Jehovah Witnesseses please...

Please don't take offense to this post as I do not mean to disrespect your religious views but I need to understand.

My friend that posts here but not regularly had surgery on Wednesday to remove a blood clot in her brain.  She is 40.  She had WLS and has a new lease on life.  She has a lot of life yet to live on this earth.

She is having complications from the surgery and needs blood.  She is refusing to take it due to her beliefs. 

As a side note, she wasn't a Witness until she married her ex-husband.  She converted since he was a Witness and kept the faith even when she left the marriage due to his long-term infidelity whi*****lude children.

While I respect people's faith I am ANGRY at the fact that to me she is essentially committing suicide. 

I am angry at the selfishness of refusing the treatment to save her life for a religious belief that wasn't adopted until the 1940s.

I am angry that she is keeping this belief although her husband who brought her into the religion committed ADULTERY...a sin regardless of religious choice.  She is keeping faith to a religion that the man who brought her into it couldn't even keep.

I struggle with organized religion even within my own faith.  So I am really struggling with this.  My God believes that every sin can be forgiven if you ask with pure heart and not under false pretenses.  The God I know puts people on this Earth to save your life, medically or otherwise.  The God I know doesn't put a number on the people who are let into heaven.

There are over 7 million Witnesses not to mention those who have already died.  In a simple question of numbers, why would you kill yourself over a policy that was adopted in 1940s when the chances of you making it into heaven are slim to none. In the big picture of things the number of innocent Witness children that have died and have no sin, complete that magic number alone.

Please help me to understand...

and for everyone else, please pray for my friend.

First let me start off by saying that my heart goes out to you for your friend. It is obvious that you care very deeply for her. She sounds like a wonderful woman and friend to you.

Now let me address the problem at hand. I was born and raised as one of Jehovah's Witnesses. As an adult I strayed a bit from practicing and by no means can be held up as a model for someone to follow. That is my disclaimer.

Now don't take this the wrong way but how DARE you question someone elses religeous beliefs? Freedom of Religeon is our constitutional right. Your friend at anytime could make the decision to walk away and stop practicing. She chooses not to because that is where her Faith lies. When she made the decision to have Weight Loss Surgery trust me she did so knowing she would not accept blood if she needed to. I won't be accepting it either. We live in a world that accepts anything. Very rarely do you find someone who stands up for what they believe in. We as Jehovah's Witnesses value life. We don't want to see anyone die. We want medical professionals to give us the best care they possibly can. But if it conflicts with what WE BELIEVE god wants then we side with god. That is the only thing that medically we will not waver on.

What ****** me off is the lack of respect people show us.  I have many many non-witness friends. I do not try and convert them and I respect their religeous views. I only expect the same consideration in return. And if I had to bet your friend would feel the same way. Instead of coming down on her, try supporting her as I am sure she supports you.

*If you want I will Backline you later the biblical reasons why she is making this decision.

**And you know you are still my girl.

Andrea, please do explain. I used to have a close friend that was JW but this one thing she never really explained much about. I don't think Tonya was really questioning her friend's beliefs. I think it is just difficult to understand the stance in a life or death situation. I know many people that practice many different faiths, but generally speaking, people take what they need or what they feel is right from their belief system and apply it to every day life. Yes, I commend people for having especially strong faith, but it is MY belief that certain things fly in the face of common sense, this being one. I am not attacking anyone's beliefs. I believe we ALL serve the SAME God, regardless of what label you give Him/Her. Religion though often comes on the heels of what MAN believes, and not necessarily God. At least that is what I believe. I may get roasted for it but that is how I feel.

No and I subscribe to each its own philosphy.  If that is what you believe and want to do fine. But don't tell me I am wrong because I CHOOSE not to do that. Do you realize there are many countries that do not have the freedom of choice? That you cannot practice what you believe openly or you will be jailed. I think its a slippery slope when you start taking away peoples freedom and choices.

But as far as explaining it to you I can't right off the top of my head. Its a very deep topic and I want to be completely accurate in what I tell you. When I go home for lunch I will look it up and Backline you the answer.

Andrea,

My question and always has been the what if...I struggle with religions (not faith based beliefs) because I am very well read and have always wondered why.   And when it concerns my friend living or dying then hell yes I am questioning a "doctrine" that was adopted in the 1940s well after the church was organized.

I was raised Catholic and I questioned things as a child.  I asked things like "if you have to be baptized Catholic to go to heaven, what happens if you are a baby and die before being baptized.  Do they go to hell?" 

NO ONE could ever answer that question.

I have studied the JW religion as well as almost every other in my quest to find just what I believe in.

I know that according to your church, you as a single parent who had a child out of wedlock are set to never inherit God's Kingdom.  The exact quote from your church is "that no fornicators will inherit God's Kingdom and will be destroyed along with all other sinners at the day of God the Almighty or frear-inspiring day..."Your church goes on to say that "there is no way around it, even when you think is is love, is not love in God's eyes."

I can't wrap my head around an angry God like that, a God that will cast people to hell for a sin that his son died for.  A sin that like you I have committed but with forgiveness I am still going to heaven.

So please don't get pissed off at my questioning.  I seek knowledge, understanding to something that is so far off the beaten path for me to comprehend logically let alone religiously. 

