There really is no disputing the facts. And, the facts are that African-American neighborhoods are not filled with healthy food options. We often have to travel to other areas to get the same quality of healthy, fresh food that is available to other ethnic groups. Yes, we also have poor health care if we have health care at all. Yes, we do lose weight differently and on and on.

My question is not one of pointing out statistics or debating whether information is racist and/or factual. My question is one of motive. Was the information disclosed to shed light on a problem which you would like to correct. IE are you planning on being a catalyst for change in the African-American communities by writing your local congressman/woman and shedding a light on the issue and making suggestions for improvements?

Or were you just throwing information out in the universe to spark a conversation and make a point? (Rhetorical questions,no response really needed)

Albert Einstein was quoted as saying that "The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil but because of the people who don't do anything about it."


All of the going back and forth on the Internet isn't really going to bring about any change.

Now, that you have this information are you compelled to volunteer in an African-American lower income community and teach them what you have learned about being healthy? That is of course if you aren't already doing so 



Go Well,


'The difference between myself and most people is that while they are busy talking about the problems; I'm busy working on the solutions." --Lena

That was so well put.

My motives:

1) To disseminate accurate information about the DS to ALL pre-ops and potential revision patients, so that they are able to make a fully informed decision.

2) To target specific groups for whom the DS is PARTICULARLY beneficial (SMOs, type  2 diabetics, blacks, Hispanics, people with a family history of stomach cancer, people with clotting disorders, people with arthritis or other pain management issues who have to take NSAIDs, etc.) with this information.

3) To help people who want the DS, but have to fight their insurance company, beat them.

Why did I start this thread?  Because I felt like it.  VM just provided an excuse to start the thread over here.

The fact that AA neighborhoods are not filled with healthy food choices reflects the choices that people make as much as what the grocery stores "want to sell" to the community.  If people want to buy healthy food, the stores will sell it.  That is simply the law of supply and demand.  I don't buy that there is a conspiracy to make AAs unhealthy.

I'm not going to get into a policial or socioeconomic discussion about this with you, because -- liberal though I am -- you won't want to hear what I have to say.  But if someone has gone to the trouble and expense of having gastric bypass surgery, I don't buy that their success has anything to do with the number of fast food restaurants in their neighborhood.  I'm sure there are places to buy appropriate foods and that the patients are smart enough to know what they are supposed to be eating.  I think it is more likely a biological effect, and one that AAs need to take into account when they chose their surgery.

AAs??? interesting

Ok, well being the erudite person that I am I realize that it all boils down to subjectivism versus objectivism.


I don’t usually go back and forth with people. I'm not the argumentative type. Yet, I feel the need to address your last statement:


"I'm not going to get into a policial or socioeconomic discussion about this with you, because -- liberal though I am -- you won't want to hear what I have to say."

Actually, I love politics and I wouldn't mind reading or hearing what you have to say/type. I respect the opinions of others just as much as I want them to respect mine. 

" But if someone has gone to the trouble and expense of having gastric bypass surgery, I don't buy that their success has anything to do with the number of fast food restaurants in their neighborhood." 

What are the stats on the number of healthy choices in African American (not AAs, AA is Alcoholics Anonymous) communities? What makes you think that African-Americans are paying for the expense? A lot of people not just African-American use government assisted medical care to cover WLS.

Once again subjective versus objective


I'm sure there are places to buy appropriate foods and that the patients are smart enough to know what they are supposed to be eating.  I think it is more likely a biological effect, and one that AAs need to take into account when they chose their surgery.

You may not buy it but what are the facts? If you gathered stats on the DS in various ethnic groups then why not go one step further and get stats on available food choices.  If people in general not just African Americans were "smart enough to know what they are supposed to be eating obesity would be nonexistent.  Why are there so many revisions? is it a matter of not being smart enough? Of course not!!


