Update on Lizzie (Schlesinger's screw up fixed by Mayo)
On December 9, 2009 at 4:33 PM Pacific Time, StacysMom wrote:
Absolutely right. I joined in September of 2008 solely so that I could put up posts. But, I have been reading since Fall of 2006 when a friend of mine who doesn't own a computer asked me to check OH out for him. Not the AZ board, though. I only came on here recently because of Joyce's blatant promotion activities of Schlesinger in 2008 on the Revisions board, so I followed her over to the AZ board. I was curious as to what was going on with her home board. And, I only post to clear up untruths and state facts. Nothing else in AZ is any of my business.Interesting how, when you folks can't attack what I am saying, you all attack ME! Gee - gosh darn! Could it be because everything I am saying is the truth and verifiable on public websites???
In 2008, I began reading about this Schlesinger guy on the Revisions board and thought some of these women were crazy to travel across the country to get the ERNY, when any experienced bariatric surgeon in their own areas could do the same surgery. But, it was NONE of my business, so I never posted, just read.
What was going on then was complete craziness. A "frenzy" was whipped up on the boards by various cheerleaders and office advocates and none of it made sense. He was promoted as being all "warm & fuzzy", the most caring doctor you'd ever want to meet - and then when I read his reviews, they almost ALL said that he was "wooden & robotic". I smelled something "fishy".
It was like seeing people jump on a bandwagon. I watched it happen from start to finish.
BTW, I don't badmouth anyone. I merely expose lies and untruths. If you view stating the truth as badmouthing, that's your prerogative. I only JOINED this thing because I was sick of seeing the blatant manipulation of those who were apparently not capable of doing their own research. Someone had to expose what was going on - and MidwesternGirl was the only one doing it and she was getting beaten up on these boards. I double checked everything she said and it turned out to be true. I guess I have a soft spot for the "underdog".
No doubt the rest of you are all buddies of Joyce's from all of those support groups she frequents constantly to promote whomever she is working for at the time. She is commendable!! I've never seen ANYONE go from job to job so often like that with no lack of enthusiasm.
It would be really nice if she would stop pushing herself on all of us.
I personally would not call Dr S warm or fuzzy, unless you are referring to his facial hair! He is not robotic either. He is very straightforward and sometimes stearn. This is my personal experience with him. I hated him when I first met him!
Also,
It would appear from your posts on this forum and the revision forum that you really only respond to schlesinger posts. Just an observation.
StacysMom
on 12/9/09 2:01 pm, edited 12/9/09 2:02 pm
on 12/9/09 2:01 pm, edited 12/9/09 2:02 pm
Let me make this clear AGAIN! I do not live in AZ. I have no business on your forum! The ONLY reason I have come here is because I found out about Schlesinger on the REVISIONS forum (because Joyce et all were posting ad nauseum about him on there in 2008!) and because I have info for people who are considering using him as their surgeon.
I acquired most of this on my own, reading forums and googling and putting two-and-two together using common sense. I've noticed that many prospective patients have not read as extensively as I have and this info may be useful for them.
I can testify that I believe ALL of my posts on the AZ forum are to give info about Schlesinger. However, if you do YOUR research on the Revisions and the DS forum, you will find that I post there frequently, and not just about Schlesinger. I've also posted on the main board and a few others I don't remember. Unfortunately you have to check every board individually for someone's posts there.
In fact, I once checked out a doctor at the Cleveland Clinic for someone and found out that he did NOT do the DS, as his office had told the patient. What she was saying on the board didn't make sense. She was all excited about her upcoming appointment and getting the DS surgery, only to find out that she had been misled. She was going to be a "bait & switch" (and I prevented her from making the mistake of letting some MD dictate what surgery she should have!) - that's how desperate for patients these surgeons are! Go through my old posts and you on the DS forum and you will find it. No one ever mentioned this doctor again, so I didn't have to cite this information that I had. If the Schlesinger cheerleaders would STFU, so would I.
If you click on the "latest posts" icon under my name under ANY post I have made on the DS or revisions forums, you will be taken to EVERY POST I HAVE EVER MADE ON THAT FORUM or any forum. You will see that the ONLY time I bring up Schlesinger is when his cheerleaders try to get everyone all "hopped up" on him.
I think someone's choice of doctor is THEIR business alone, but they should have access to accurate, verifiable information - not only what the doctor's "office advocates" are putting forth.
And, BTW, I believed everything I read when I first came onto the boards. I was all ready to send a friend to this doctor in AZ who "walked on water". LOL
I acquired most of this on my own, reading forums and googling and putting two-and-two together using common sense. I've noticed that many prospective patients have not read as extensively as I have and this info may be useful for them.
I can testify that I believe ALL of my posts on the AZ forum are to give info about Schlesinger. However, if you do YOUR research on the Revisions and the DS forum, you will find that I post there frequently, and not just about Schlesinger. I've also posted on the main board and a few others I don't remember. Unfortunately you have to check every board individually for someone's posts there.
In fact, I once checked out a doctor at the Cleveland Clinic for someone and found out that he did NOT do the DS, as his office had told the patient. What she was saying on the board didn't make sense. She was all excited about her upcoming appointment and getting the DS surgery, only to find out that she had been misled. She was going to be a "bait & switch" (and I prevented her from making the mistake of letting some MD dictate what surgery she should have!) - that's how desperate for patients these surgeons are! Go through my old posts and you on the DS forum and you will find it. No one ever mentioned this doctor again, so I didn't have to cite this information that I had. If the Schlesinger cheerleaders would STFU, so would I.
If you click on the "latest posts" icon under my name under ANY post I have made on the DS or revisions forums, you will be taken to EVERY POST I HAVE EVER MADE ON THAT FORUM or any forum. You will see that the ONLY time I bring up Schlesinger is when his cheerleaders try to get everyone all "hopped up" on him.
I think someone's choice of doctor is THEIR business alone, but they should have access to accurate, verifiable information - not only what the doctor's "office advocates" are putting forth.
And, BTW, I believed everything I read when I first came onto the boards. I was all ready to send a friend to this doctor in AZ who "walked on water". LOL
On December 9, 2009 at 7:10 PM Pacific Time, roseyredgal wrote:
On December 9, 2009 at 4:33 PM Pacific Time, StacysMom wrote:
Absolutely right. I joined in September of 2008 solely so that I could put up posts. But, I have been reading since Fall of 2006 when a friend of mine who doesn't own a computer asked me to check OH out for him. Not the AZ board, though. I only came on here recently because of Joyce's blatant promotion activities of Schlesinger in 2008 on the Revisions board, so I followed her over to the AZ board. I was curious as to what was going on with her home board. And, I only post to clear up untruths and state facts. Nothing else in AZ is any of my business.Interesting how, when you folks can't attack what I am saying, you all attack ME! Gee - gosh darn! Could it be because everything I am saying is the truth and verifiable on public websites???
In 2008, I began reading about this Schlesinger guy on the Revisions board and thought some of these women were crazy to travel across the country to get the ERNY, when any experienced bariatric surgeon in their own areas could do the same surgery. But, it was NONE of my business, so I never posted, just read.
What was going on then was complete craziness. A "frenzy" was whipped up on the boards by various cheerleaders and office advocates and none of it made sense. He was promoted as being all "warm & fuzzy", the most caring doctor you'd ever want to meet - and then when I read his reviews, they almost ALL said that he was "wooden & robotic". I smelled something "fishy".
It was like seeing people jump on a bandwagon. I watched it happen from start to finish.
BTW, I don't badmouth anyone. I merely expose lies and untruths. If you view stating the truth as badmouthing, that's your prerogative. I only JOINED this thing because I was sick of seeing the blatant manipulation of those who were apparently not capable of doing their own research. Someone had to expose what was going on - and MidwesternGirl was the only one doing it and she was getting beaten up on these boards. I double checked everything she said and it turned out to be true. I guess I have a soft spot for the "underdog".
No doubt the rest of you are all buddies of Joyce's from all of those support groups she frequents constantly to promote whomever she is working for at the time. She is commendable!! I've never seen ANYONE go from job to job so often like that with no lack of enthusiasm.
It would be really nice if she would stop pushing herself on all of us.
I personally would not call Dr S warm or fuzzy, unless you are referring to his facial hair! He is not robotic either. He is very straightforward and sometimes stearn. This is my personal experience with him. I hated him when I first met him!
Also,
It would appear from your posts on this forum and the revision forum that you really only respond to schlesinger posts. Just an observation.
~~ I wish she would not attend the DS group anymore.~~
She doesn't have DS, why is she invading your group?
~~She is marketing herself! She is trying to drum up business. The only reason she attends so many support groups is to get business for her employer.~~
This is exactly why I suggested she buy an ad on OH. She used to push Gitt and now she runs around slamming Gitt inferring he has alllll these infections so people will go to her current employer.
You have only been here in 2009. You should have seen her when she was really bad in 2007/8.
"She used to push Gitt and now she runs around slamming Gitt inferring he has alllll these infections so people will go to her current employer."
