Protein gms required for muscle gains

ive been seeing a trainer and he is adamant that I won't see muscle gains without using my protein to .8-1 fm per lb of body weight?  

Thoughts anyone?

There are ranges commonly mentioned, but they are just guesses. More importantly, you can't build new muscle on a calorie deficit. And if you are on a calorie surplus, you will also be gaining fat, and weight.

There is a ton of information out there on cutting and bulking.

A few thoughts on this topic -

Anyone associating protein gram requirements to body weight is using very gross approximations based upon normal (if not outright lean) people; it has no meaning to overweight and beyond people. Protein requirements are most closely associated with our lean body (or muscle) mass.

I would generally agree that we aren't going to gain any muscle mass while in a caloric deficit (though it might be possible to get in enough protein to do so and be in a caloric deficit, it would be an extremely rare case for it to happen.) From a practical perspective, our best goal while in loss mode is to preserve as much muscle mass as we can while losing to our goal.

The best (or at least most sensible) approach to our protein requirements that I have found is to link our protein intake to the maintenance of our lean body mass, assuming that our lean mass replaces itself every six months. This yields numbers in the same ballpark as the classic numbers that get thrown about in these forums - 60-80gm per day for most women (though some of the shorter, smaller framed women can have requirements in the low 50's), while most guys need in the 80-100 gm per day range, if not a bit more (my 150ish lb of lean mass needs around 100-105gm per day on this basis.)

If one wants to actually build muscle mass, the added requirement can be approximated by taking the desired gain (say 10 lb of muscle mass) spread over maybe six months (a reasonable time for a well designed program without any funny drugs, along with the work and dedication it takes to follow through on such a program,) would take an additional 40-50gm per day, above the basic maintenance requirement. That's only an additional 160 or so calories (for just the protein, then add whatever other calories are present in that additional food) so it may theoretically be possible in a deficit mode, but highly unlikely (particularly given the nutritional wasteland most of our diets are during our loss mode.)

depends on how much you weight and how much of that is muscle mass, but I think a minimum of 100g of protein a day is a good starting goal and also optimal for weight loss, and can up that 20g a day consumed after heavy weight training.

You can totally build muscle while in a calorie deficit, dont beleive anyone that tells you otherwise.  If you are obese you are literally covered in fuel your body can use to build muscle ... yes it's not optimal muscle gain, it's a lot slower than if you were in a calorie surplus.  Also the 'newb' gains people receive in the first 6 months of training (6-10lbs of muscle mass) will happen regardless of whether you are in a deficit or not provided you are still overweight with a lot of accessible body fat.  The factor that most WLS fail to take into account is that muscle gain and muscle retention isnt all about protein consumption, you NEED carbs intake to build and retain muscle - consume at least  whole fruit or 1 serv whole grain cereal/bread after intense heavy weight training to get the desired muscle.

I disagree. There is a LOT of research on this subject. It is possible to have very short term muscle gains for new lifters and the obese, but not much. For those in a long term calorie deficit, like everyone who has had WLS, you will ABSOLUTELY lose lean body mass. You can minimize it by focusing on protein and heavy lifting, but you WILL lose LBM. No ifs, and, or buts. And no one needs carbs for muscle.

You can gain a lot of strength while lifting heavy in a calorie deficit, but you won't build muscle. Strength and new muscle are not at all the same thing. The whole cycle of cutting and bulking are connected to the scientific reality of calorie deficit and surplus, and muscle loss and gain.

It's ok to dissagree of course, but you have to look at the sources of the information and who they are directed at.  most studies are done with average weight people who are maybe 19-25% body fat to start with, obese people have a lot more than this and it's not located in the subcutaneous fat, it's visceral and much more readily available.  And all the cutting and bulking stuff, that's for people who are under 18% body fat and looking to get to 10% body fat.  That requires a whole different set of cir****tances than and obese or morbidly obese person.

And yes if you are dropping 100lbs of body weight you will likely lose NET muscle mass regardless of your training and nutrition but that does not mean you not building muscle!  you lose it in places you no longer need it (like legs maybe) and gain it where you tear it up.  Plus the average obese person doesnt have a ton of muscle mass, much less than 20% of total body weight ... that's 50lbs for a 250lb person, regardless of what you lose while dieting, adding those newb gains and that slow regular muscle gain is a SIGNIFICANT increase in muscle mass overall.  I understand where you are coming from, but when I hear statements like 'you cant gain muscle in a deficit' ... people interpret that as 'I shouldnt bother trying to build muscle while in a deficit' and that is total BS you HAVE to workout as if you are trying to build a ton of muscle while in a deficit, not just for any possible gains, but because it's the best way to retain muscle.  And let me tell you, retaining muscle is 1000% easier than trying to gain it as a WLSer post weight loss!

I lifted / will lift again once healed heavy weights and used to eat half my body weight in protein.....I liked how I looked at goal weight.....for me i'd rather be buff than thin  plus lifting is the only thing that motivates to get me to the gym lol!!!!

Thank you all for your replies.  I've been on the slow boat as far as getting in shape post VSG but I can no longer put it off.. At almost 2 years post vsg I have made my goal weight, started walking and swimming, but now I need to gain some muscle.  I've never been inclined to sports (except swimming) and as an adult I became super sedentary after developing MS and gaining about 100 lbs.  I don't think I even have normal fat person muscle mass since I had the MS.  

This trainer is kicking my behind.  I'm doing 30 minutes 2 x week.  I keep telling myself I can do anything for 30 minutes but about 20 minutes in I'm doubting it!!  Anyway, onward with the journey