(and I hope you are still my girl with this response.)

Oh of course this world is made up of all different kinds of people with different ideas and perspectives. And from the outside looking in this a very hard thing to accept that someone could possible choose something that may mean their life. But that is when Faith comes in. You can have all of the knowledge in the world but without faith you really have nothing. That is what your friend has she has faith. There are a lot of other non blood alternatives that we have found to be very successful when a lot of blood has been lost. We choose to try those avenues first. We work with our physicians to find a medical treatment that will help us physically without compromising what we religeously believe. I hope the best for your friend I truly truly do. My prayers will definately be with her.

But let me just clear up another misconception that you may have as well.

I know that according to your church, you as a single parent who had a child out of wedlock are set to never inherit God's Kingdom.  The exact quote from your church is "that no fornicators will inherit God's Kingdom and will be destroyed along with all other sinners at the day of God the Almighty or frear-inspiring day..."Your church goes on to say that "there is no way around it, even when you think is is love, is not love in God's eyes."

That quote is from the bible not from a doctorine that is made up. All Christian bibles say the same exact thing. But our belief is scripturly based. God is a god of love. If I did not repent and turn away from my sins then no I would not inherit God's kingdom. As long as I have a repentent heart then I have a shot. We all are sinners. God reads the heart. It is us humans that are harsher judges of character. Not God. We consistently have talks (church folk call it sermons) about not being judgemental and not saying who is going to make it and who isn't. We do not make that call. Only God does. We are not perfect and God doesn't expect us to be. That is why Jesus died on the stake for our sins. I hate debating religeon. I usually stay out of conversations like this. If someone genuinely has a question about why I believe what I believe I don't mind answering it. But I don't like to turn it into a you are right and I am wrong situation.

I'm truly not trying to turn it into a who's right/who's wrong situation.  At the end of the day, we all want to believe in a higher power that provides us with an after-life...

I just want my friend to choose life.  This is the last stop for her--they have tried the other options.  Now it's take the blood or die. 

She is the only child of her mother.  Children are not supposed to die before their parents.  And as a mother, faith or not I can honestly say that I would do everything in my power to have my child live. 

Please don't think that I am trying to convert you, accuse you of mis-belief, etc.  I just cannot comprehend not taking the blood that will save her life.

There was a point when they didn't believe in vaccines or organ donation.  I wonder if things may change with the blood.

This is an issue of faith now for her...but there was no issue when we celebrated her birthday nor when she voted for Obama.

Do you see my point?

Taw i am feeling for you at the moment. I think a lot is missing your question and taking it as an attack. I honestly don't think you was trying to attack anyone's faith. However just confused about somethings. ( which i have no clue to answer since i never was a JW) From some of your posts this what i gathered..1. your friend made a decision based on faith, however not all her decisions up to this point has went with the doctrine. For example: her celebrating her birthday.

Its hard when someone been told you either do this or you die...and they choose not to do it. It is hard to understand that choice. Just because you don't agree with your friend decision does not mean you won't be there to support her (as some have jump to conclusion).  It just mean you don't agree and you are looking for some answers. Maybe you can try gently talking to your friend? Asking her more questions about it? Since even if someone does practice JW , she is still the only one who knows exactly what is going through her mind at this moment.

Go to her and explain some of your confusions and tell you want to learn. That way maybe she won't take it as an attack instead she will see a friend that wants to know more about her beliefs and how she made the decision and is able to stick with when face with such grim possibilities.

best of luck to your friend and you

I do see your point although my point differs from yours. I really feel bad for her. This is an issue I hope to never face. It is a hard hard decision to make. For myself there are two things I am willing to die for my religeous beliefs and my child. I hope to never be in that position that I have to make that decision but sometimes the hard choices must be made.

I personally don't see how anyone could choose to enlist in the army when we are presently at war. But people do. They feel strongly that they want to serve and protect this country. They are willing to die for their country. Even though I can't wrap my mind around doing that ever I can understand their passion.

I wanted to comment on two comments you made...

I was raised Catholic and I questioned things as a child.  I asked things like "if you have to be baptized Catholic to go to heaven, what happens if you are a baby and die before being baptized.  Do they go to hell?" 

jehovahs witnesses to not believe in hell as a place of firey torment. hell is simply your grave. the bible actually says jesus went to hell (acts 2:31) so in answer to your question, no. the baby would not go to the hell of torment. They would simple be in the ground unconcious of anything. no pain or suffering (ecclesiastes 9:5)

I can't wrap my head around an angry God like that, a God that will cast people to hell for a sin that his son died for.  A sin that like you I have committed but with forgiveness I am still going to heaven.

you shouldnt be able to wrap your head around it because its complete nonsense. The bible says God is love (1 john 4:8) that means everything he does is motivated by love. he is the personification of love. iIf you heard on the news that a parent  punished their child by  burning their hand for doing somthing wrong, we would be disgusted. we would think of taht person as horrible parent. so if god who loves us humans far more than we could eer love our own child, how could he allow them to burn forever and ever as punishment??? and you are exactly right. his son jesus died for our sins and so we recieve forgiveness through the blood of jesus christ.