"I think it is more likely a biological effect, and one that AAs need to take into account when they chose their surgery. "

What are the facts?? Thinking is fine facts are better. That's just the way I am I research everything. Race, color, creed, socio-economic status. It doesn't matter. Ignorance is a blissful state for those that chose to live there, I don't dwell with ignorance.

Truly, I am not that interested in having a dialog about this -- I have other things I need to be putting my attention on right now, including my son, who just came back to our house today after being homeless, and who has finally asked for our help in finding some direction in his life.  But you put some time into your response and I don't want to fail to acknowledge that.

I believe in personal responsiblity, not blaming "the system" (a theme in talking to my son today).  My comments about proper food choices were specific to people who have had bariatric surgery, not the black community in general -- presumably, they had educational programs available prior to their surgeries.  If they fail to follow the rules they were taught, I doubt very much it is because they could not find lean protein and non-starchy vegetables near their homes.  If they make poor choices, it is on THEM, not on their proximity to McDonald's.

Your question about the statistics on the number of healthy choices in black communities (PUH-LEEZE with trying to be PC about black vs. African-American vs. the shorthand AA which I see other people on this forum use) is ridiculous -- all it takes is ONE place to obtain healthy food -- and I don't mean fast food.  This is the sort of thing that should be thought out and considered before having ANY bariatric surgery.  You have to have a plan.  So I don't care if there are 400 MickyDs, KFCs, Taco Bells or whatever in the neighborhood, all you need is ONE grocery store that sells uncooked chicken, frozen fish, tuna, eggs, milk, cheese, etc., as a source of healthy bariatric food.  It isn't about statistics -- it's about making choices.

Of course with the DS, those choices are a lot less strict -- KFC is a GOOD choice ro time to time.

If you don't want to believe the statistics about the higher rate of failure of lapband and RNY in blacks, that's fine.  Ignore what you don't wish to believe.  But to presume these statistics are racially BIASED and the product of a racist attempt to harm blacks is just paranoid and nuts as far as I'm concerned.

As for the comment of someone earlier in this thread about stress being a significant factor in obesity in black women, including single motherhood -- well, let me just repeat -- this is about personal responsibility too.  I think single motherhood is one of the primary reasons for the high incidence of poverty in blacks in the US, so pardon me if I have little sympathy for that particular excuse.  And I speak as someone who, when contemplating pregnancy (twice) with a husband who was mentally ill, asked myself if I would be willing and able to PROVIDE for a child on my own if it came to that.  Which it did, and I never got -- or needed -- a cent of welfare to do so.  Because I planned ahead. 

EVERYONE experiences stress -- mitigating it is a part of growing up and becoming a responsible adult.  Blaming obesity on the "woe is me" of being a black woman (or man) in America is a pretty tiresome refrain.  Guess what -- growing up a smart ambitious woman from a poor background coming of age in the 60s and 70s was no picnic either.  But you won't hear me griping about it -- even though at 55 I'm STILL paying off student loans.  I worked hard and made a lot of personal sacrifices to get where I am and I don't have much sympathy for those who don't take responsibility for their own destiny.

If there's one thing I hope Obama leaves as a legacy, it is that his blackness was irrelevant to his greatness as a president and leader of the free world.  I hope that someday there is no more interest in a BAF on OH than there is for a JAF (Jewish American Forum -- and I mean that in a cultural rather than religious sense).  Have I been subject to prejudice in my life as a woman, a Jewish woman, a woman from a poor background?  You bet.  And I noted it, and moved on.  I don't wear it on my sleeve.

Back to instilling these principles in my son, who has thus far failed to internalize them in his life, despite my best efforts.  I'm not too hopeful, however -- you can't fix stupid or stubborn.

Kroger Not Changing Gettysburg Plan

November 14, 2007

At a community meeting Tuesday evening city officials said Kroger will not reverse their decision to close their Gettysburg store at the end of this year.