I do not run around slamming anyone.
Risk of infection? .....It is in several publications, taught in P.S. conferences/school, and in thread after thread on the P.S. forum that the # 1 danger for big plastic surgeries with the Post Bariatric community is the risk of infection. Some WLS procedures can cause protein deficiency which as you know in the medical field can = poor healing. Body lifts, tummy tucks combined with other procedures...are BIG days in the O.R. with a lot of surface to heal! Finding a surgeon who takes extra safety precautions, has a near flawless record and has happy post-ops should be desired by all of us.. Like you, one can go to public records.
I do not run around slamming anyone.
Risk of infection? .....It is in several publications, taught in P.S. conferences/school, and in thread after thread on the P.S. forum that the # 1 danger for big plastic surgeries with the Post Bariatric community is the risk of infection. Some WLS procedures can cause protein deficiency which as you know in the medical field can = poor healing. Body lifts, tummy tucks combined with other procedures...are BIG days in the O.R. with a lot of surface to heal! Finding a surgeon who takes extra safety precautions, has a near flawless record and has happy post-ops should be desired by all of us.. Like you, one can go to public records.
Joyce Rny 2/11/03-> ERny 12/26/07-> Duodenal Switch 5/12/2010
www.dsfacts.com , www.dssurgery.com , & www.duodenalswitch.com
On December 10, 2009 at 9:25 AM Pacific Time, JRinAZ wrote:
"She used to push Gitt and now she runs around slamming Gitt inferring he has alllll these infections so people will go to her current employer."I do not run around slamming anyone.
Risk of infection? .....It is in several publications, taught in P.S. conferences/school, and in thread after thread on the P.S. forum that the # 1 danger for big plastic surgeries with the Post Bariatric community is the risk of infection. Some WLS procedures can cause protein deficiency which as you know in the medical field can = poor healing. Body lifts, tummy tucks combined with other procedures...are BIG days in the O.R. with a lot of surface to heal! Finding a surgeon who takes extra safety precautions, has a near flawless record and has happy post-ops should be desired by all of us.. Like you, one can go to public records.
Yeah, you do. Don't make me go get the post in question and embarrass you. You were trying to talk someone into having your boss of the year do two procedures because he's a general surgeon. He could do some abdominal procedure and a tummy tuck at the same time. A two for one kinda thing and then you went on to say that he doesn't have complications unlike all the infections from your last employer.
I don't post much that I can't back up and defend. ;o)
"I wanted to make it very clear, I am not a buddy of Joyce. matter of fact I can not stand her. She is pushy and overbearing! She pushes all the docs in town. (No, I push the docs I think are good or suspect are good because of their patient reviews or because of my direct personal experience with them. I am one of many who shares information and I've done that for 8 years on O.H.; even when my only job description was "Mom" and music teacher...... I definitely leave many names off of lists for a reason.) And that is a problem becauseShe is marketing herself! Marketing myself? Because I am selling a book? Because I need 100 additional emails in my pm box of people who just want some support or help? Because I hope for the next Nobel Peace Prize? Because I get brownnie points with my family when I spend extra hours with my WLS buds? Oh sure!I And I need to shop for my gown for the next Miss America pageant too! She is trying to drum up business. Guilty! My work description includes marketing! And, that is not "news". Everyone I know, knows what I do and who I work for. If I still worked in music then I'd still be guilty of trying to "drum up business".... It's a job description that many are gainfully employed in. All successful companies have marketing departments. The only reason she attends so many support groups is to get business for her employer. I have attended support groups long before I ever worked in the Bariatric or Plastic Surgery world. I started several groups: WLSST, AZ Grads, the Chandler group, and the HM group and currently am working on a "Back on Track" group. I've put miles on my car for years meeting up with peeps all over AZ. My addiction to support groups and my friends was thriving long before I made the transition from music to surgeons. In fact, I met my first surgeon AT an OH event/support group in California. She posts that she is having plastic surgery herself only to post again a few days later that her labs are bad and she can not have surgery. Yup! That stinks! Like Lizzie, I have some issues. Imagine working for an amazing plastic surgeon and having the opportunity to look as great as his post-ops and not being able to because of LABS!!! My pcp AND p.s. boss want me healthy before I have a big surgery. It's a bummer but I'm grateful they are protecting me from the possibilities! There are several of us Schlesinger patients that have complained about her. So sorry...the office never did pass that information on. They just "seemed" happy to have me help them out I wish she would not attend the DS group anymore. It is NOT a DS group. It is a HM group which is how I post it all the time (named by Jen). HM includes ERny, Distal and DS as it stands for Highly Malabsorptive. I'm sorry you don't want me to attend . I approached the Dr. S group and offered to start it. I attended a lot of groups in the valley (as is always pointed out) but none of them addressed the needs of the ERny specifically. Other pts expressed the same desire for something for them. So, I attended the group because I started the group! It was not part of their COE but was simply meant as a peer facilitated option for those interested. Tempe St Luke's didn't even promote the group. I did. I asked another HM girl to start a yahoo site so the group would have a place to share information. Dr. Schlesinger's staff kindly found us a room and made sure it was unlocked. Period. Dr. S came to the group when he could. I'm sure in light of all "this" that the group will now be part of their program. I noticed she took Schlesinger off her profile and she is not pushing him. I don't like drama anymore than the next gal. I do not want to be the reason that some good man is brought down. I truly believe that Dr. Schlesinger is a good surgeon, a kind and caring person and is thorough to the best of his knowledge. I got tired of fighting the DS battle for them. I think the DS is a fab surgery and have often said that I wish I could have had that at the very beginning. Since there is one surgeon in AZ that does the DS then I will continue to suggest Dr. S, when asked. Whether or not I would have another ERny if given the chance? Hmmmm.....still deciding on some days. Most days I love my life and some days I feel awful (low anemia) and call upon some experts on support sites that have "been there done that and recovered".....trolls looking for dirt on me grab those little pieces of my life and post them out of context. First and foremost, I am a WLS post-op and this venue is for me as well as all of you. I challenge anyone to prove they feel perfect and "up" every day and with every post!
I guess It would be really nice if she would stop pushing herself on all of us." None of us are loved or even tolerated by all. Those who haven't liked me in the past haven't found it to be a problem to skip over my posts, delete them, ignore me at groups, etc. I'm sorry that I have upset your world so much. I promise that I do not wake up each morning wondering who I can irritate for that day.
I will continue to pay it forward for those who want my "opinion". I will continue to attend support groups because I need them to stay on track. I will continue to promote my boss and any other great surgeon that someone else may benefit from hearing about. I will continue being an advocate for better treatment and education for the morbidly obese.
I have worked in this industry because it's fun to hang with my demographic of people and I feel that I can make a bit of a difference in someone's life. As for my changes of programs/employment; that is not unusual in this field. I spoke with a Bariatric employee of a program yesterday who had been at 3 other programs. Jen started out with DeBarros/Orris, went to AZWLS and now is at Tempe St Luke's. It happens in EVERY industry. People imply there was dark drama involved. I simply moved on from one place because they needed someone fulltime and I was still teaching music lesson and couldn' t do full time. No dark secrets. I'm working where I'm working now because I did my research and wanted to be able to "sell" a really great product!
If this entire bunch of "stuff" has any use at all....it is in fact that people are responsible for their choices and their research BUT.....I understand the "trust factor" and will "suggest" Bariatric and Plastic surgeon's carefully. I do not EVER promote negative about any surgeon. Some may read into that themselves when I simply list another surgeon's strengths. That is their option. I point out those traits of someone that others have noted or that I personally have noted. Comparisons may be the result but that is left to the individual and should be their responsibility. Public records are indeed a good tool to consider. I wish I would have done more research long long ago in 2002.
AS for promoting anyone on OH. That's what makes their business successful. They are all for it and permission has been given many times. Testimonials are forms of promotion. Answering a "what do you think about Dr._____?" is a promotion if you answer.
As I attend the various support groups, the one thing that is sadly clear is that there are zillions of lurkers on this site and so many are afraid to post. I have been referred to as always giving "Pollyanna answers". In reference to an earlier poster......something about sugar and vinegar? There are a lot of ways to make a point and a lot of ways to support people. I've just never felt like the strong arm cynnical approach ever brought return visitors or created a supportive and educational environment.
With these posts...I'd hope everyone would ask themselves the unasked questions of "Who are these people and why would they/she go to such lengths to discredit a surgeon or someone in the Bariatric field? Could they possibly be competitors? The economy with loss of funds, insurance, jobs, etc was noted in this thread. Does that make it worth someone's efforts to bring someone down? Who would gain from it really? Without pictures or true identities, can they be seriously considered? If those are indeed public records then what's the rest of the story? How would they know all of that and what kind of life do they really live if they do research based on malicious intent? Are we really to believe that they care so deeply for a population of people that they would invest this amount of time and energy into an attack such as this? Why is one of them even on OH when with all of their postings they never mention having had WLS themselves? They were challenged by that question on the Revision forum months ago and they quietly disappeared for a time. ...... Maybe we should all consider the source. And... if in your consideration you truly believe that I have malicious intent then you should consider that as well.
