OT - Black is black but c'mon...
It doesn't matter that his name is on the Birth Cert..."George Washington" could be on there but that does not mean that he is the father. There is a Presumption of Paternity when a couple is married, but that presumption can be rebutted with evidence to the contrary...Clearly, Mike is NOT the biological father...if need be DNA can prove it. Someone mentioned The Family Trust...if his estate went to the Family Trust then that is the "pool of money" of which the kids will be taken care of...NOW, the language of the Trust is what will control distribution of those funds, NOT the Will. Clearly Mike was an astute business man and he knew that the vultures would come out if he died before the kids reached majority, so he prepared for that. Only time will tell what is really going on with the estate.
Be Well, Live Well
I Am Most Excellent - Affirmed Only Of GOD.
I wish for You, what I pray for Myself: Wellness, Happiness and Success In ALL Things Good!
I know for Sure I Control: My Attitude and Effort, My Health and Happiness.
On July 9, 2009 at 9:29 AM Pacific Time, ValueMe wrote:
Hey DA:I thought everybody knew that the kids were not his biological children. And now we also know that he did NOT even adopt them. Basically he Bought them from Debbie Rowe for 8.5 million dollars and she did not give up her parental rights; I suspect this is why Mike left all of his estate to the Family Trust. I'm no expert in Family Law but I don't think any money will follow the kids (even though he was married to Debbie Rowe when the first 2 were born, he is not the putative or biological father so he really has no financial obligation to them), so if Debbie Rowe is negotiating with the Family it is probably about letting them Keep the Kids and she gets another pay off.
WOW, Debbie Rowe has made a living out of pimping those kids. If I were the Jacksons, I'd say, NOT ONE More Penny...if You (Debbie Rowe) want custody, we'll fight you in Court for that, and if you win in any part then YOU and the Biological father take care of the kids.
ETA: I appreciate Joe Jackson. If not for his drive to be something that family probably would have been just another bunch of steel workers, sanitation workers, secretaries... Frankly, I don't put Mike's problems on Joe...that has been Mike's EXCUSE for everything that he made wrong in his own life, "Joe beat me so I needed to sleep with young boys", HELL TO THE NOOO! Abuse to Mike probably was just a regular ass whopping to most of us and his other sibblings (but then they don't need an EXCUSE to DO WRONG!) There are probably millions of people who wish they had a father who cared enough to be in there lives, work 2 jobs to support them, THEN, took the time after work to help them find their talent and push them to Excellence. Mike IS the King of Pop but he was a "whiner" when he couldn't have his way. I give BIG Props to Joe Jackson in helping to raise his kids the best way he knew how and making a Family of means...this from a man with No "education" or worldly knowledge at the time he was doing it; he was just a man with a dream and willing to work hard for it. Don't villify Joe for Mike's mistakes...NONE of the other 8 kids seem to have any "problems" nor did any of them seem to have problems standing up to Joe and living their own lives. Even Janet "Took Control" of her life, even younger than most "normal" kids break away from their parents. BIG Props to Joe Jackson for doing his best to raise his family.
Value Me write this day down, I so so agree with you in regards to Joe Jackson. 
I was telling my husband the same thing the other day if Joe was such a horrible dad WHY was Michael the ONLY dysfunctional child out of what 8 kids????
I can say some negative stuff about my own daddy, BUT he took care of home first and worked two jobs to provide for my mother, myself and my two brothers...
Thank-you Mrs. Rhonda. I was pulling from My experience also...My Dad died of a massive heart attack...working 2 jobs doing his best trying to provide for 4 kids, just imagine 9 kids and a say at home wife, and no in-laws to help. That's a massive responsibility.
Be Well, Live Well
I Am Most Excellent - Affirmed Only Of GOD.
I wish for You, what I pray for Myself: Wellness, Happiness and Success In ALL Things Good!
I know for Sure I Control: My Attitude and Effort, My Health and Happiness.
Joe Jackson pushed his kids hard...i e pimped them....to live HIS dream, he was in a small time band. Most of them have alluded to the fact that he beat their azz more than what is regular. You going to tell me that a regular azz whuppin' is when you stand over your kids with a belt and have them practice for hours and hours a day and beat them until they get it 'right'? And he used to tell him how ugly his nose was...no wonder all the plastics. Along with LaToya, Janet, and a few of the others. Definitely no lifetime achievement award in the Father category for HIM.
Are you kidding?! Joe Jackson SHOULD get a Father of the Year award and be highlighted as a shining example for not just black fathers but fathers everywhere.
