The Sham that is Prayer

I say we start discussing from Tek's list of interesting topics! The very first one, "The Sham that is Prayer." I like to say "Nothing fails like prayer!" People who pray like to believe that when they get what they asked for, their prayer was heard. OJ's mother declared after his acquittal that "the prayers of the righteous" prevailed. So that meant god liked OJ more than Fred Goldman? And of course we've all heard what seem like excuses when a prayer isn't answered. It's "not god's will" or "it's not in god's timing." I continue to be amazed by the willingness of people to make excuses when their god fails to come through for them. How else could they could deal with the disappointment? So why don't they abandon this uncaring god? Or begin to believe that the phone line to heaven's been disconnected? Is it because they're simply incapable of even imagining the possibility that there never was anyone listening? Considering prayer on another level, however, can we totally discount it as a sham? People often credit their god with something they accomplished themselves. A belief that prayers have power might actually bolster the power of will for some people. They're playing a mind trick on themselves and don't even know it. There's definitely some positive value in that in many cases. My own grandmother had an extremely strong belief in the power of prayer. Of course, it wasn't the prayer; but her belief in it that worked for her. Her subconscious mind would tell her what she most wanted to believe. She would interpret that as answers to prayers and she would be consoled or strengthened or whatever she needed! It worked for her! People believe what they most want to believe and I think for some people that comes through in what they believe about prayer. I feel that there is no need for prayer when you do not suffer under the belief that your life and destiny are at the whim of a mercurial diety. But "What's great about being an atheist" is another whole discussion!

Obviously, any discussion of prayer assumes the existence of a god to whom the prayers are directed. Further, it must assumed that God will meddle in human affairs. -> God is omnipotent. God already knows what has or will happen. God already knows the content or purpose of any prayer before its even thought of. For all intents and purposes, there is no need for prayer IF its purpose is to inform or ask for change. -> God has a Plan. Asking for a change would actually be opposing Gods Plan. Who am I to ask God to change his plan? If God has a plan, we have no free will. -> Lets all Pray. Often, prayer is treated as a cosmic popularity contest, that the more people we can get to pray for a particular thing, the more likely it is that God will act. -> Praying for others. They are suffering. God knows this, and at BEST has allowed their suffering. At worst, God caused their suffering. Either way, they are in the situation God has chosen. I've heard several reasons why prayer is important that have more to do with our relative position and relationship with God. The whole things seems to be some sort of a "We know God knows we know" kind of thing, where we pray to show our appreciation for God as Loving Creator and giver of all things. God already knows this, but likes to hear it anyhow. We know God knows, but do it anyhow. Tek

Oh thanks Tek, I really had to chuckle---why pray if god knows all, what can you tell him that he doesn't already know about you and your future and what he's going to decide he'll let you have!!!! The points you raise all indicate the human psychological need that prayer fulfills since clearly god doesn't need prayer---except if we are to assume that he requires frequent demonstrative worship in return for wishes granted (which were determined ahead of time anyway)! And even that logic seems to crumble in situations of misfortune or misery when you realize that god would have caused all conditions from which one might pray for relief! Prayer is the ignition key in the coping mechanism that is religion. You're never completely out of options if you can ask god for help and when you don't get what you ask for, you have an explanation!

My mind is always blown when people say, "we prayed and prayed and look...blah, blah, blah happened." Or, "god has not abandoned us. The whole city of New Orleans is gone, but god is good. He found us food,and water; he gave us shelter. he did this, and did that." PULEEZE!! Sh** happens,and you can pray all day, but the reality is, when it's gonna happen, prepare: don't pray! I'm a hospice nurse, and I see people who absolutely believe that the suffering thier child is going through (the last one was four years old) was because god was challeging them--god was testing their faith. The boy suffered. He died. What the hell kind of test involves torturing a child to death????? People floor me with how they think prayer changes a damn thing. This little boy had a seizure disorder that rendered his brain unable to ward of contant seizures. The little boy had NO quality of life. Medications, treatments, hospitalizations, pain: and the family says, "god is so good to us, he's given us little boy "C" for 4 years. I just want to scream!!! You thank your god for this???? Misery, and zero quality of life is a gift from god?? Let me tell you, I want no part of that god, thank you!!! Jessica

You're a hospice nurse??? Oh man.. You know, if I think about it, maybe all hospice workers should be atheists because at that time, maybe more than any other time in our lives, there are things that just HAVE to be done. What you described in your post Jessica, I have a LOT of issues with that very thing. I think people force others to endure horrible suffering because they believe "god is in control" and he's going to do... something. Whenever he gets around to it. They refuse to step up and see REALITY and make the tough decisions that MUST be made! For some people, I think part of it is their own denial. Look at how the Schindlers convinced themselves Terri Schiavo was trying to communicate with them. But I really can't deal with how people will allow their loved ones to linger because they're waiting around for god to come "take" them. Meanwhile, every medical instrument ever invented is hooked up to them, keeping this god at bay...

Hey, torturing a child to death fits in perfectly with the god of the bible. The story of Job is simply revolting. To summarize, god tortures an innocent man, kills his family, destroys all his property, and reduces him to poverty and ill health all to win a bet he (god) made with satan.