Sorry for the long long post! ...... I don't expect anything different with rebuttles but some inuendo should be addressed. Now i'm shifting gears and going to post something positive (you can skip over that one, right?!)
I guess It would be really nice if she would stop pushing herself on all of us." None of us are loved or even tolerated by all. Those who haven't liked me in the past haven't found it to be a problem to skip over my posts, delete them, ignore me at groups, etc. I'm sorry that I have upset your world so much. I promise that I do not wake up each morning wondering who I can irritate for that day.
I will continue to pay it forward for those who want my "opinion". I will continue to attend support groups because I need them to stay on track. I will continue to promote my boss and any other great surgeon that someone else may benefit from hearing about. I will continue being an advocate for better treatment and education for the morbidly obese.
I have worked in this industry because it's fun to hang with my demographic of people and I feel that I can make a bit of a difference in someone's life. As for my changes of programs/employment; that is not unusual in this field. I spoke with a Bariatric employee of a program yesterday who had been at 3 other programs. Jen started out with DeBarros/Orris, went to AZWLS and now is at Tempe St Luke's. It happens in EVERY industry. People imply there was dark drama involved. I simply moved on from one place because they needed someone fulltime and I was still teaching music lesson and couldn' t do full time. No dark secrets. I'm working where I'm working now because I did my research and wanted to be able to "sell" a really great product!
If this entire bunch of "stuff" has any use at all....it is in fact that people are responsible for their choices and their research BUT.....I understand the "trust factor" and will "suggest" Bariatric and Plastic surgeon's carefully. I do not EVER promote negative about any surgeon. Some may read into that themselves when I simply list another surgeon's strengths. That is their option. I point out those traits of someone that others have noted or that I personally have noted. Comparisons may be the result but that is left to the individual and should be their responsibility. Public records are indeed a good tool to consider. I wish I would have done more research long long ago in 2002.
AS for promoting anyone on OH. That's what makes their business successful. They are all for it and permission has been given many times. Testimonials are forms of promotion. Answering a "what do you think about Dr._____?" is a promotion if you answer.
As I attend the various support groups, the one thing that is sadly clear is that there are zillions of lurkers on this site and so many are afraid to post. I have been referred to as always giving "Pollyanna answers". In reference to an earlier poster......something about sugar and vinegar? There are a lot of ways to make a point and a lot of ways to support people. I've just never felt like the strong arm cynnical approach ever brought return visitors or created a supportive and educational environment.
With these posts...I'd hope everyone would ask themselves the unasked questions of "Who are these people and why would they/she go to such lengths to discredit a surgeon or someone in the Bariatric field? Could they possibly be competitors? The economy with loss of funds, insurance, jobs, etc was noted in this thread. Does that make it worth someone's efforts to bring someone down? Who would gain from it really? Without pictures or true identities, can they be seriously considered? If those are indeed public records then what's the rest of the story? How would they know all of that and what kind of life do they really live if they do research based on malicious intent? Are we really to believe that they care so deeply for a population of people that they would invest this amount of time and energy into an attack such as this? Why is one of them even on OH when with all of their postings they never mention having had WLS themselves? They were challenged by that question on the Revision forum months ago and they quietly disappeared for a time. ...... Maybe we should all consider the source. And... if in your consideration you truly believe that I have malicious intent then you should consider that as well.
Sorry for the long long post! ...... I don't expect anything different with rebuttles but some inuendo should be addressed. Now i'm shifting gears and going to post something positive (you can skip over that one, right?!)
Joyce Rny 2/11/03-> ERny 12/26/07-> Duodenal Switch 5/12/2010
www.dsfacts.com , www.dssurgery.com , & www.duodenalswitch.com
On December 10, 2009 at 8:54 AM Pacific Time, JRinAZ wrote:
"I wanted to make it very clear, I am not a buddy of Joyce. matter of fact I can not stand her. She is pushy and overbearing! She pushes all the docs in town. (No, I push the docs I think are good or suspect are good because of their patient reviews or because of my direct personal experience with them. I am one of many who shares information and I've done that for 8 years on O.H.; even when my only job description was "Mom" and music teacher...... I definitely leave many names off of lists for a reason.) And that is a problem becauseShe is marketing herself! Marketing myself? Because I am selling a book? Because I need 100 additional emails in my pm box of people who just want some support or help? Because I hope for the next Nobel Peace Prize? Because I get brownnie points with my family when I spend extra hours with my WLS buds? Oh sure!I And I need to shop for my gown for the next Miss America pageant too! She is trying to drum up business. Guilty! My work description includes marketing! And, that is not "news". Everyone I know, knows what I do and who I work for. If I still worked in music then I'd still be guilty of trying to "drum up business".... It's a job description that many are gainfully employed in. All successful companies have marketing departments. The only reason she attends so many support groups is to get business for her employer. I have attended support groups long before I ever worked in the Bariatric or Plastic Surgery world. I started several groups: WLSST, AZ Grads, the Chandler group, and the HM group and currently am working on a "Back on Track" group. I've put miles on my car for years meeting up with peeps all over AZ. My addiction to support groups and my friends was thriving long before I made the transition from music to surgeons. In fact, I met my first surgeon AT an OH event/support group in California. She posts that she is having plastic surgery herself only to post again a few days later that her labs are bad and she can not have surgery. Yup! That stinks! Like Lizzie, I have some issues. Imagine working for an amazing plastic surgeon and having the opportunity to look as great as his post-ops and not being able to because of LABS!!! My pcp AND p.s. boss want me healthy before I have a big surgery. It's a bummer but I'm grateful they are protecting me from the possibilities! There are several of us Schlesinger patients that have complained about her. So sorry...the office never did pass that information on. They just "seemed" happy to have me help them out I wish she would not attend the DS group anymore. It is NOT a DS group. It is a HM group which is how I post it all the time (named by Jen). HM includes ERny, Distal and DS as it stands for Highly Malabsorptive. I'm sorry you don't want me to attend . I approached the Dr. S group and offered to start it. I attended a lot of groups in the valley (as is always pointed out) but none of them addressed the needs of the ERny specifically. Other pts expressed the same desire for something for them. So, I attended the group because I started the group! It was not part of their COE but was simply meant as a peer facilitated option for those interested. Tempe St Luke's didn't even promote the group. I did. I asked another HM girl to start a yahoo site so the group would have a place to share information. Dr. Schlesinger's staff kindly found us a room and made sure it was unlocked. Period. Dr. S came to the group when he could. I'm sure in light of all "this" that the group will now be part of their program. I noticed she took Schlesinger off her profile and she is not pushing him. I don't like drama anymore than the next gal. I do not want to be the reason that some good man is brought down. I truly believe that Dr. Schlesinger is a good surgeon, a kind and caring person and is thorough to the best of his knowledge. I got tired of fighting the DS battle for them. I think the DS is a fab surgery and have often said that I wish I could have had that at the very beginning. Since there is one surgeon in AZ that does the DS then I will continue to suggest Dr. S, when asked. Whether or not I would have another ERny if given the chance? Hmmmm.....still deciding on some days. Most days I love my life and some days I feel awful (low anemia) and call upon some experts on support sites that have "been there done that and recovered".....trolls looking for dirt on me grab those little pieces of my life and post them out of context. First and foremost, I am a WLS post-op and this venue is for me as well as all of you. I challenge anyone to prove they feel perfect and "up" every day and with every post!I guess It would be really nice if she would stop pushing herself on all of us." None of us are loved or even tolerated by all. Those who haven't liked me in the past haven't found it to be a problem to skip over my posts, delete them, ignore me at groups, etc. I'm sorry that I have upset your world so much. I promise that I do not wake up each morning wondering who I can irritate for that day.
I will continue to pay it forward for those who want my "opinion". I will continue to attend support groups because I need them to stay on track. I will continue to promote my boss and any other great surgeon that someone else may benefit from hearing about. I will continue being an advocate for better treatment and education for the morbidly obese.
I have worked in this industry because it's fun to hang with my demographic of people and I feel that I can make a bit of a difference in someone's life. As for my changes of programs/employment; that is not unusual in this field. I spoke with a Bariatric employee of a program yesterday who had been at 3 other programs. Jen started out with DeBarros/Orris, went to AZWLS and now is at Tempe St Luke's. It happens in EVERY industry. People imply there was dark drama involved. I simply moved on from one place because they needed someone fulltime and I was still teaching music lesson and couldn' t do full time. No dark secrets. I'm working where I'm working now because I did my research and wanted to be able to "sell" a really great product!
If this entire bunch of "stuff" has any use at all....it is in fact that people are responsible for their choices and their research BUT.....I understand the "trust factor" and will "suggest" Bariatric and Plastic surgeon's carefully. I do not EVER promote negative about any surgeon. Some may read into that themselves when I simply list another surgeon's strengths. That is their option. I point out those traits of someone that others have noted or that I personally have noted. Comparisons may be the result but that is left to the individual and should be their responsibility. Public records are indeed a good tool to consider. I wish I would have done more research long long ago in 2002.
