Met With Dr. Hutcher

While we know there are a lot of people that have issues with this very topic, I have to ask.....do you hang out with a group that share the disposition?  I'm not trying to be smart, but I have a lot of friends who have had the surgery (both here ont he board and here in my office, my former office, etc.) and find that it is a very small number of them have actually had an issue with transfer addiction (alcohol, plastic surgery, spending all seem to be the main issues), or even letting go of the food addiction.

I mean, the majority of them seem to be pretty well adjusted to their lifestyle and are no where near as focused as I am, but are doing just fine.

So...what makes them so different?  Is it genetic/heredity?  Like alcoholism or drug addicition?

 

I would say yes, for the most part , some of these people are pretty dear to me .
I tend to think some of it is hereditary. Most of them had parents who drank or abused substances. Then there are others that their self esteem is so low , that the drugs and alcohol help to numb them . Most tell me , that they do not have to deal with their failuires when they drink .

When I look at their lives compared to mine , I tend to agree that I too am far more focused and am able to indentify if I am struggling.  I have reached out for help when I needed it , and forgo any abuse of alcohol .


Those that had the food addictions , most still use food as comfort . And even after talking to them about getting professional help , they tell me they are too embarrased . For most of them the weight gain is so great they just give up . Some have gotten help and see how detrimental it all is .
I just know that in my circle , there are so many that this is happening to . I read about it so much and have experienced in some way shape of form . I just pray that all of us continue to reach out to those professionals and let them hear our cry's . It is one that saddens me to no end . To watch my friends go through the DT's .. to get phone calls in the middle of the night for crys of help . It is all so sad .

Nat

Hey Jill,

I've been a patient at Commonwealth Surgeon's for more than 6 years now. My surgeon was Amy Martin has since left the practice and is in another in Montana where her family resides. Dr. Hutcher is fully aware of what is happening and in fact has commented very publicly on Addiction Transfer. Your concerns won't go unheard. The practice does and has always required a mental evaluation of all their patients before surgery to provide indicators (if possible) of any underlying issues before having WLS.

As I have been, I will continue to be in constant contact with Commonwealth Surgeons and I'm positive that we'll see changes made to the processes moving forward. In addition, I will help to report back the outcome of any conversations and findings I can get with regard to this subject. Its expressed consistently by our surgeon's office that addiction transfer while not likely in EVERY patient its on the rise and warnings should be heeded.

Hugs.........

I am glad there is not a hernia. 

Thank you for your commitment to the WLS community.  Doctors are wonderful, but majority of the time they just see the results and that is their concern, it is up to us as a community to bring the education and understanding of what you will be going through to the forefront.  I know for me personally, I did the metnal overhaul before I journyed to the knife.  I wanted my mind and spirit to be ready for my journey.  It is very overwhelming and if you are not ready or equipt properly with the right tools then it can be difficult!  BRAVO!

Natalie,

Wonderful news you're appointment yielded no more hernia(s)!

As with Jill & Tammy I personally take issue with Dr. Hutcher's responses. Being that I wasn't privy to the conversation I can only form an opinion from what you've typed here. My opinion is that Dr. Hutcher is very much aware of Addiction Transfer as he has participated in many, many articles/TV programs and answered numerous questions regarding Addiction Transfer. In fact, anyone can Google him and find several stories regarding Addiction Transfer and his thoughts and medical opinions on it.

I do agree more attention, time, effort, discussion and addiction transfer patients need to speak to those pre-op and newly post-op and of course further along in our journeys. More education - yes! More understanding - yes! I also agree that pre-ops can benefit from long term post-ops at pre-op classes, support group meetings etc. Research IS being put together on this subject but clinical studies take time, financial backing, patients willing participation, blind studies, committed individuals to coach, advise, support etc those facing addiction etc. This isn't something that's happened overnight. This is something that MANY folks have been facing for some time now.

I have marked concerns with some of the comments you made. I personally think that your statement: "I told him it really is a problem among our group and there has to be more ways for his team to identify . I know people are great actors , but it is so sad to see someone get this surgery and end up throwing up all day and scared to eat . They will die .. it is just a matter of time  . So many issues to think about long term ."  is right on as far as it is a problem among the WLS community (not sure what about the "our group" you are referring to).

However, the next sentence is, to me, completely inappropriate and an insult in that we (addiction transfer patients) are actors. We are NOT actors by ANY means. Addiction Transfer tore my world apart, turned it upside down, tossed and turned the boat I was on and really & truly sucked the life out of me. But, I fought it, I'm here, alive, by the grace of God and my truly loving support system. My buggas, my parents, Trey, Tom, fam & friends better yet life long connections. They are what keeps me going each and every day and I am NOT alone and never will be. I face a storm, my support system is RIGHT BESIDE ME. They are not in front of or behind me. I am a recovering alcoholic and am proud of the progress, changes and choices I've made. I want others to see that they too can do the same.

These are real, true issues with far reaching consequences one cannot understand unless they have personally come to deal with addiction transfer. It indicates to me that there are still folks that need a deeper education and understanding in our WLS community and outside of it as well; yourself included. It also indicates to me that while I commend you for wanting to bring this issue to light to Dr. Hutcher and others, forgoing others feelings ("I know people are great actors...."), struggles really damages folks likability to reach out and express their journey into what I describe as one of the most trying times in my life. The audience in which we speak is one of varied stages (whether it be physical, mental, emotional even spiritual) of the journey. We need to be very careful of the wording we use. It can very well make or break someone's decision to approach us for help.

I am committed to helping others to not only realize their addiction transfer issues but to bring to the table my own story and let others into the hardest time(s) in my life so that they realize they are not alone. There is help for anyone who is struggling and they need a safe, supportive place where they can come to get that help and support. We are one of the best arrays of folks pre-op and post-op with an amazing range of surgeries and issues and we can truly come together on so many important topics to help us get on the right path and not continue down or follow the wrong path.

