OT: Do you want a public healthcare option for all?
(deactivated member)
on 7/1/09 12:30 am - DFW area, TX
on 7/1/09 12:30 am - DFW area, TX
(deactivated member) has deleted this message.
Against and here is why.
1. I figure if the government is running it, it will be run as effieciently as other government run programs. So if you think SS, medicare, medicaid, welfare, is run effieciently then you may be pleased with national health care management. I think there is a lot of corruption in those programs and don't see why health care would be any different.
2. National Health care is a misnomer. It will not gaurantee health care, only health insurance.
If you look at the statistics in countries that have national health care now, you will find that very low percentages of people have any kind of wellness care. Most women don't go for yearly pap smears or mamograms. Most men do not get prostrates checked. Health care is not convenient so unless they are sick they skip it. Machines like cat scans and MRI etc are not available in every hospital. That is considered duplication, so if you need a cat or an MRI you have to travel to the nearest hospital that has one and it might not be close. The cancer death rate is much higher than here in the US.
3. Personal experience. A very close friend of mine is from Britan. In Britan if you want health care that is timely you must purchase private insurance. This means you get to see your doctor when you need too. If you do not hae private insurance you wait . This insurance is not cheap and it ends up being a situation of the rich get good health care and everyone else gets what is left over. My friends father had symptoms that would have a gastro guy in this country ordering a colonoscopy stat. He had to wait 11 months to get the test done. In order to not duplicate services only a limited amount of facilities performed this test. Lots of people few facilities. By the time he got the exam he was in stage 4 colon cancer. He was treated to the best of their ability and then sent home to die. He was in great pain but of course there was mediction to keep him comfortable. Trouble was he was on a waiting list for the pump that delivered the morphine. My friend sat by her father's bedside and watch him die over a 4 day period in agony with all the morphine need to ease his pain sitting inches away from her and no way to administer it. He died before a pump became available.
My husband works for a company whose employee list reads like the United Nations. No one I have spoken to that has come from a country with national health care liked the system.
We need health reform in this country but I do not think this is the answer.
1. I figure if the government is running it, it will be run as effieciently as other government run programs. So if you think SS, medicare, medicaid, welfare, is run effieciently then you may be pleased with national health care management. I think there is a lot of corruption in those programs and don't see why health care would be any different.
2. National Health care is a misnomer. It will not gaurantee health care, only health insurance.
If you look at the statistics in countries that have national health care now, you will find that very low percentages of people have any kind of wellness care. Most women don't go for yearly pap smears or mamograms. Most men do not get prostrates checked. Health care is not convenient so unless they are sick they skip it. Machines like cat scans and MRI etc are not available in every hospital. That is considered duplication, so if you need a cat or an MRI you have to travel to the nearest hospital that has one and it might not be close. The cancer death rate is much higher than here in the US.
3. Personal experience. A very close friend of mine is from Britan. In Britan if you want health care that is timely you must purchase private insurance. This means you get to see your doctor when you need too. If you do not hae private insurance you wait . This insurance is not cheap and it ends up being a situation of the rich get good health care and everyone else gets what is left over. My friends father had symptoms that would have a gastro guy in this country ordering a colonoscopy stat. He had to wait 11 months to get the test done. In order to not duplicate services only a limited amount of facilities performed this test. Lots of people few facilities. By the time he got the exam he was in stage 4 colon cancer. He was treated to the best of their ability and then sent home to die. He was in great pain but of course there was mediction to keep him comfortable. Trouble was he was on a waiting list for the pump that delivered the morphine. My friend sat by her father's bedside and watch him die over a 4 day period in agony with all the morphine need to ease his pain sitting inches away from her and no way to administer it. He died before a pump became available.
My husband works for a company whose employee list reads like the United Nations. No one I have spoken to that has come from a country with national health care liked the system.
We need health reform in this country but I do not think this is the answer.
"This insurance is not cheap and it ends up being a situation of the rich get good health care and everyone else gets what is left over. "
As apposed to a situation where the rich get decent healthcare and the rest get nothing at all...? I'll take the former.
As apposed to a situation where the rich get decent healthcare and the rest get nothing at all...? I'll take the former.
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Against.
First of all it would devistate the economy if you close down all the insurance companies. That is a lot of job loss.
Second, right now a lot of people don't have healthcare now because they are rolling the dice. Their job offers it, but they don't want to pay the premiums. They are gambling with their lives.
Third, we have Medicare and Medicaid already for people who qualify.