AS for promoting anyone on OH. That's what makes their business successful. They are all for it and permission has been given many times. Testimonials are forms of promotion. Answering a "what do you think about Dr._____?" is a promotion if you answer.
As I attend the various support groups, the one thing that is sadly clear is that there are zillions of lurkers on this site and so many are afraid to post. I have been referred to as always giving "Pollyanna answers". In reference to an earlier poster......something about sugar and vinegar? There are a lot of ways to make a point and a lot of ways to support people. I've just never felt like the strong arm cynnical approach ever brought return visitors or created a supportive and educational environment.
With these posts...I'd hope everyone would ask themselves the unasked questions of "Who are these people and why would they/she go to such lengths to discredit a surgeon or someone in the Bariatric field? Could they possibly be competitors? The economy with loss of funds, insurance, jobs, etc was noted in this thread. Does that make it worth someone's efforts to bring someone down? Who would gain from it really? Without pictures or true identities, can they be seriously considered? If those are indeed public records then what's the rest of the story? How would they know all of that and what kind of life do they really live if they do research based on malicious intent? Are we really to believe that they care so deeply for a population of people that they would invest this amount of time and energy into an attack such as this? Why is one of them even on OH when with all of their postings they never mention having had WLS themselves? They were challenged by that question on the Revision forum months ago and they quietly disappeared for a time. ...... Maybe we should all consider the source. And... if in your consideration you truly believe that I have malicious intent then you should consider that as well.
Sorry for the long long post! ...... I don't expect anything different with rebuttles but some inuendo should be addressed. Now i'm shifting gears and going to post something positive (you can skip over that one, right?!)
~~(No, I push the docs I think are good or suspect are good because of their patient reviews or because of my direct personal experience with them~~
Schlesinger... remember when he started working for Gitt? You pushed him to the point of people complaining and asking you to shut up about it. You have an agenda and anyone with half a brain can see it.
~~Because I need 100 additional emails in my pm box of people who just want some support or help? ~~
And the "victim role" just as I pointed out yesterday.
~~ Guilty! My work description includes marketing! And, that is not "news". Everyone I know, knows what I do and who I work for. If I still worked in music then I'd still be guilty of trying to "drum up business".... It's a job description that many are gainfully employed in. All successful companies have marketing departments.~~
I don't give a rats back side what is in your job description. SUPPORT boards and SUPPORT groups should be free of some idiot trying to sell us something. It should be for SUPPORT! This is the concept that you just can't get through your friggen head.
~~My addiction to support groups and my friends was thriving long before I made the transition from music to surgeons.~~
Your addiction? Oh please, too late - you already outted yourself. You call it marketing. I call it unethical.
~~So sorry...the office never did pass that information on. They just "seemed" happy to have me help them out~~
What in the world makes you think DSers want you at their support meetings? Seriously, think about it. *I* know why you do it, more "marketing" and another group of people to target.
You know, I think you have pushed yourself onto people and in their groups so hard that I really do not think you have the slightest idea how this is making your boss appear. It makes it appear he's so hard up for business that he his to inflict you upon every SUPPORT group in real time and on line so you can drum up business for him. Is his rep so bad he has to resort to having you behave this way?
~~I'm working where I'm working now because I did my research and wanted to be able to "sell" a really great product!~~
See above.
~~I do not EVER promote negative about any surgeon.~~
Liar. I just gave you an example in another post. I will post the whole damn thing if you want. Then you also downed my own surgeon in a PM telling me the horrors of a Mexican surgeon but you just happened to work for a wonderful band surgeon, Simpson and I should go to him. Remember that, Joyce?
~~How would they know all of that and what kind of life do they really live if they do research based on malicious intent? Are we really to believe that they care so deeply for a population of people that they would invest this amount of time and energy into an attack such as this? Why is one of them even on OH when with all of their postings they never mention having had WLS themselves? They were challenged by that question on the Revision forum months ago and they quietly disappeared for a time. ...... Maybe we should all consider the source. And... if in your consideration you truly believe that I have malicious intent then you should consider that as well.~~
And the manipulation. Did I not just write yesterday (maybe two days ago) what your style is? Play the victim (done). Manipulation (done). Get your old cronies to go to bat for you (done).
Dangitall I'm good!
People are catching on, Joyce. It's not about support. It is all about marketing. You should be ashamed of yourself. Anything for the almighty dollar, right? Remember the "support" you gave me when I was a newbie and didn't know better? I learned my lesson in a hurry not to trust you with anything personal. You burned me pretty darn good, didn't you? That will never happen again.
You are in for a treat today. Well, I hope it will be today. I received a PM from someone yesterday wanting my phone number. After hearing the whole story and quite a list of telephone conversations she had yesterday she's going to post the results of what she has discovered.
On December 10, 2009 at 10:02 AM Pacific Time, MidwesternGirl wrote:
On December 10, 2009 at 8:54 AM Pacific Time, JRinAZ wrote:
"I wanted to make it very clear, I am not a buddy of Joyce. matter of fact I can not stand her. She is pushy and overbearing! She pushes all the docs in town. (No, I push the docs I think are good or suspect are good because of their patient reviews or because of my direct personal experience with them. I am one of many who shares information and I've done that for 8 years on O.H.; even when my only job description was "Mom" and music teacher...... I definitely leave many names off of lists for a reason.) And that is a problem becauseShe is marketing herself! Marketing myself? Because I am selling a book? Because I need 100 additional emails in my pm box of people who just want some support or help? Because I hope for the next Nobel Peace Prize? Because I get brownnie points with my family when I spend extra hours with my WLS buds? Oh sure!I And I need to shop for my gown for the next Miss America pageant too! She is trying to drum up business. Guilty! My work description includes marketing! And, that is not "news". Everyone I know, knows what I do and who I work for. If I still worked in music then I'd still be guilty of trying to "drum up business".... It's a job description that many are gainfully employed in. All successful companies have marketing departments. The only reason she attends so many support groups is to get business for her employer. I have attended support groups long before I ever worked in the Bariatric or Plastic Surgery world. I started several groups: WLSST, AZ Grads, the Chandler group, and the HM group and currently am working on a "Back on Track" group. I've put miles on my car for years meeting up with peeps all over AZ. My addiction to support groups and my friends was thriving long before I made the transition from music to surgeons. In fact, I met my first surgeon AT an OH event/support group in California. She posts that she is having plastic surgery herself only to post again a few days later that her labs are bad and she can not have surgery. Yup! That stinks! Like Lizzie, I have some issues. Imagine working for an amazing plastic surgeon and having the opportunity to look as great as his post-ops and not being able to because of LABS!!! My pcp AND p.s. boss want me healthy before I have a big surgery. It's a bummer but I'm grateful they are protecting me from the possibilities! There are several of us Schlesinger patients that have complained about her. So sorry...the office never did pass that information on. They just "seemed" happy to have me help them out I wish she would not attend the DS group anymore. It is NOT a DS group. It is a HM group which is how I post it all the time (named by Jen). HM includes ERny, Distal and DS as it stands for Highly Malabsorptive. I'm sorry you don't want me to attend . I approached the Dr. S group and offered to start it. I attended a lot of groups in the valley (as is always pointed out) but none of them addressed the needs of the ERny specifically. Other pts expressed the same desire for something for them. So, I attended the group because I started the group! It was not part of their COE but was simply meant as a peer facilitated option for those interested. Tempe St Luke's didn't even promote the group. I did. I asked another HM girl to start a yahoo site so the group would have a place to share information. Dr. Schlesinger's staff kindly found us a room and made sure it was unlocked. Period. Dr. S came to the group when he could. I'm sure in light of all "this" that the group will now be part of their program. I noticed she took Schlesinger off her profile and she is not pushing him. I don't like drama anymore than the next gal. I do not want to be the reason that some good man is brought down. I truly believe that Dr. Schlesinger is a good surgeon, a kind and caring person and is thorough to the best of his knowledge. I got tired of fighting the DS battle for them. I think the DS is a fab surgery and have often said that I wish I could have had that at the very beginning. Since there is one surgeon in AZ that does the DS then I will continue to suggest Dr. S, when asked. Whether or not I would have another ERny if given the chance? Hmmmm.....still deciding on some days. Most days I love my life and some days I feel awful (low anemia) and call upon some experts on support sites that have "been there done that and recovered".....trolls looking for dirt on me grab those little pieces of my life and post them out of context. First and foremost, I am a WLS post-op and this venue is for me as well as all of you. I challenge anyone to prove they feel perfect and "up" every day and with every post!I guess It would be really nice if she would stop pushing herself on all of us." None of us are loved or even tolerated by all. Those who haven't liked me in the past haven't found it to be a problem to skip over my posts, delete them, ignore me at groups, etc. I'm sorry that I have upset your world so much. I promise that I do not wake up each morning wondering who I can irritate for that day.
