High-fiber, low-starch vegetables -- yea or nay?

It's pretty much impossible to be on a high carb (much less a very high carb) diet post op if you follow the basic protein requirements and have a caloric level vaguely consistent with weight loss goals - the numbers just don't add up. (How many calories are left over for fat and carbohydrates once protein is accounted for?) Whatever you do, you will by default be on a low carb, low fat diet, which I think is one of the reasons that WLS has been the most successful therapy for obesity these past few decades. It works well no matter what style of diet is popular at the time. It worked just as well twenty years ago when low fat was tbe diet of the day as it does today with the low carb craze. 

On the OP's basic question, absolutely veg and the like have a good part to play in our everyday diets, during the loss phase (at least later on) and most particularly in maintenance. My doc was adding veg to my diet after the first couple of weeks as my protein intake was more than satisfactory. Salads have been the only real staple of mine (as in, 5-6 days a week) since around the second month, and with some meat in there is a good way to boost the overall nutritional value of the diet with minimal caloric impact, and many meat/veg combination meals such as stews and stir fry dishes likewise work well providing high nutrition and satiety along with low calories. Even beyond the basic question of high fiber/low starch veg, others outside that basic category can be workable as well. Potatoes are calorically about the most efficient real food source of potassium that we have, so while not appropriate as a staple, they can pull their weight (so to speak) in moderation in some dishes.

One of the fundamental problems of many of these diets that go overboard on the low carb front (much the same as with the low fat diets of yesteryear) and why most RD's aren't big supporters of them outside of specific therapeutic uses, is that they tend to promote poor eating habits in the long term, which indeed we see quite frequently on these forums with the numbers who struggle in maintenance as they never learned to eat a healthy, sustainable diet during their loss phase. So enjoy those veg, and they will help you in the long term.

Actually, I have seen people eating high carbs post-op.  While yes, if you follow the plan you are low carb, the truth is not as many people are compliant as you might imagine.

And yup, low carb diets are always going to work better, especially for people with high rates of insulin resistance and skewed hunger, such as the morbidly obese.

I would argue more it's that many WLS patients have food addiction in conjunction with the obesity.  We tend to see more of a return of bad habits when food variation is encouraged.  I've had clients who binge eat on healthy vegetables, as many types of eating are pathological and have nothing to do with habit learning.  I think that is more an indication that behavioral support before and after is frequently notoriously absent.

I was diagnosed with Type II diabetes 2 years ago.  I totally changed my diet to low carb, high protein.  After considerable research, I stick to veggies that have a low glycemic impact (less impact on your blood sugar).  Even though my diabetes is ginormously better now, my plan is to stick with what I was doing once I am done with my Phases (starting Phase 3 next week).

I found turnip greens (or any greens) turned out to be a favorite, as well as broccoli, cauliflower, and tho slightly higher GI, green beans because I freaking love them.  I have avoided all rice, bread, pasta, starchy anything pretty much except for the occasional bit of potato as long as it was within my carb allowance for the day.  

When my phases are done I pretty much hope to stick to my programs guidelines of 60g protein per day, and with that I'll have these low GI veggies.  

Like calories, not all carbs are equal. I usually have a non-starch vegetable or salad with my protein and avoid bread, pasta, rice & white potato. Sometimes I will have a small quantity of sweet potato, quinoa, barley or lentils (made with chicken broth, smoked turkey & spinach) or a low carb/high fiber bread that contains protein. My nut suggested that I stay under 20 grams of carbs at any meal/snack & so far that seems to be working for me. 

What is a good low carb high fiber bread?

If you absolutely cannot live without bread, a slice of Ezekiel or Genesis bread (in the organic foods freezer in the supermarket) can't hurt once in a while, I suppose. But even 1000-grain bread is mostly starch, which is converted in your body into sugar -- i.e. not good for you. There's a recipe called Cloud Bread, which has no carbs at all. I've never tried it because I don't crave bread, but it gets high marks from many as a healthy and tasty bread substitute.

Cloud Bread

• 3 eggs, separated
• 3 tablespoons whole milk cottage cheese or 3 tablespoons cream cheese
• 1/4 teaspoon cream of tartar
• One 1-gram packet artificial sweetener

Preheat oven to 300 degrees F. Separate eggs carefully; there must be no yolk in the white. In one bowl, using whisk, mix together the egg yolks, the cottage cheese or cream cheese, and the sweetener until smooth. In the other bowl add cream of tartar to the egg whites and beat with an electric mixer on high speed until the mixture is fluffy and forms nice peaks. Very carefully, using a rubber spatula, fold the egg yolk mixture into the egg whites until mixed, but try not to break down the fluffiness of the egg whites too much. Spray two cookie sheets with Pam or other fat-free cooking spray. With a large spoon, "scoop" the mixture into 10 even rounds onto the sheets (about the size of the top half of a McDonald's hamburger bun; roughly 3/4-inch thick and 4-5 inches across). Bake on the middle rack for approximately 1/2 hour. You need to watch them until they become golden brown. Remove pans from oven. Remove "buns" from sheets onto cooling racks. While warm they are crumbly and similar to cooked meringues. Don't use them yet unless you like crisp "bread." Let them cool completely, then seal them in a Ziploc baggie or a Tupperware container overnight. The buns will change consistency from crisp to something much closer to bread -- soft and chewy. Makes 10 bun "halves."

psychoticparrot

I tried making cloud bread once. It was not delicious. My kids wouldn't go into the kitchen until the smell dissipated--an entire day.  My husband wanted to know what he had done to deserve the meringue hockey pucks.

However, that says a lot more about my cooking than the recipe. I really tried but.......

I'm sure it's delicious in the right hands. For now, though, I use carrot chips for everything: dip, tiny sandwiches, snacks.

Let me preface this with I don't have bread every day but when I do choose to have some, I like Healthly Life (white bread, english muffin or a hamburger roll), Pepperidge Farms Light Style Soft Wheat & Joseph's flax oat bran & whole wheat pita bread. I would consider these lower carb choices. 

I'm in maintenance and utilize non-starchy veggies on a regular basis. I know that I have to eat protein forward forever, but my heart prefers veggies.  I think they do improve satiety both in my head and in my sleeve.  And, as you say, they are nutritious.  

I frequently have a low calorie vegetable of the week prepared so that I can add protein of my choice to it for a quick meal.  Lately, I have been heavily into Savoy cabbage.  The current batch was braised with a bit of prosciutto, leek and a glug of apple cider vinegar.  Not everyone's choice of veggie dish, I know!    

Yea on every level for low starch veggies !!!

Honestly the difference between WL and maintenance is more veggies and a bit more fat calories.

Veggies also add a culinary balance in taste and texture to your meals.

As far as satiety and veggies are concerned, it's more about how they are prepared. Broccoli stalk for instance can be a great harder to digest food if it is on the under cooked side. Over cooked and mushy becomes a slider type food.

If you keep your protein amount correct, the veggies fall into place by itself.

I'm a big fan of veggie only snacks also...... veggies are a good thing !!!

frisco