Week 3 Eating

Most who are "slow losers" that I have seen come through these forums either have significant metabolic problems (an 800 calorie diet with a 1000 calorie metabolism will yield a slow loser, no matter what level of carbs or fats they maintain) or are running at higher caloric levels along with possible higher carbohydrate levels. There are lots of programs that prescribe higher calorie diets (1000-1200 or more) or don't specify (just eat healthy and don't count) which make it difficult to pin a slow loss problem specifically on a macro number vs. overall caloric levels.

I have been 9+ years post op.When I eat carbs - starches and fruits (not junk food) I gain weight. I actually added some grains and fruits to my diet to gain some weight. It worked - I gained 10 lbs. in less than 3 months (I needed to gain). I added 2-3 serving of fruits per day, and some high fiber grains. Not only I gained weight - but because of the carbs - my appetite was higher and I could eat more.

I am back now to mostly protein and fat, with some non starchy veggies and some nuts. That diet - not fad diet allows -me to maintain my weight, getting enough proteins and good fats. My cravings are now almost gone (when eating more carbs - they caused carbs cravings for me) and it is so easy to follow my eating plan.

Did you simply add those extra foods to your diet, or substitute maintaining a similar caloric level? Adding grains and fruits (or nuts, high fat dairy or meats or whatever) to a diet without compensating elsewhere is a great way to gain some weight; it doesn't matter whether carbohydrates, fats, proteins or some combination is added, the extra calories will tend to stay with you.

When I was about four months out in my loss phase, I specifically added some complex carbs to my diet (ultimately by way of some whole grain toast as part of a sandwich) to promote better energy management (stretching the time in the pool beyond an hour) but did so by substitution rather than addition, keeping the overall caloric level constant. My loss rate continued at a stable rate, which typically would be considered an improvement as our loss rate usually declines over time. I'm not saying that the carbs themselves improved my loss, but by feeding my body what it needed, it allowed it to burn the excess better. It's a big YMMV thing.

Conversely, a couple of years ago I tried a low fat diet (I know, very unfashionable!) in probing a medical problem. Despite increasing my normally moderate intake of grains and root vegetables as recommended, I still lost about 8 lb over a month that I didn't need to lose. It was a caloric issue again - despite some compensation of the lose fat calories, I still was not totally making up for the lost calories, so I lost weight.

This is the essence of how all of these macro diets work for weight loss - by significantly reducing one macro or another (typically carbs or fats) that's reducing 30-40% of a typical diet, which is a lot of calories, and even if one is "allowed" more of the other non-evil macro, it takes time, typically many months, for most to compensate and get back to their prior caloric level and stall out or start gaining again.

Cravings and satiety can be quite variable and personal (cue Donna to repost her thread of a couple months ago about gut biome/brain connections and cravings). Bread doesn't matter to me - I can take it or leave it - while others will be total breadoholics. Fats like nuts can be just as crave inducing to some as Twinkies to others - they are a very common trigger food. Foods by themselves behave differently than in combination with others (that difference between glycemic load and glycemic index. An orange by itself may not be that satisfying for any length of time, but in combination with some chicken, spinach and avocado is can be very satisfying and in total better nutritionally than any of them alone. Fruit with some cheese is often a better snack than fruit alone. The sandwich that I mentioned above did its' nutritional job much better than meat and cheese alone, which did nothing to solve the problem.

There is a lot of context in diet that makes it difficult to identify someone as having "too many carbs (or fat)" or to specify some ideal macro number.

I did not add the carbs - like grains and fruits to my calories. Even if I wanted to - physically it would be impossible for me. I switched some higher fat items for higher carbs item.

I.e instead of nuts as a snack - I ate an apple.

Dinner - instead of meat and non starchy veggies with fat - I had some grains. Or I had a slice of thin crust pizza.

I rarely count calories. I don't need to. But eating proteins and fat and non starch veggies, plus nuts - I could not gain weight. But eating more carbs instead of fat - I gained weight rather quickly.

I have been post op close to 10 years. I know what makes me gain weight and what doesn't. Carbs - starches and some fruits - I don't need to eat a lot of it to gain weight.

My BF is "normie". I slowly switched him to eggs bacon and veggies for breakfast. Instead of milk and waffles he used to eat. He lost 25 lbs and maintain rather well without really trying very hard. Plus - his chronic sinus issues got much better.

He still eats "regular" food for lunch or dinner, but only switching one high carb meal for one high protein- high fat meal, changed how his body is processing food.

He used to get very hungry at lunch, now - he doesn't need as much food for lunch as when he had high carb breakfast.

Did you simply add those extra foods to your diet, or substitute maintaining a similar caloric level? Adding grains and fruits (or nuts, high fat dairy or meats or whatever) to a diet without compensating elsewhere is a great way to gain some weight; it doesn't matter whether carbohydrates, fats, proteins or some combination is added, the extra calories will tend to stay with you.

When I was about four months out in my loss phase, I specifically added some complex carbs to my diet (ultimately by way of some whole grain toast as part of a sandwich) to promote better energy management (stretching the time in the pool beyond an hour) but did so by substitution rather than addition, keeping the overall caloric level constant. My loss rate continued at a stable rate, which typically would be considered an improvement as our loss rate usually declines over time. I'm not saying that the carbs themselves improved my loss, but by feeding my body what it needed, it allowed it to burn the excess better. It's a big YMMV thing.