I will continue to pay it forward for those who want my "opinion". I will continue to attend support groups because I need them to stay on track. I will continue to promote my boss and any other great surgeon that someone else may benefit from hearing about. I will continue being an advocate for better treatment and education for the morbidly obese.
I have worked in this industry because it's fun to hang with my demographic of people and I feel that I can make a bit of a difference in someone's life. As for my changes of programs/employment; that is not unusual in this field. I spoke with a Bariatric employee of a program yesterday who had been at 3 other programs. Jen started out with DeBarros/Orris, went to AZWLS and now is at Tempe St Luke's. It happens in EVERY industry. People imply there was dark drama involved. I simply moved on from one place because they needed someone fulltime and I was still teaching music lesson and couldn' t do full time. No dark secrets. I'm working where I'm working now because I did my research and wanted to be able to "sell" a really great product!
If this entire bunch of "stuff" has any use at all....it is in fact that people are responsible for their choices and their research BUT.....I understand the "trust factor" and will "suggest" Bariatric and Plastic surgeon's carefully. I do not EVER promote negative about any surgeon. Some may read into that themselves when I simply list another surgeon's strengths. That is their option. I point out those traits of someone that others have noted or that I personally have noted. Comparisons may be the result but that is left to the individual and should be their responsibility. Public records are indeed a good tool to consider. I wish I would have done more research long long ago in 2002.
AS for promoting anyone on OH. That's what makes their business successful. They are all for it and permission has been given many times. Testimonials are forms of promotion. Answering a "what do you think about Dr._____?" is a promotion if you answer.
As I attend the various support groups, the one thing that is sadly clear is that there are zillions of lurkers on this site and so many are afraid to post. I have been referred to as always giving "Pollyanna answers". In reference to an earlier poster......something about sugar and vinegar? There are a lot of ways to make a point and a lot of ways to support people. I've just never felt like the strong arm cynnical approach ever brought return visitors or created a supportive and educational environment.
With these posts...I'd hope everyone would ask themselves the unasked questions of "Who are these people and why would they/she go to such lengths to discredit a surgeon or someone in the Bariatric field? Could they possibly be competitors? The economy with loss of funds, insurance, jobs, etc was noted in this thread. Does that make it worth someone's efforts to bring someone down? Who would gain from it really? Without pictures or true identities, can they be seriously considered? If those are indeed public records then what's the rest of the story? How would they know all of that and what kind of life do they really live if they do research based on malicious intent? Are we really to believe that they care so deeply for a population of people that they would invest this amount of time and energy into an attack such as this? Why is one of them even on OH when with all of their postings they never mention having had WLS themselves? They were challenged by that question on the Revision forum months ago and they quietly disappeared for a time. ...... Maybe we should all consider the source. And... if in your consideration you truly believe that I have malicious intent then you should consider that as well.
Sorry for the long long post! ...... I don't expect anything different with rebuttles but some inuendo should be addressed. Now i'm shifting gears and going to post something positive (you can skip over that one, right?!)
~~(No, I push the docs I think are good or suspect are good because of their patient reviews or because of my direct personal experience with them~~
Schlesinger... remember when he started working for Gitt? You pushed him to the point of people complaining and asking you to shut up about it. You have an agenda and anyone with half a brain can see it.
~~Because I need 100 additional emails in my pm box of people who just want some support or help? ~~
And the "victim role" just as I pointed out yesterday.
~~ Guilty! My work description includes marketing! And, that is not "news". Everyone I know, knows what I do and who I work for. If I still worked in music then I'd still be guilty of trying to "drum up business".... It's a job description that many are gainfully employed in. All successful companies have marketing departments.~~
I don't give a rats back side what is in your job description. SUPPORT boards and SUPPORT groups should be free of some idiot trying to sell us something. It should be for SUPPORT! This is the concept that you just can't get through your friggen head.
~~My addiction to support groups and my friends was thriving long before I made the transition from music to surgeons.~~
Your addiction? Oh please, too late - you already outted yourself. You call it marketing. I call it unethical.
~~So sorry...the office never did pass that information on. They just "seemed" happy to have me help them out~~
What in the world makes you think DSers want you at their support meetings? Seriously, think about it. *I* know why you do it, more "marketing" and another group of people to target.
You know, I think you have pushed yourself onto people and in their groups so hard that I really do not think you have the slightest idea how this is making your boss appear. It makes it appear he's so hard up for business that he his to inflict you upon every SUPPORT group in real time and on line so you can drum up business for him. Is his rep so bad he has to resort to having you behave this way?
~~I'm working where I'm working now because I did my research and wanted to be able to "sell" a really great product!~~
See above.
~~I do not EVER promote negative about any surgeon.~~
Liar. I just gave you an example in another post. I will post the whole damn thing if you want. Then you also downed my own surgeon in a PM telling me the horrors of a Mexican surgeon but you just happened to work for a wonderful band surgeon, Simpson and I should go to him. Remember that, Joyce?
~~How would they know all of that and what kind of life do they really live if they do research based on malicious intent? Are we really to believe that they care so deeply for a population of people that they would invest this amount of time and energy into an attack such as this? Why is one of them even on OH when with all of their postings they never mention having had WLS themselves? They were challenged by that question on the Revision forum months ago and they quietly disappeared for a time. ...... Maybe we should all consider the source. And... if in your consideration you truly believe that I have malicious intent then you should consider that as well.~~
And the manipulation. Did I not just write yesterday (maybe two days ago) what your style is? Play the victim (done). Manipulation (done). Get your old cronies to go to bat for you (done).
Dangitall I'm good!
People are catching on, Joyce. It's not about support. It is all about marketing. You should be ashamed of yourself. Anything for the almighty dollar, right? Remember the "support" you gave me when I was a newbie and didn't know better? I learned my lesson in a hurry not to trust you with anything personal. You burned me pretty darn good, didn't you? That will never happen again.
You are in for a treat today. Well, I hope it will be today. I received a PM from someone yesterday wanting my phone number. After hearing the whole story and quite a list of telephone conversations she had yesterday she's going to post the results of what she has discovered.
Well MWG, I am starting to like your posts!
People are catching on, Joyce. It's not about support. It is all about marketing. You should be ashamed of yourself. Anything for the almighty dollar, right? Remember the "support" you gave me when I was a newbie and didn't know better? I learned my lesson in a hurry not to trust you with anything personal. You burned me pretty darn good, didn't you? That will never happen again. BAM!! Thats what I am talking about!! She is only in it for herself. She does help a few people along the way but thats only to gain business in the long run!
I still think it sucks that you are bashing Dr S because Joyce is well Joyce.
Did anyone else notice that every other post on the AZ Message board was started by JOYCE! Give us a break PLEASE. Take a few weeks off! We could all use it.
MWG, I think you should be fair and tell the world about every surgeon. The fact that you picked on Schelsinger to badmouth makes you sound spiteful and out for blood.
Help people educate themselves by giving facts and ways to find facts.
I am very much looking forward to the treat for today!!
On December 10, 2009 at 11:42 AM Pacific Time, roseyredgal wrote:
On December 10, 2009 at 10:02 AM Pacific Time, MidwesternGirl wrote:
On December 10, 2009 at 8:54 AM Pacific Time, JRinAZ wrote:
"I wanted to make it very clear, I am not a buddy of Joyce. matter of fact I can not stand her. She is pushy and overbearing! She pushes all the docs in town. (No, I push the docs I think are good or suspect are good because of their patient reviews or because of my direct personal experience with them. I am one of many who shares information and I've done that for 8 years on O.H.; even when my only job description was "Mom" and music teacher...... I definitely leave many names off of lists for a reason.) And that is a problem becauseShe is marketing herself! Marketing myself? Because I am selling a book? Because I need 100 additional emails in my pm box of people who just want some support or help? Because I hope for the next Nobel Peace Prize? Because I get brownnie points with my family when I spend extra hours with my WLS buds? Oh sure!I And I need to shop for my gown for the next Miss America pageant too! She is trying to drum up business. Guilty! My work description includes marketing! And, that is not "news". Everyone I know, knows what I do and who I work for. If I still worked in music then I'd still be guilty of trying to "drum up business".... It's a job description that many are gainfully employed in. All successful companies have marketing departments. The only reason she attends so many support groups is to get business for her employer. I have attended support groups long before I ever worked in the Bariatric or Plastic Surgery world. I started several groups: WLSST, AZ Grads, the Chandler group, and the HM group and currently am working on a "Back on Track" group. I've put miles on my car for years meeting up with peeps all over AZ. My addiction to support groups and my friends was thriving long before I made the transition from music to surgeons. In fact, I met my first surgeon AT an OH event/support group in California. She posts that she is having plastic surgery herself only to post again a few days later that her labs are bad and she can not have surgery. Yup! That stinks! Like Lizzie, I have some issues. Imagine working for an amazing plastic surgeon and having the opportunity to look as great as his post-ops and not being able to because of LABS!!! My pcp AND p.s. boss want me healthy before I have a big surgery. It's a bummer but I'm grateful they are protecting me from the possibilities! There are several of us Schlesinger patients that have complained about her. So sorry...the office never did pass that information on. They just "seemed" happy to have me help them out I wish she would not attend the DS group anymore. It is NOT a DS group. It is a HM group which is how I post it all the time (named by Jen). HM includes ERny, Distal and DS as it stands for Highly Malabsorptive. I'm sorry you don't want me to attend . I approached the Dr. S group and offered to start it. I attended a lot of groups in the valley (as is always pointed out) but none of them addressed the needs of the ERny specifically. Other pts expressed the same desire for something for them. So, I attended the group because I started the group! It was not part of their COE but was simply meant as a peer facilitated option for those interested. Tempe St Luke's didn't even promote the group. I did. I asked another HM girl to start a yahoo site so the group would have a place to share information. Dr. Schlesinger's staff kindly found us a room and made sure it was unlocked. Period. Dr. S came to the group when he could. I'm sure in light of all "this" that the group will now be part of their program. I noticed she took Schlesinger off her profile and she is not pushing him. I don't like drama anymore than the next gal. I do not want to be the reason that some good man is brought down. I truly believe that Dr. Schlesinger is a good surgeon, a kind and caring person and is thorough to the best of his knowledge. I got tired of fighting the DS battle for them. I think the DS is a fab surgery and have often said that I wish I could have had that at the very beginning. Since there is one surgeon in AZ that does the DS then I will continue to suggest Dr. S, when asked. Whether or not I would have another ERny if given the chance? Hmmmm.....still deciding on some days. Most days I love my life and some days I feel awful (low anemia) and call upon some experts on support sites that have "been there done that and recovered".....trolls looking for dirt on me grab those little pieces of my life and post them out of context. First and foremost, I am a WLS post-op and this venue is for me as well as all of you. I challenge anyone to prove they feel perfect and "up" every day and with every post!I guess It would be really nice if she would stop pushing herself on all of us." None of us are loved or even tolerated by all. Those who haven't liked me in the past haven't found it to be a problem to skip over my posts, delete them, ignore me at groups, etc. I'm sorry that I have upset your world so much. I promise that I do not wake up each morning wondering who I can irritate for that day.
