient and committed to doing what it takes to get everything fixed up correctly. It took Dr. Rabkin two surgeries to fix me; the first one was 8 1/2 hours, then three days later the second one took 4 1/2 hours. I'm sure it was hard for him to do it, I know it was hard on me to stand all the time under anesthesia and the recovery was rough; it took me a good two months to start feeling normal again. But like most things in life, sometimes the best things take some pain and suffering to get to them and the revision to DS really fit that description.

My revision was expensive; it cost me about $40,000.00 out of pocket, it was painful, it was grueling, it was 2 months of misery, it was hard on my family, it was really hard on Barb and I looked so bad after the surgery, it scared the hell out of my employees. But it was worth it all in spades and I would do it again in a heartbeat, no question about it.

You just have to decide if you're going to give up and live with what you've got, or if you're going to find a way to get it done. I would find a way to get it done, but you are not me and only you can decide if getting a revision to DS is worth the time, effort, money and misery to you.

Good luck with your decision,

Kerry

Renfairewench
on 9/27/10 9:05 pm
You are such an inspiration to so many Kerry! 

 

                   HW (pre RNY) 430 HW (pre DS) 302 / SW 288 /
                          Lowest weight 157 / CW 161
GW 150
                "I'm just one stomach flu away from my goal weight"
                                       
NoMore B.
on 9/27/10 11:15 pm
I'm a big fan of Dr Roslin, and know he's a skilled surgeon and doing more and more RNY to DS revisions.  That being said, he is also a pretty conservative surgeon, so if he's telling you that he's not sure he should do it, that's a red flag to consult with another surgeon.

I am surprised though, that you came away with thought he felt that you were looking for surgery to "do the work for you".  I've talked to him many times about obesity and he really believes that it is a disease, and that regain is not the fault of the patient.  He talks about how, even with WLS, your body "fights him every step of the way", meaning how even with the DS we grow more villi, etc. 

Your revision sounds very complex.  There are only a handfull of surgeons that have a great deal of experience with that kind of complexity - I would seek out Dr Rabkin or Dr K and see what they say.
pepsi98
on 9/28/10 8:16 am - Norwich, CT
On September 28, 2010 at 6:15 AM Pacific Time, Joanne B. wrote:
I'm a big fan of Dr Roslin, and know he's a skilled surgeon and doing more and more RNY to DS revisions.  That being said, he is also a pretty conservative surgeon, so if he's telling you that he's not sure he should do it, that's a red flag to consult with another surgeon.

I am surprised though, that you came away with thought he felt that you were looking for surgery to "do the work for you".  I've talked to him many times about obesity and he really believes that it is a disease, and that regain is not the fault of the patient.  He talks about how, even with WLS, your body "fights him every step of the way", meaning how even with the DS we grow more villi, etc. 

Your revision sounds very complex.  There are only a handfull of surgeons that have a great deal of experience with that kind of complexity - I would seek out Dr Rabkin or Dr K and see what they say.
Yea the red flags went up when I realized that he had never done anything like my revision, so right there I knew he wasn't the one.  I guess what got me was when he said that I would have to "know where my end point was". I guess meaning how far and to what lengths was I willing to go to be thin.  When I found out that he and my band surgeon were such good friends, I knew without a doubt that his opinion had been clouded and I don't think he saw me in the same light anymore.

 "The Joy of the Lord is your strength."  Nehemiah 8:10


START:  330         CURRENT:  274.5 lbs         GOAL:  190          TOTAL:  55.5 lbs

 



mquirkygirl
on 9/28/10 12:36 am - New York City, NY
I have mixed feelings about Roslin.  Not gonna lie to you. 

Go see someone else.


                                  5'10", HW: 326/SW: 280/CW: 181/Goal: 165

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