We are NOT normal...

Howdy...

I think it's well, great that you "threw that out there". It certainly gave me the opportunity to consider some things I had not previously thought about in any depth.

I do become anxious about "blanket statements". Being discriminated against because of obesity or because of anything is, I feel, so, well, dangerous. If we think obesity discrimination is tough to handle, you've not seen anything until you've seem someone be labeled as an addict. If you are, you are, and that's fine. But, if you're not but you take on the label, for whatever reason, you are setting up yourself for a very difficult time. Every wonder why AA is so secretive? So if I came across as being dismissive or overly critical, I apologize.

The more I experience, the more I need to reflect on how it all works together. When I look back on 46 years (well 43, because my first memories were at about 3), I did not do very well by me or others by just reacting. This is how I learn. So, thanks for helping me learn.

Cheers!
Cheryl
Cheryl

Howdy right back at you Cheryl,

I hadn't responded to your post yet cause I LOVED it and wanted to give it more attention then I had at the moment.  We may be posting to each other all day, lol!!

I personally HATE blanket statements and have had my fair share of them being Black, a Woman and Obese so I know my fair share of the "everybody Black/Woman/Obese" does this that or the other.

You NEVER came off that way and like I told the other poster you could never offend me cause in my 38 years (I remember back to 2) of being here and aware I LEARN from others.  Others who don't see how I see.  Other cultures, races and opinions make me a better person!  Makes my frame of reference that much great then it was before.

So we are ALL learning about each other and about what has brought us to where we are TODAY and learning even more about what will take us into tomorrow!  I'm ALL about learning and you have helped me as well =)

Great! I'm glad we're cool.

It was not my intention, but I feel I have hijacked your thread -- I'm sorry.

I presented part of my  "case study" in response to Laura's question of whether or not I was in denial -- seemingly -- because I researched and found cases of obesity that had nothing to do with addiction.

And, I felt I had to respond to the "you're an addict or you're a psychopath" statement? theory? belief? sorry, but that was way too OTT to ignore.

It was great to talk with you, Ms Shell.

Cheryl

Thanks, Laura Ann.  You said everything I wanted to say and more.  In addition, I've known abusers of drugs, alcohol, people and food who are not physically addicted, but choose to knowlingly lead lives dominated by something that negatively impacts their lives and the lives of their families.  So whether it is a physical addiction or an emotional addiction, it is still an addiction (otherwise, they must be unfeeling psychopaths).  In other words, this is a deep subject and I'm settling for the notion that I'm addicted to food.  Even now as I lose weight, I spend a lot of time thinking about it, reading recipes, cooking, and shopping.  Is it because I'm learning a new lifestyle or because I'm still obsessed? 

I don't want to take anything you've said out of context, but are you saying nothing comes before addiction and if not addiction, the next logical step is psychopathy?

I'm not trying to be a smart ass but Holy Smokes! There is just so much that is "wrong" about this statement, one of which is the use of the term "psychopaths".

Your obesity could be due to your environment -- the people around you or me or anyone for that matter could have a huge hand in obesity.

IMO -- Truly and sincerely, I think you are selling yourself and others short by not doing enough and your own research surrounding all the causes of obesity. I would think you're worth more than just having to settle.

I wish you the very best.
Cheryl

DoubleFlame,

I was saying that some people do not have physical or chemical or whatever addictions, but knowingly choose destructive behavior.  Can we agree on that?  If so, does that make them psychopaths? (A definition is: "A person with an antisocial personality disorder, manifested in aggressive, perverted, criminal, or amoral behavior without empathy or remorse.)  

I know that is a big jump and my point is that there are lots of aspects to obesity, so we're not going to resolve every person's problem today.  I have a pet theory that part of my weight gain was because I always felt hungry which I believe was caused by a bacteria in my stomach.  (I can't get a doctor to back me up on that.)  However, I also know that some of my eating was an addiction and I could go that place again.  I was an emotional eater (happy, sad, mad, bored, whatever) and carbs caused me to want to eat even more. 

Your situation is probably different.  I don't know you and cannot pretend to understand your issues.  However, I've spent a goodly amount of time figuring out myself and can speak to my issues.  Ms Shell turned a mirror to many of my issues.  You, on the other hand, can come across as argumentative and defensive.  I don't know why your posts strike me that way, but there is a tone to them that can be abrasive.  If we can agree to disagree I won't reply to you again to avoid continuing this.

 Shorter,

In your previous post: You agreed with everything and more --...You agreed that obese people must have an addiction, if not physical then it was emotional -- You agreed that those (of us) who do not believe we have an addiction are in denial. Then you made your own addition and added yet another leap to psychopathy.