I will continue to pay it forward for those who want my "opinion". I will continue to attend support groups because I need them to stay on track. I will continue to promote my boss and any other great surgeon that someone else may benefit from hearing about. I will continue being an advocate for better treatment and education for the morbidly obese.
I have worked in this industry because it's fun to hang with my demographic of people and I feel that I can make a bit of a difference in someone's life. As for my changes of programs/employment; that is not unusual in this field. I spoke with a Bariatric employee of a program yesterday who had been at 3 other programs. Jen started out with DeBarros/Orris, went to AZWLS and now is at Tempe St Luke's. It happens in EVERY industry. People imply there was dark drama involved. I simply moved on from one place because they needed someone fulltime and I was still teaching music lesson and couldn' t do full time. No dark secrets. I'm working where I'm working now because I did my research and wanted to be able to "sell" a really great product!
If this entire bunch of "stuff" has any use at all....it is in fact that people are responsible for their choices and their research BUT.....I understand the "trust factor" and will "suggest" Bariatric and Plastic surgeon's carefully. I do not EVER promote negative about any surgeon. Some may read into that themselves when I simply list another surgeon's strengths. That is their option. I point out those traits of someone that others have noted or that I personally have noted. Comparisons may be the result but that is left to the individual and should be their responsibility. Public records are indeed a good tool to consider. I wish I would have done more research long long ago in 2002.
AS for promoting anyone on OH. That's what makes their business successful. They are all for it and permission has been given many times. Testimonials are forms of promotion. Answering a "what do you think about Dr._____?" is a promotion if you answer.
As I attend the various support groups, the one thing that is sadly clear is that there are zillions of lurkers on this site and so many are afraid to post. I have been referred to as always giving "Pollyanna answers". In reference to an earlier poster......something about sugar and vinegar? There are a lot of ways to make a point and a lot of ways to support people. I've just never felt like the strong arm cynnical approach ever brought return visitors or created a supportive and educational environment.
With these posts...I'd hope everyone would ask themselves the unasked questions of "Who are these people and why would they/she go to such lengths to discredit a surgeon or someone in the Bariatric field? Could they possibly be competitors? The economy with loss of funds, insurance, jobs, etc was noted in this thread. Does that make it worth someone's efforts to bring someone down? Who would gain from it really? Without pictures or true identities, can they be seriously considered? If those are indeed public records then what's the rest of the story? How would they know all of that and what kind of life do they really live if they do research based on malicious intent? Are we really to believe that they care so deeply for a population of people that they would invest this amount of time and energy into an attack such as this? Why is one of them even on OH when with all of their postings they never mention having had WLS themselves? They were challenged by that question on the Revision forum months ago and they quietly disappeared for a time. ...... Maybe we should all consider the source. And... if in your consideration you truly believe that I have malicious intent then you should consider that as well.
Sorry for the long long post! ...... I don't expect anything different with rebuttles but some inuendo should be addressed. Now i'm shifting gears and going to post something positive (you can skip over that one, right?!)
~~(No, I push the docs I think are good or suspect are good because of their patient reviews or because of my direct personal experience with them~~
Schlesinger... remember when he started working for Gitt? You pushed him to the point of people complaining and asking you to shut up about it. You have an agenda and anyone with half a brain can see it.
~~Because I need 100 additional emails in my pm box of people who just want some support or help? ~~
And the "victim role" just as I pointed out yesterday.
~~ Guilty! My work description includes marketing! And, that is not "news". Everyone I know, knows what I do and who I work for. If I still worked in music then I'd still be guilty of trying to "drum up business".... It's a job description that many are gainfully employed in. All successful companies have marketing departments.~~
I don't give a rats back side what is in your job description. SUPPORT boards and SUPPORT groups should be free of some idiot trying to sell us something. It should be for SUPPORT! This is the concept that you just can't get through your friggen head.
~~My addiction to support groups and my friends was thriving long before I made the transition from music to surgeons.~~
Your addiction? Oh please, too late - you already outted yourself. You call it marketing. I call it unethical.
~~So sorry...the office never did pass that information on. They just "seemed" happy to have me help them out~~
What in the world makes you think DSers want you at their support meetings? Seriously, think about it. *I* know why you do it, more "marketing" and another group of people to target.
You know, I think you have pushed yourself onto people and in their groups so hard that I really do not think you have the slightest idea how this is making your boss appear. It makes it appear he's so hard up for business that he his to inflict you upon every SUPPORT group in real time and on line so you can drum up business for him. Is his rep so bad he has to resort to having you behave this way?
~~I'm working where I'm working now because I did my research and wanted to be able to "sell" a really great product!~~
See above.
~~I do not EVER promote negative about any surgeon.~~
Liar. I just gave you an example in another post. I will post the whole damn thing if you want. Then you also downed my own surgeon in a PM telling me the horrors of a Mexican surgeon but you just happened to work for a wonderful band surgeon, Simpson and I should go to him. Remember that, Joyce?
~~How would they know all of that and what kind of life do they really live if they do research based on malicious intent? Are we really to believe that they care so deeply for a population of people that they would invest this amount of time and energy into an attack such as this? Why is one of them even on OH when with all of their postings they never mention having had WLS themselves? They were challenged by that question on the Revision forum months ago and they quietly disappeared for a time. ...... Maybe we should all consider the source. And... if in your consideration you truly believe that I have malicious intent then you should consider that as well.~~
And the manipulation. Did I not just write yesterday (maybe two days ago) what your style is? Play the victim (done). Manipulation (done). Get your old cronies to go to bat for you (done).
Dangitall I'm good!
People are catching on, Joyce. It's not about support. It is all about marketing. You should be ashamed of yourself. Anything for the almighty dollar, right? Remember the "support" you gave me when I was a newbie and didn't know better? I learned my lesson in a hurry not to trust you with anything personal. You burned me pretty darn good, didn't you? That will never happen again.
You are in for a treat today. Well, I hope it will be today. I received a PM from someone yesterday wanting my phone number. After hearing the whole story and quite a list of telephone conversations she had yesterday she's going to post the results of what she has discovered.
Well MWG, I am starting to like your posts!
People are catching on, Joyce. It's not about support. It is all about marketing. You should be ashamed of yourself. Anything for the almighty dollar, right? Remember the "support" you gave me when I was a newbie and didn't know better? I learned my lesson in a hurry not to trust you with anything personal. You burned me pretty darn good, didn't you? That will never happen again. BAM!! Thats what I am talking about!! She is only in it for herself. She does help a few people along the way but thats only to gain business in the long run!
I still think it sucks that you are bashing Dr S because Joyce is well Joyce.
Did anyone else notice that every other post on the AZ Message board was started by JOYCE! Give us a break PLEASE. Take a few weeks off! We could all use it.
MWG, I think you should be fair and tell the world about every surgeon. The fact that you picked on Schelsinger to badmouth makes you sound spiteful and out for blood.
Help people educate themselves by giving facts and ways to find facts.
I am very much looking forward to the treat for today!!