He took the tools that he had and helped create some of the most memorable moments in American history. If he didn't have a firm hand, by today's standards, those feather-lite voiced men would be either strung out on drugs, in jail, coming home from jail, or suffering from massive identity crises - just like the DeBarge kids.
Oops!
He took the tools that he had and helped create some of the most memorable moments in American history. If he didn't have a firm hand, by today's standards, those feather-lite voiced men would be either strung out on drugs, in jail, coming home from jail, or suffering from massive identity crises - just like the DeBarge kids.
Oops!
Joe might have busted his azz in the beginning...but I will stand by my opinion, he turned his children into his cash cows, and Mike was the golden calf. He been sittin' on his azz for YEARS thanks to his children. And I find it interesting that it comes out that he and Katherine haven't LIVED together for years....and the others have alluded to how abusive he was. That speaks volumes to me. I don't care what he pushed them to be, I have no respect for him...trying to promote his record label or whatever when they asked him about the death of his son. I agree, we need to be 'hard' on our kids, esp when compared to today's lowly standards...but there is taking it too far, and I believe that to be the case here.
And leave the DeBarge's alone. LOL
And leave the DeBarge's alone. LOL
Hey Ms.Valena:
I'm sure if Joe had known Freudian Psychology he would have used it. I'm not saying that's the way I would have reared MY kids, but then I do know Freudian Psychology. I'm saying Joe Jackson did his best and he did a dayum good job! But for Joe Jackson there would be no "King of Pop" Michael Jackson. Think about this: Asian Americans score higher on IQ Tests than all Americans, especially in Math. When you talk to professionally successful Asian Americans they will tell you about the pressure that was put on them to achieve and the 5,6,7 hours a day that they had to study as children. Pressure turns coal into Diamonds, it also may cause valves to burst. But then, isn't that a chance we have to take for the best reward. I still believe that 90-95% of Black kids would WANT a Dad in their lives like Joe Jackson.
I don't know how you were reared but in a lot of Black families, somebody is always saying something on somebody is "ugly". Frankly, the Jackson Family trait of the "NOSE" needed a little hep, and many of them (all of them, I think, including Joe has had a nose job).
I know this, when a person matures to adulthood they have to take Responsibility for their life...Mike didn't want to do that when it came to his "desires". Mike was very astute, he did what he wanted to do. I have NO sorrow for the Situations he put himself in...he was WARNED by Everyone that was close to him about sleeping with young boys. If anybody else did what Mike did, we would THROW them under the jail first and "inquire" into their upbringing AFTER they served their time and got raped in the Pen.
Mike IS the King of Pop, that is totally different than his personal Life. Just like what I do on My job has nothing to do with after I leave the office. BY The way, did you know that the King of Rock and Roll (ELVIS PRESSLEY) was a pedophile. Yes Elvis started dating Miss Pricilla when she was 14 years old and had sex with her at that age (according to a book on them); Elvis even her sent to live with his parents at Graceland when he was in the war. A GROWN Twenty Something year old man dating a 14 year old girl and later living with her. Yea, people have big problems in their personal lives...and when they step outside of the "Norm" we need to call them on it, NOT make more excuses for their wrongful actions. Mike's problems were on Mike, NOT Joe.
I'm sure if Joe had known Freudian Psychology he would have used it. I'm not saying that's the way I would have reared MY kids, but then I do know Freudian Psychology. I'm saying Joe Jackson did his best and he did a dayum good job! But for Joe Jackson there would be no "King of Pop" Michael Jackson. Think about this: Asian Americans score higher on IQ Tests than all Americans, especially in Math. When you talk to professionally successful Asian Americans they will tell you about the pressure that was put on them to achieve and the 5,6,7 hours a day that they had to study as children. Pressure turns coal into Diamonds, it also may cause valves to burst. But then, isn't that a chance we have to take for the best reward. I still believe that 90-95% of Black kids would WANT a Dad in their lives like Joe Jackson.
I don't know how you were reared but in a lot of Black families, somebody is always saying something on somebody is "ugly". Frankly, the Jackson Family trait of the "NOSE" needed a little hep, and many of them (all of them, I think, including Joe has had a nose job).
I know this, when a person matures to adulthood they have to take Responsibility for their life...Mike didn't want to do that when it came to his "desires". Mike was very astute, he did what he wanted to do. I have NO sorrow for the Situations he put himself in...he was WARNED by Everyone that was close to him about sleeping with young boys. If anybody else did what Mike did, we would THROW them under the jail first and "inquire" into their upbringing AFTER they served their time and got raped in the Pen.