I am so concerned about this that I'm personally requesting a meeting to speak with Dr. Hutcher to get his take on all this in person, other surgeons, nurses, patients, nuts, etc regarding this subject. The truth needs to be told to them and others about what is being mentioned regarding some folks opinions that there is a lack of enough information on Addiction Transfer that they provide. I think he'll be interested as well as Maya and others to know what feedback they are receiving (or lack of). I have once again referred to the Patient Handbook I received pre-op and the one I received just a few months ago and Commonwealth Surgeons mentions more addiction related issues in the revised/updated version. Kudos to them! Its a good start but can use some much needed help.

In closing, I've been extremely blessed to have personally overcome my addiction with/to alcohol following WLS. However, I take each day for the day it is and sometimes hour by hour. I struggled tremendously and really put myself and my personal struggles out here for all to see. It means THAT much to me that others have a voice, come to learn there is hope and help and that they seek it out and work to overcome their addictions.

This could not have been better said and I applaud you Kat for putting yourself and your personal life out there to help others. Myself being a recovering alcoholic many years sober know how hard and what a struggle you have day to day. But you have proven to yourself that it can be done and Im very proud of you for where you are today!!!  This addiction transfer is a serious thing with us all and your post was very well spoken. I to think you would be a great speaker for  Dr Hutchers office stand proud girl you have came a long way.

Let me clarify the term Actor .
I know personally people who went to Commonwealth , had no co-morbities , where underweight and put on weight to get this surgery . And now they are struggling with the transfer addictions .
I know personally people who had addiction problems , and hid it very well from the staff . Now they too are dealing with more transfer addictions as well as eating disorders.

I know a family member who to this day has not been back to Commonwealth for checkup in the 5 years since her surgery. She went through bulimia and is now in so much trouble , words cannot express . And she will tell you she is fine . That she has it undercontrol, she has called the office when the expressed concern, only to tell them all was well . Not to mention , she has not had a vitamin or calcium in 4 years. This to me is living a lie. 

The phrase " Actor " It was not meant to downgrade or undermine anyone's struggles . I am well aware how real they are . My point was to get to him that the number in my group is growing . By alarming numbers.

I can only hope that more people step up and speak out about this . You for one having gone through this have always been a great advocate . And I applaud your efforts. However, my comments where not meant to hurt you or anyone else that have struggled with this .
If it offended you , my apologies. I was merely trying to express those patients who - beat the system , get over .. ect . But  never did I intend on refering to ALL addicts as actors . Just not the truth or not in my nature . Regardless of how anyone feels about me . I am a lot more caring and loving then that .

Natalie

Like you, I know people who beat the system to get their surgery and struggle.  They kept their food demons and did not partake in the lifestyle change.  But, it's not a transfer addiction, it's lack of participation.

But, your family member with the problems really needs to seek out medical attention.  Have you guys done an intervention on them?  Sounds like it really needs to happen, and quick, for their own safety.  especially if they are addicted to pills and bulimic.

 

Natalie,

This isn't a personal attack on you. This is about an incredibly important topic of discussion that has nothing what so ever to do with how anyone might or might not feel about you. Drawing attention to one specific person does not do this justice. This is about a group of people; not your group but OUR weight loss surgery community (not leaving out those who struggle with addiction who haven't had WLS).

Addiction Transfer has been growing by alarming numbers for several years now. I have been trying so hard to bring this to the mainstream since first coming to deal with it. I was NOT well received in the past when I brought this subject to light. That has not and will never stop me from continuing to share my experiences and reaching out to others. Its not just about me. Its about those who are scared, drinking, shooting up, snorting, using, abusing, eating, not eating, shopping, spending what they don't have, exercising too much/not enough etc. Insert the addiction as the list is long and painful.

I'm just one of many, many nameless, faceless people who are struggling with addiction transfer. But, I've been a voice and will continue to be one and if it means I have to continue enduring remarks, comments, gossip etc then so be it. I will gladly take any and all heat I get along with all the wonderful opportunities, support, encouragement and most of all love that I receive. If I can help any person to face their demons and not have to do it alone then I will do what it takes.

The above being said I'm sorry to hear about your family member who is struggling with their demons but at the same time there are steps that can be taken to help them. However, they have to reach the point where they can draw the line in the sand and help themselves to get help. Constant support and love are key components to getting them to see that. You mention personally knowing folks who are going through this. Don't we all? Encourage then to reach out and really and truly provide them with as many tools as you can to help them do that.

I'm struggling with this, this pm and frankly I'm very concerned and am looking forward to talking with not only Dr. Hutcher but others regarding the seriousness of this and other WLS related issues. I think no I know its time for actions to speak louder than our words.

Hi,
I'm new to the OH Boards.  I've been reading only until I saw this post. I wanted to comment. 

Transer Addiction is a serious issue with most WLS patients.  I believe that the WLS patient who does not have some degree of this illness is the exception rather than the rule.  If we are honest - it was a Food Addiction that got most of us to the point of needing WLS.  To believe that having a surgical procedure, changed eating habits and exercise are enough to "cure" an addiction is not realistic.  If someone is an alcoholic, they have to do much more than just stop drinking to recover (as Kat and Melissa state above).  

We want WLS to get our lives back, but now many go back to continually eating stuff they know is unhealthy for them, or continue smoking to keep their weight down or drink alcohol to fit in with the "normal crowd".   Those folks are the actors I believe that Natalie is talking about. 

Natalie, you are right to keep this subject in focus. Kat, I so admire your willingness to open your life for all to see the struggle you are going through.  Melissa, you too have shared so much here in an effort to help others.