Billed as the West Dayton Community Meeting to discuss Kroger’s announcement to close, residents wanted to know what city officials have done to prevent the store from closing.  The Kroger grocery store on Gettysburg opened in 1988 and is the only major chain located within five miles of the neighborhood. It serves West Dayton, southern Trotwood and northern Jefferson Township.Dayton City Commissioner Dean Lovelace reported to the crowd of 120 residents that the Mayor and other city officials recently met with Kroger officials who were not in attendance at this meeting.

“They told us the store was only profitable in four of the 20 years they operated that location," said Lovelace.

Residents wanted to know why the city had not offered to help them sooner.  Lovelace said that Kroger had never indicated to the city that the location was experiencing problems.

Lovelace said the city does not want a vacant building there for six to nine months and they are trying to find a new tenant for the site.  Kroger is in the last year of a 20-year lease with property owners located in New York.

State Representative Clayton Luckie said he was told during a two hour meeting with Kroger officials store losses were $250,000 annually.  He said the property’s owner had even offered a 25% rent reduction to keep Kroger from leaving.

“Kroger has already indicated that they will not change their minds about leaving," said Dayton City Manager Rashad Young.

A woman in the audience wanted answers to why they were deserting the predominately African-American neighborhood.  “I was raised on Kroger, they have been in the area for 45 years."  “I spent $400 plus there every month and I will now take my shopping to another store [not a Kroger]."

Another audience member wanted to know why the city would continue to negotiate with Kroger to build a new store near Wayne and Wyoming after abandoning the city in West Dayton.  Young explained that the city in that case is working with a developer that was unaware of the corporate decision being made to close this location.

Despite an invitation no one from Kroger attended this meeting in the nearby Westwood Community Center.

One of the organizers of the public meeting said he hopes that another grocer will come in and take the space.  Dr. Robert Walker, executive director of the Westwood Foundation wants the City of Dayton to work towards locating a quality grocer in the neighborhood.  He said the area’s demographics should support a full service market but may be more suitable for a local regional chain rather than a large national retailer.

Once again, the point is NOT whether a black post-WLS patient has a plethora of choices of places to shop -- the point is that it is UNLIKELY that the reason black WLS patients do more poorly is that they have NO option to eat a healthy diet.  They are either committed to it or they are not.  I drive past a KFC/Taco Bell on the corner near my house every damned day -- but I'm responsible for not stopping there.

I'm sorry, but I just don't believe there are many places where black people live that they have NO access to healthy food at affordable prices.  The KFC/Taco Bell may be CHEAPER, but so is library paste -- just because you can, doesn't mean you should.  And therefore, I don't believe that lack of grocery stores in black neighborhoods has any significant effect on the WLS failure rate of blacks -- I think it is metabolic and genetic.

And yet for some reason, it seems to be preferable to you to blame it on big business not providing equal access to big box grocery stores?  I don't understand this.  Big business is -- SURPRISE! -- in the business of making money.  If there is money to be made, then I think the stores would be there.  I think the stores have done the research, and they figured they weren't going to make money in those areas -- supply and demand.  Or, the cost of doing business in those areas is too high -- grocery stores rely on volume on VERY thin margins.  

In any event, your postings about the dearth of grocery stores misses the point.  Once again -- I am talking about individual responsibility of WLS patients, and I don't think the color of our skin matters here.  I don't believe that black WLS patients CAN'T make good food choices, and in fact, I don't believe black WLS patients DO make poor choices -- I think they are biologically and genetically programmed to do more poorly.  Which means they had better pick their WLS with this in mind.

And frankly, given that the DS diet is MORE amenable to eating high fat, I suppose I could suggest that as a reason blacks ought to think about the DS even more, if I was suggesting that they can't keep fast food out of their pie-holes, since big business is conspiring to make them fat by putting so much temptation in their way.  But THAT would be racist.

Do the Poor Pay More for Food? An Analysis of Grocery Store Availability and Food Price Disparities

CHANJIN CHUNG ¹ SAMUEL L. MYERS, JR. ²

  ¹ Chanjin Chung is Research Associate, Department of Agricultural, Resource, and Managerial Economics, Cornell University, Ithaca, NY   ² Samuel L. Myers, Jr. is Roy Wilkins Professor of Human Relations and Social Justice, Humphrey Institute of Public Affairs, University of Minnesota, Minneapolis.