Conversely, a couple of years ago I tried a low fat diet (I know, very unfashionable!) in probing a medical problem. Despite increasing my normally moderate intake of grains and root vegetables as recommended, I still lost about 8 lb over a month that I didn't need to lose. It was a caloric issue again - despite some compensation of the lose fat calories, I still was not totally making up for the lost calories, so I lost weight.

This is the essence of how all of these macro diets work for weight loss - by significantly reducing one macro or another (typically carbs or fats) that's reducing 30-40% of a typical diet, which is a lot of calories, and even if one is "allowed" more of the other non-evil macro, it takes time, typically many months, for most to compensate and get back to their prior caloric level and stall out or start gaining again.

Cravings and satiety can be quite variable and personal (cue Donna to repost her thread of a couple months ago about gut biome/brain connections and cravings). Bread doesn't matter to me - I can take it or leave it - while others will be total breadoholics. Fats like nuts can be just as crave inducing to some as Twinkies to others - they are a very common trigger food. Foods by themselves behave differently than in combination with others (that difference between glycemic load and glycemic index. An orange by itself may not be that satisfying for any length of time, but in combination with some chicken, spinach and avocado is can be very satisfying and in total better nutritionally than any of them alone. Fruit with some cheese is often a better snack than fruit alone. The sandwich that I mentioned above did its' nutritional job much better than meat and cheese alone, which did nothing to solve the problem.

There is a lot of context in diet that makes it difficult to identify someone as having "too many carbs (or fat)" or to specify some ideal macro number.

I know that my personal experience is not a prof and it should not be a prof to anyone.

I know that if I eat more carbs - I crave more carbs. Plus due to the way my body and pancreas works - I am very carb-sensitive. Eating carbs - often cause RH for me. It si an indication taht my body overreacts to carbs, releasing too much insulin i response to carbs or lean proteins (google food insulin index)

I am well aware of gut/brain/obesity etc with gut biota.

I experiment with my body and I still will be doing that until I die. The food, hormones, gut biota at any given day, time of the day, etc etc - all are connected. The relationship is not static - it is dynamic and it can change from day to day - even from hour to hour.

It is a very complex system.

Based on my personal observation an observation of people close to me, people here on OH for over 9 years - I seldom see people who incorporate lots of carbs into their diet and have no problem maintaining, unless they are "professional" athletes *****ally can burn a lot of carbs.

Eating proteins fast and non starchy veggies- I can eat as much as I want or need. The low carb/higher fat diet limits not only how much volume I can eat, but also cravings and appetite.

adding carbs - or rather- eating carbs instead of proteins/fat changes how hungry I become and what foods I may want - crave. While eating more carbs - I DO have to restrict qty - since some carbs are slider foods to my body. I don't need to do that when I eat high fat/moderate protein diet. My body gets efficient burning fat. Plus I am much calmer, not having to deal with BS high and downs.

High carbs may work for you - i am happy for you. But I do believe most of us who become MO - have a issues with hunger-full signals and insulin.

Today I had 1-2 oz of nuts (grazing) for "breakfast". I was not very hungry so I had a late lunch - None broth beef and veggies very thick soup with a slice of a "mock" bread. I probably will have some pork, avocado and olives for dinner... maybe with some cucumber salad. If I have space.

Depends what time I had dinner - I may have a snack either before dinner (if I work late) or LNS - either some more nuts or nut butter (i.e. macadamia nuts) or have my "almond coconut" muffin or pumpkin custard. I don't weigh or measure the meat. I eat slowly until I am close to feeling full. If I don't have avocado _ I add good quality mayo, or reheat the pork with butter, or other fats.

Fats not only keeps me full, adds flavor and are also beneficial for BM, and nice skin and hair. (not dry)

Carbs - they can make me more gassy and contribute to RH (reactive hypoglycemia).

I don't claim that my diet is good for everyone, but since my RNY - as long as I follow that- I have no problem marinating or even losing some regain, without having to count and weigh and measure everything.

I do eat more "carbs" in my days when my weight drops below a my lowest acceptable weight. When I get "too skinny" I don't feel good physically and I start losing my muscle mass. I already have a relatively low body fat% (19-21%). I don't like getting any lower than that.

My clinical experience is skewed because I treat disordered eating, so I mention my bias as a caveat.

I see many people have issues with carbs. It depends. Individuals prone to food addiction or transfer addictions should avoid them in large amount closer to surgery. The more obese your starting weight the more insulin resistant you are, typically, and so many of us who were several hundred pounds overweight often will do better out-come wise without larger amounts of carbohydrate.

Even the bariatric diet most programs here recommend typically doesn't exceed 100g of carbs generally, and they tell you to not worry about it at all if you have no room after protein.

I think that it's true protein must be the #1 goal for several months. However, even if you are protein-forward, it's nearly impossible to even eat carbs for a few months if you have an average sized sleeve and eat it first. Even 2 1/2 years out I have no room after 3-4 ounces of meat, and I easily hit 90g of protein a day.

Thanks! I think that's a good point that I need to keep in mind, the fact that programs, and people, vary. I'm doing well following my surgeon's guidelines and that is what I should focus on!

At 2 years out, 2oz of steak and one ounce of cheese is almost too much for me.

Be aware that at this early stage, you won't be able to feel any restriction, or know if/when you over-eat. The nerves in your stomach have been cut, so you won't really feel what your sleeve is telling you.

When would you say you felt restriction?