Actually, I do. I talk about all of them that I know about. But I don't know many bariatric surgeons. General surgeons.. more, but not bariatric.
I mostly post on the Main Board. I discuss them there all the time. I do not like Orris and DeBarros, they are not always very kind to patients, they charge wayyyy freak'en too much money, I can't stand their patient coordinator.. some guy, forget his name. When we were doing the Phoenix Bandster Lunch he posed as a patient and asked to join the email list. Come to find out he just wanted a bunch of email addresses to sell them surgery. The dimwit didn't realize that these are all people that already HAD surgery. But, they will see people that were banded by other surgeons. He was posting on lapbandtalk.com a long time ago posing as a patient and someone outted him and he was almost banned by the board owner.
Fang and Juarez... I like them. I have a friend that was banded in Colorado and upon arriving home she had very serious complications and at 2AM one morning they were the only doctors willing to take her on. She was transferred to their hospital via ambulance and they were able to save her band. I had the opportunity to meet them and talk to them as well as many nurses that work with them and patients too. Nobody had anything negative to say in the least and to be honest the opinions of the nurses that see their work day in and day out are the folks I pay the most attention to.
Simpson... I think he's probably one of the best surgeons in the valley but nobody will ever know it because he's become a band mill with an amazingly deceptive and misleading website. Bands are easy, a trained monkey could do one. To be honest I think the fills are more of an art than the surgery but that's another topic. He's a huge pile of wasted surgical skill walking around in a lab coat.
Schlesinger... I think he is dangerous and it has nothing in the world to do with Joyce. I know what he does within his own practice to make all his complications look like it's the patient's fault. His documentation is deceptive (anyone who has problems is non compliant, a total crock!), I know that he's missed an obvious infection on the same patient twice, prescribe the wrong antibiotics, not do a culture, and here well over a year later the patient is still recovering. He bypassed too much intestine on Lizzie and claims SHE is non compliant. Her Mayo doctors do not agree. TJWoods Mayo doctors do not agree he was non compliant. Mayo doctors have seen plenty of Schlesinger's mistakes. Call them up and ask them. Nurses that have worked with Schlesinger wouldn't dream of going to him, ask them. So you see, it has nothing in the world to do with Joyce. My problem with Joyce goes back over three years.
Berger and Aldrige (sp?) in Flag... Love 'em! I think they are fantastic, they will see patients they did not operate on, and they don't push the band. ;o))))
Those are really the only doctors I know about. Now, ask me about Mexican docs and I'm a pro and I DO talk about all of them, good and bad and I back it up with very specific patient experiences and links. I talk about tons of doctors all the time on OH, just not on the AZ board. The AZ board is allllll about Joyce and it's sickening. She starts most every thread, lies through her teeth, uses support boards and egroups for marketing, and then when confronted she rolls over and plays dead like a victim that was just run over by a big bad mean car. I'm sick of it.
So again, I do talk about doctors and what I know but typically just not on the AZ board but on the MB or surgery specific boards. Who the hell wants to be bombarded by Joyce Joyce Joyce Joyce Joyce. They should rename the AZ board "Joyce's marketing board." OH could advertise it by saying if you don't want support but you want to be sold snake oil come to Joyce's Marketing Board!
On December 10, 2009 at 12:08 PM Pacific Time, MidwesternGirl wrote:
On December 10, 2009 at 11:42 AM Pacific Time, roseyredgal wrote:
On December 10, 2009 at 10:02 AM Pacific Time, MidwesternGirl wrote:
On December 10, 2009 at 8:54 AM Pacific Time, JRinAZ wrote:
"I wanted to make it very clear, I am not a buddy of Joyce. matter of fact I can not stand her. She is pushy and overbearing! She pushes all the docs in town. (No, I push the docs I think are good or suspect are good because of their patient reviews or because of my direct personal experience with them. I am one of many who shares information and I've done that for 8 years on O.H.; even when my only job description was "Mom" and music teacher...... I definitely leave many names off of lists for a reason.) And that is a problem becauseShe is marketing herself! Marketing myself? Because I am selling a book? Because I need 100 additional emails in my pm box of people who just want some support or help? Because I hope for the next Nobel Peace Prize? Because I get brownnie points with my family when I spend extra hours with my WLS buds? Oh sure!I And I need to shop for my gown for the next Miss America pageant too! She is trying to drum up business. Guilty! My work description includes marketing! And, that is not "news". Everyone I know, knows what I do and who I work for. If I still worked in music then I'd still be guilty of trying to "drum up business".... It's a job description that many are gainfully employed in. All successful companies have marketing departments. The only reason she attends so many support groups is to get business for her employer. I have attended support groups long before I ever worked in the Bariatric or Plastic Surgery world. I started several groups: WLSST, AZ Grads, the Chandler group, and the HM group and currently am working on a "Back on Track" group. I've put miles on my car for years meeting up with peeps all over AZ. My addiction to support groups and my friends was thriving long before I made the transition from music to surgeons. In fact, I met my first surgeon AT an OH event/support group in California. She posts that she is having plastic surgery herself only to post again a few days later that her labs are bad and she can not have surgery. Yup! That stinks! Like Lizzie, I have some issues. Imagine working for an amazing plastic surgeon and having the opportunity to look as great as his post-ops and not being able to because of LABS!!! My pcp AND p.s. boss want me healthy before I have a big surgery. It's a bummer but I'm grateful they are protecting me from the possibilities! There are several of us Schlesinger patients that have complained about her. So sorry...the office never did pass that information on. They just "seemed" happy to have me help them out I wish she would not attend the DS group anymore. It is NOT a DS group. It is a HM group which is how I post it all the time (named by Jen). HM includes ERny, Distal and DS as it stands for Highly Malabsorptive. I'm sorry you don't want me to attend . I approached the Dr. S group and offered to start it. I attended a lot of groups in the valley (as is always pointed out) but none of them addressed the needs of the ERny specifically. Other pts expressed the same desire for something for them. So, I attended the group because I started the group! It was not part of their COE but was simply meant as a peer facilitated option for those interested. Tempe St Luke's didn't even promote the group. I did. I asked another HM girl to start a yahoo site so the group would have a place to share information. Dr. Schlesinger's staff kindly found us a room and made sure it was unlocked. Period. Dr. S came to the group when he could. I'm sure in light of all "this" that the group will now be part of their program. I noticed she took Schlesinger off her profile and she is not pushing him. I don't like drama anymore than the next gal. I do not want to be the reason that some good man is brought down. I truly believe that Dr. Schlesinger is a good surgeon, a kind and caring person and is thorough to the best of his knowledge. I got tired of fighting the DS battle for them. I think the DS is a fab surgery and have often said that I wish I could have had that at the very beginning. Since there is one surgeon in AZ that does the DS then I will continue to suggest Dr. S, when asked. Whether or not I would have another ERny if given the chance? Hmmmm.....still deciding on some days. Most days I love my life and some days I feel awful (low anemia) and call upon some experts on support sites that have "been there done that and recovered".....trolls looking for dirt on me grab those little pieces of my life and post them out of context. First and foremost, I am a WLS post-op and this venue is for me as well as all of you. I challenge anyone to prove they feel perfect and "up" every day and with every post!I guess It would be really nice if she would stop pushing herself on all of us." None of us are loved or even tolerated by all. Those who haven't liked me in the past haven't found it to be a problem to skip over my posts, delete them, ignore me at groups, etc. I'm sorry that I have upset your world so much. I promise that I do not wake up each morning wondering who I can irritate for that day.
I will continue to pay it forward for those who want my "opinion". I will continue to attend support groups because I need them to stay on track. I will continue to promote my boss and any other great surgeon that someone else may benefit from hearing about. I will continue being an advocate for better treatment and education for the morbidly obese.
I have worked in this industry because it's fun to hang with my demographic of people and I feel that I can make a bit of a difference in someone's life. As for my changes of programs/employment; that is not unusual in this field. I spoke with a Bariatric employee of a program yesterday who had been at 3 other programs. Jen started out with DeBarros/Orris, went to AZWLS and now is at Tempe St Luke's. It happens in EVERY industry. People imply there was dark drama involved. I simply moved on from one place because they needed someone fulltime and I was still teaching music lesson and couldn' t do full time. No dark secrets. I'm working where I'm working now because I did my research and wanted to be able to "sell" a really great product!
If this entire bunch of "stuff" has any use at all....it is in fact that people are responsible for their choices and their research BUT.....I understand the "trust factor" and will "suggest" Bariatric and Plastic surgeon's carefully. I do not EVER promote negative about any surgeon. Some may read into that themselves when I simply list another surgeon's strengths. That is their option. I point out those traits of someone that others have noted or that I personally have noted. Comparisons may be the result but that is left to the individual and should be their responsibility. Public records are indeed a good tool to consider. I wish I would have done more research long long ago in 2002.
AS for promoting anyone on OH. That's what makes their business successful. They are all for it and permission has been given many times. Testimonials are forms of promotion. Answering a "what do you think about Dr._____?" is a promotion if you answer.