The authors are grateful to Dr. Elaine Asp for providing invaluable help in designing the survey questionnaires and to four anonymous journal referees for their review comments. Support for this research was provided by the Minneapolis Urban League.

Journal of Consumer Affairs

Volume 33 Issue 2, Pages 276 - 296

Published Online: 3 Mar 2005

Copyright 2008 by The American Council on Consumer Interests

 

Copyright 1999 The American Council on Consumer Interests

ABSTRACT

Do the poor pay more for food? To answer this question, this study was conducted to provide an empirical analysis of grocery store access and prices across inner city and suburban communities within the Minneapolis and St. Paul metropolitan area. The comparison among different types of grocers and geographic areas is drawn from a survey of approximately fifty grocery items for fifty-five stores. Results indicate that the poor pay only slightly more in the Twin Cities grocery market. More significantly, those who shop in non-chain stores pay a significant premium, and the poor have less access to chain stores. This study reveals that the biggest factor contributing to higher grocery costs in poor neighborhoods is that large chain stores, where prices tend to be lower, are not located in these neighborhoods.

Great research, So Blessed. Interesting stuff.

 Here's more.

Access to healthy foods worse in poor areas

Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:00pm EST    

By Anne Harding

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - People who live in poorer neighborhoods in the U.S. are less likely to have easy access to supermarkets carrying a wide variety of fresh produce and other healthy food, an analysis of 54 studies confirms.

But they probably have plenty of unhealthy fast food joints to choose from, Dr. Nicole I. Larson of the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis and her colleagues found.

"The research I reviewed suggests there is a need for new policies and other local actions to address the problem of poor access to healthy foods in many lower income, rural, and minority communities," Larson told Reuters Health.

Evidence is mounting, Larson and her team note, that segregation of neighborhoods by "income, race, and ethnicity" plays a major role in US health disparities, and accessibility to healthy -- and unhealthy -- food may be a factor.

To investigate, they reviewed studies published between 1985 and 2008 that looked at food access by neighborhood in the United States. While supermarkets are likely to sell the widest variety of healthy foods at the cheapest prices, convenience stores usually charge more, and tend not to sell fresh food, the researchers note in the American Journal of Preventive Medicine.

The studies they reviewed confirmed that minority and low-income individuals who live near supermarkets have healthier diets. For example, one investigation found that the likelihood that African-Americans would meet guidelines for fruit and vegetable consumption rose by 32% with every additional supermarket located in the census tract where they lived.

Three studies found a reduced risk of obesity among people with more supermarkets in their neighborhood; two of these studies found a link between better access to convenience stores and increased obesity risk.

Research also clearly shows "stark racial and ethnic disparities" in the type of food stores available in neighborhoods, according to the researchers. One study showed that mostly-black neighborhoods had half as many chain supermarkets as predominantly white neighborhoods, while Hispanic neighborhoods had a third as many such stores as white areas.

Six studies in which investigators actually visited stores and checked out the merchandise found healthy foods like fresh produce, low fat dairy foods, high fiber breads and lean meats were more available and of higher quality in white neighborhoods than non-white neighborhoods. Rural communities also tend to have worse access to supermarkets, the researchers add.

Possible ways to encourage supermarkets to set up shop in lower income neighborhoods could include "financial incentives, helping to conduct market feasibility studies, assistance with parking/transportation plans, and assistance with site cleanup/assembly," Larson said. However, she added, there has been very little research on evaluating strategies or policies for reducing inequalities to access to healthy foods."

But the experience of other countries shows that there's no reason it can't be done; Larson pointed out that studies in New Zealand, Australia, Canada and Scotland found that supermarket availability was actually greater in lower-income neighborhoods.

SOURCE: American Journal of Preventive Medicine, January 2009.