Mike IS the King of Pop, that is totally different than his personal Life. Just like what I do on My job has nothing to do with after I leave the office. BY The way, did you know that the King of Rock and Roll (ELVIS PRESSLEY) was a pedophile. Yes Elvis started dating Miss Pricilla when she was 14 years old and had sex with her at that age (according to a book on them); Elvis even her sent to live with his parents at Graceland when he was in the war. A GROWN Twenty Something year old man dating a 14 year old girl and later living with her. Yea, people have big problems in their personal lives...and when they step outside of the "Norm" we need to call them on it, NOT make more excuses for their wrongful actions. Mike's problems were on Mike, NOT Joe.
Be Well, Live Well
I Am Most Excellent - Affirmed Only Of GOD.
I wish for You, what I pray for Myself: Wellness, Happiness and Success In ALL Things Good!
I know for Sure I Control: My Attitude and Effort, My Health and Happiness.
just had this exact convo.
presha turns coal into diamonds. yup yup and yup. ITA, but and however, as a parent you need to ask yourself if what you're doing is worth ruining your baby's spirit when you may not even wind up with a gem. yes, expect excellence, yes drive your children but one of your other jobs is to find the balance. the most telling thing about his allegations was that though none of the siblings publicly agreed with him, n'air one of em has publicly DISAGREED either.
yeah make and mold your child but understand that each comes with the essence of who they already are. not saying an adult should continue to point to their parents for their failings but let's not categorize what joe jackson did as normal disciplinary behavior. none of those kids can keep a marriage or career (exluding janet) intact, they have each been or were the perpetrators of abusive relationships and in a family of 8 children, if both of your parents were loving, that's a) too disproportionate to be a coincidence and b) not worth any amount of cash. for all that family's wealth put together there isn't an ounce of happiness in the bunch. joe might not be a devil, but a hero, hayle naw.
p.s. totally disagree with the impossibility of looking exclusively white if you're biracial. mariah carey's mother on oprah few years back they showed pics of her at 8, 10 years old, no trace of her father.
presha turns coal into diamonds. yup yup and yup. ITA, but and however, as a parent you need to ask yourself if what you're doing is worth ruining your baby's spirit when you may not even wind up with a gem. yes, expect excellence, yes drive your children but one of your other jobs is to find the balance. the most telling thing about his allegations was that though none of the siblings publicly agreed with him, n'air one of em has publicly DISAGREED either.
yeah make and mold your child but understand that each comes with the essence of who they already are. not saying an adult should continue to point to their parents for their failings but let's not categorize what joe jackson did as normal disciplinary behavior. none of those kids can keep a marriage or career (exluding janet) intact, they have each been or were the perpetrators of abusive relationships and in a family of 8 children, if both of your parents were loving, that's a) too disproportionate to be a coincidence and b) not worth any amount of cash. for all that family's wealth put together there isn't an ounce of happiness in the bunch. joe might not be a devil, but a hero, hayle naw.
p.s. totally disagree with the impossibility of looking exclusively white if you're biracial. mariah carey's mother on oprah few years back they showed pics of her at 8, 10 years old, no trace of her father.
be happy, laughter burns calories
yes, expect excellence, yes drive your children but one of your other jobs is to find the balance.
Some modern-day parents are still finding this hard to do. Look at the way they act at children's soccer matches and T-Ball games. Some of them act as if they bought Pelee's or Derek Jeter's sperm and expect immediate return on their investments.
"for all that family's wealth put together there isn't an ounce of happiness in the bunch."
Now that's sad.
p.s. totally disagree with the impossibility of looking exclusively white if you're biracial. mariah carey's mother on oprah few years back they showed pics of her at 8, 10 years old, no trace of her father.
Darkened-skin and kinky hair, doth not a Negro make.
Some modern-day parents are still finding this hard to do. Look at the way they act at children's soccer matches and T-Ball games. Some of them act as if they bought Pelee's or Derek Jeter's sperm and expect immediate return on their investments.
"for all that family's wealth put together there isn't an ounce of happiness in the bunch."
Now that's sad.
p.s. totally disagree with the impossibility of looking exclusively white if you're biracial. mariah carey's mother on oprah few years back they showed pics of her at 8, 10 years old, no trace of her father.
Darkened-skin and kinky hair, doth not a Negro make.
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