In total, that is pretty serious stuff to say and to write out on the immortal internet. My response was indeed, a very serious and in fact, was very much meant to argue against your writings. If someone intimated/labeled you or any obese friends or family or any obese persons, in general, as psychopaths, wouldn't you get serious?

Yes, I agree that some people knowingly choose behaviors that are destructive to self and other.

No, it does not make them psychopaths, not even by the definition you've provided. To "safely" consider someone a psychopath and to ensure no one is being labeled a psychopath unfairly, whether by intent or implication, each and every factor and or a combination of them needs to be proven out as well as to the degree of effect and by someone who is qualified to do so.

Your previous writings are much different than what you are saying now. And I can understand why you are defensive in these writings. But, truly, I am not responsible for what you write or the words you choose.

Take care,
Cheryl

I am going home and throwing away the easter candy!

I think that what you say is very true for many but for me it is a bit different. For me it is OCD. Obsess over food, that's why I could never diet pre op. I just couldn't. I take Effexor and it kills my head hunger. I don't even think about it when I'm taking Effexor. Not everyone has OCD and this wouldn't work for everyone but I think we all have different reasons for eating as we do.

I have come a long way and today I don't need to take Effexor all the time, just during times of stress, etc. I take it several weeks out of the year.

It might be worth some to look into it. My surgeon gives it to me.

  Hi Laura Ann,

I'm not offended at all. The concept of denial is an important one that I'm happy to talk about.

The intention of my post was to show that there are many obese people who are not carb addicts. And there are many obese people who are not addicts, period. And, it is even more dangerous to say that all obese people are addicts, just like alcoholics. I wanted to do this because it is truly dangerous to "lump" all people together. And, whether we want to believe it or not, the cases in this thread stating addiction are coincidence.

For each subset of people I mentioned, there is research showing they are not carb, food or eating addicts or addicts, period.


Statistically, about 64-67% of any population may fall into one category or another. That leaves 33% that do not. 33% of the USA population that is obese is according to "medicalnewstoday.com" is roughly 31% of the total population that is roughly, 307 million. 31% of 307 million is roughly, 95 million people. 33% of 95 million people is at least 31 million people who do not fall into any addiction category.

Is it fair to tell them they are addicted when they are not? Is it fair to treat them for addiction at the risk of ignoring other factors? Addiction is extremely serious, I agree. But not everyone has it so not everyone needs extreme treatment. (This is for another conversation, but I don't believe VSG is extreme treatment).

OK -- Am I a an addict and if so, what am I addicted to? I'm biased. But am I able to get past my bias to know what I am and what I need? We'll see...


I know that when I was in the best physical condition (I could squat 500 pounds) including heart, blood pressure, etc., that was much better than "normal" people, I was still considered to be obese as were some others at the gym.

I also know that in the past 2 years (in which I regained 75 pounds) that I was in denial about my ability to "remember" how many calories were in many foods and especially fats. I stopped working out. I know I worked very hard and very long hours so I was sleep deprived and that this leads to having more calories than is necessary -- having more calories is much different than over eating. I believe I was addicted to work. During this time, I was also very stressed and in a highly protective state, in which I did not eat very much at all but everything I did eat tied itself to my waist.

I don't have much patience, never did. I like to think I do but the fact is, I don't. It takes a long time to lose weight. And dieting itself, is a cause of weight gain because of deprivation; not because of addiction.

I know the law of thermodynamics -- calories in, calories out -- but we don't know over what space of time it actually "works". We presume our body knows what a week is and so we get upset when we do not lose weight every 7 days. Dieting/deprivation is hard work and when the reward is not there, hell, it's well, hell!

I was in denial about everything that was happening to me and about how I was trying to cope. The inability to cope is not the same as having an addiction.

After studying my habits and understanding myself in terms of "how much time" do I have/am I willing to put into changing, I decided on WLS to help me: 1) learn new rules; and 2) apply these rules correctly; and 3) get a relatively fast reaction when I did so and when I did not.

I also did not want to be wholly dependent on any one organization for anything for a long period of time. I don't want to be labeled and categorized or give anyone the fuel to discriminate for or against me. I believe in getting help but then learning how to "work it on your own" or "do the right things, even if no one is watching".

I believe the preparation of food and the eating of food moulds other aspects of our lives. And there are "rules: for this. I needed some type of structure and a new set of rules because I know the old ones did not work for me. I needed different life skills....

I'll leave it up to you to decide. Am I in denial? Am I an addict?

Cheers!
Cheryl