As I attend the various support groups, the one thing that is sadly clear is that there are zillions of lurkers on this site and so many are afraid to post. I have been referred to as always giving "Pollyanna answers". In reference to an earlier poster......something about sugar and vinegar? There are a lot of ways to make a point and a lot of ways to support people. I've just never felt like the strong arm cynnical approach ever brought return visitors or created a supportive and educational environment.
With these posts...I'd hope everyone would ask themselves the unasked questions of "Who are these people and why would they/she go to such lengths to discredit a surgeon or someone in the Bariatric field? Could they possibly be competitors? The economy with loss of funds, insurance, jobs, etc was noted in this thread. Does that make it worth someone's efforts to bring someone down? Who would gain from it really? Without pictures or true identities, can they be seriously considered? If those are indeed public records then what's the rest of the story? How would they know all of that and what kind of life do they really live if they do research based on malicious intent? Are we really to believe that they care so deeply for a population of people that they would invest this amount of time and energy into an attack such as this? Why is one of them even on OH when with all of their postings they never mention having had WLS themselves? They were challenged by that question on the Revision forum months ago and they quietly disappeared for a time. ...... Maybe we should all consider the source. And... if in your consideration you truly believe that I have malicious intent then you should consider that as well.
Sorry for the long long post! ...... I don't expect anything different with rebuttles but some inuendo should be addressed. Now i'm shifting gears and going to post something positive (you can skip over that one, right?!)
~~(No, I push the docs I think are good or suspect are good because of their patient reviews or because of my direct personal experience with them~~
Schlesinger... remember when he started working for Gitt? You pushed him to the point of people complaining and asking you to shut up about it. You have an agenda and anyone with half a brain can see it.
~~Because I need 100 additional emails in my pm box of people who just want some support or help? ~~
And the "victim role" just as I pointed out yesterday.
~~ Guilty! My work description includes marketing! And, that is not "news". Everyone I know, knows what I do and who I work for. If I still worked in music then I'd still be guilty of trying to "drum up business".... It's a job description that many are gainfully employed in. All successful companies have marketing departments.~~
I don't give a rats back side what is in your job description. SUPPORT boards and SUPPORT groups should be free of some idiot trying to sell us something. It should be for SUPPORT! This is the concept that you just can't get through your friggen head.
~~My addiction to support groups and my friends was thriving long before I made the transition from music to surgeons.~~
Your addiction? Oh please, too late - you already outted yourself. You call it marketing. I call it unethical.
~~So sorry...the office never did pass that information on. They just "seemed" happy to have me help them out~~
What in the world makes you think DSers want you at their support meetings? Seriously, think about it. *I* know why you do it, more "marketing" and another group of people to target.
You know, I think you have pushed yourself onto people and in their groups so hard that I really do not think you have the slightest idea how this is making your boss appear. It makes it appear he's so hard up for business that he his to inflict you upon every SUPPORT group in real time and on line so you can drum up business for him. Is his rep so bad he has to resort to having you behave this way?
~~I'm working where I'm working now because I did my research and wanted to be able to "sell" a really great product!~~
See above.
~~I do not EVER promote negative about any surgeon.~~
Liar. I just gave you an example in another post. I will post the whole damn thing if you want. Then you also downed my own surgeon in a PM telling me the horrors of a Mexican surgeon but you just happened to work for a wonderful band surgeon, Simpson and I should go to him. Remember that, Joyce?
~~How would they know all of that and what kind of life do they really live if they do research based on malicious intent? Are we really to believe that they care so deeply for a population of people that they would invest this amount of time and energy into an attack such as this? Why is one of them even on OH when with all of their postings they never mention having had WLS themselves? They were challenged by that question on the Revision forum months ago and they quietly disappeared for a time. ...... Maybe we should all consider the source. And... if in your consideration you truly believe that I have malicious intent then you should consider that as well.~~
And the manipulation. Did I not just write yesterday (maybe two days ago) what your style is? Play the victim (done). Manipulation (done). Get your old cronies to go to bat for you (done).
Dangitall I'm good!
People are catching on, Joyce. It's not about support. It is all about marketing. You should be ashamed of yourself. Anything for the almighty dollar, right? Remember the "support" you gave me when I was a newbie and didn't know better? I learned my lesson in a hurry not to trust you with anything personal. You burned me pretty darn good, didn't you? That will never happen again.
You are in for a treat today. Well, I hope it will be today. I received a PM from someone yesterday wanting my phone number. After hearing the whole story and quite a list of telephone conversations she had yesterday she's going to post the results of what she has discovered.
Well MWG, I am starting to like your posts!
People are catching on, Joyce. It's not about support. It is all about marketing. You should be ashamed of yourself. Anything for the almighty dollar, right? Remember the "support" you gave me when I was a newbie and didn't know better? I learned my lesson in a hurry not to trust you with anything personal. You burned me pretty darn good, didn't you? That will never happen again. BAM!! Thats what I am talking about!! She is only in it for herself. She does help a few people along the way but thats only to gain business in the long run!
I still think it sucks that you are bashing Dr S because Joyce is well Joyce.
Did anyone else notice that every other post on the AZ Message board was started by JOYCE! Give us a break PLEASE. Take a few weeks off! We could all use it.
MWG, I think you should be fair and tell the world about every surgeon. The fact that you picked on Schelsinger to badmouth makes you sound spiteful and out for blood.
Help people educate themselves by giving facts and ways to find facts.
I am very much looking forward to the treat for today!!
Actually, I do. I talk about all of them that I know about. But I don't know many bariatric surgeons. General surgeons.. more, but not bariatric.
I mostly post on the Main Board. I discuss them there all the time. I do not like Orris and DeBarros, they are not always very kind to patients, they charge wayyyy freak'en too much money, I can't stand their patient coordinator.. some guy, forget his name. When we were doing the Phoenix Bandster Lunch he posed as a patient and asked to join the email list. Come to find out he just wanted a bunch of email addresses to sell them surgery. The dimwit didn't realize that these are all people that already HAD surgery. But, they will see people that were banded by other surgeons. He was posting on lapbandtalk.com a long time ago posing as a patient and someone outted him and he was almost banned by the board owner.
Fang and Juarez... I like them. I have a friend that was banded in Colorado and upon arriving home she had very serious complications and at 2AM one morning they were the only doctors willing to take her on. She was transferred to their hospital via ambulance and they were able to save her band. I had the opportunity to meet them and talk to them as well as many nurses that work with them and patients too. Nobody had anything negative to say in the least and to be honest the opinions of the nurses that see their work day in and day out are the folks I pay the most attention to.
Simpson... I think he's probably one of the best surgeons in the valley but nobody will ever know it because he's become a band mill with an amazingly deceptive and misleading website. Bands are easy, a trained monkey could do one. To be honest I think the fills are more of an art than the surgery but that's another topic. He's a huge pile of wasted surgical skill walking around in a lab coat.
Schlesinger... I think he is dangerous and it has nothing in the world to do with Joyce. I know what he does within his own practice to make all his complications look like it's the patient's fault. His documentation is deceptive (anyone who has problems is non compliant, a total crock!), I know that he's missed an obvious infection on the same patient twice, prescribe the wrong antibiotics, not do a culture, and here well over a year later the patient is still recovering. He bypassed too much intestine on Lizzie and claims SHE is non compliant. Her Mayo doctors do not agree. TJWoods Mayo doctors do not agree he was non compliant. Mayo doctors have seen plenty of Schlesinger's mistakes. Call them up and ask them. Nurses that have worked with Schlesinger wouldn't dream of going to him, ask them. So you see, it has nothing in the world to do with Joyce. My problem with Joyce goes back over three years.
Berger and Aldrige (sp?) in Flag... Love 'em! I think they are fantastic, they will see patients they did not operate on, and they don't push the band. ;o))))
Those are really the only doctors I know about. Now, ask me about Mexican docs and I'm a pro and I DO talk about all of them, good and bad and I back it up with very specific patient experiences and links. I talk about tons of doctors all the time on OH, just not on the AZ board. The AZ board is allllll about Joyce and it's sickening. She starts most every thread, lies through her teeth, uses support boards and egroups for marketing, and then when confronted she rolls over and plays dead like a victim that was just run over by a big bad mean car. I'm sick of it.
So again, I do talk about doctors and what I know but typically just not on the AZ board but on the MB or surgery specific boards. Who the hell wants to be bombarded by Joyce Joyce Joyce Joyce Joyce. They should rename the AZ board "Joyce's marketing board." OH could advertise it by saying if you don't want support but you want to be sold snake oil come to Joyce's Marketing Board!
Well can we agree to disagree on Schlesinger! I had surgery with him and have a first hand knowledge of his surgical skill. ALL docs have complications!
The best thing you have posted:
Who the hell wants to be bombarded by Joyce Joyce Joyce Joyce Joyce. They should rename the AZ board "Joyce's marketing board." OH could advertise it by saying if you don't want support but you want to be sold snake oil come to Joyce's Marketing Board!
That is perfect!! I wished I said it!!
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