Some of the arguments sound as ridiculous as a paper I submitted in 7th grade. I did a paper on euthanasia. I felt wrote everyone should be put to death at 65. It would save a bunch of money in social security. Didn't go over too well, as the teacher was 62 at the time.
First of all it would devistate the economy if you close down all the insurance companies. That is a lot of job loss.
Second, right now a lot of people don't have healthcare now because they are rolling the dice. Their job offers it, but they don't want to pay the premiums. They are gambling with their lives.
Third, we have Medicare and Medicaid already for people who qualify.
Some of the arguments sound as ridiculous as a paper I submitted in 7th grade. I did a paper on euthanasia. I felt wrote everyone should be put to death at 65. It would save a bunch of money in social security. Didn't go over too well, as the teacher was 62 at the time.
GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!!!
Well and then there are those of us who are self employed... and who have to pay $1000/mon for a whole family to be covered... or more if one of them has a preexisting condition.. and guess what? that insurance is crap. Covers nothing. Does nothing.
There are plenty of tax paying, hard working, good incomed people who need a better choice for healthcare...
and the absolute CRIMINAL practices by these insurance agencies in the name of capitalism is DISGUSTING.
There are plenty of tax paying, hard working, good incomed people who need a better choice for healthcare...
and the absolute CRIMINAL practices by these insurance agencies in the name of capitalism is DISGUSTING.
I am for it! I think that the US can learn from the mistakes of other countries and not follow in thier footsteps. You say you don't want to pay for those that can't afford it well you already are...you say that low income families already have coverage through programs like medicare and medicade well have you looked at the requirements to even qualify for those programs! most middle class families can't afford to have some one in the family get sick because they can't afford the treatment and they can't afford for that person to miss work...but they make "to much" money to qualify for other programs. I have a friend that I teach with (in a small district that pays what they can) and her husband works for a small electrical company well it came out that thier daughter was born deaf and the hearing aids were going to cost about 5000 bucks each. It also came out that inssurance wasn't going to pay for it. The 5000 each was thier cost. Now they tried to apply for medicaid..didn't qualify..tried other programs and every program said they made to much money! And let me tell you they make enough to support thier family but weren't going to be able to pay for the hearing aids until the community came together and raised most of the money for them. So those of you against it think that this 3 year old girl has to suffer because her family probably makes 65000 a year and is raising 4 kids without any state aid and when they needed the extra help the state wouldn't help. But guess what if she continued to not treat her hearing problem guess what the state would pay for it in the end because she would have serious educational problems.
I am for a well structured health care program that is available to everyone! I teach and I have to pay over $100 a month for just me and if I had to pay for my family it would cost me around $500 a month. You think that this is the best deal the state of texas could get for its teachers! Come on there is a huge problem with the health care now and we are paying for it! So much of our debt in this country is from the current health care system. If people were able to get preventive care then there would be less health problems. We all know that people that are educated about their health are generally healthier. We need to invest in our people and then we will get the money back in the long run...If people are healthier then they will work longer thus pay more taxes...
And on the party side WHO CARES if you are republican or democrat! IT isn't an issue of party it is about the health of our country! Get over it!
That is my rant I guess.....
Tonya
I am for a well structured health care program that is available to everyone! I teach and I have to pay over $100 a month for just me and if I had to pay for my family it would cost me around $500 a month. You think that this is the best deal the state of texas could get for its teachers! Come on there is a huge problem with the health care now and we are paying for it! So much of our debt in this country is from the current health care system. If people were able to get preventive care then there would be less health problems. We all know that people that are educated about their health are generally healthier. We need to invest in our people and then we will get the money back in the long run...If people are healthier then they will work longer thus pay more taxes...
And on the party side WHO CARES if you are republican or democrat! IT isn't an issue of party it is about the health of our country! Get over it!
That is my rant I guess.....
Tonya
"Do or do not...there is no try" -Yoda
I wanted to comment about the "playing God" argument. Choices are made every day by insurance companies and hospitals to deny treatment based on economics, so that is nothing new.
I count my mother, my brother and my oldest son among the working poor who can't afford health insurance coverage. My Mom is no longer with us, but she was self-employed and barely making it. She actually received decent medical care and the taxpayers paid for it, so like I said - somebody else is ALREADY paying for the non-insured. She made too much money to qualify for Medicaid, as do my son and brother.
As for the insurance company jobs going away - well, we pay their salaries through our premiums. Perhaps they could be re-trained to move into the medical field so the money we are paying is going towards actual treatment (and extra diagnostic machines) so we wouldn't have to wait so long for certain procedures like they do in other countries. Better than our hard-earned money paying for them to process paperwork.
I count my mother, my brother and my oldest son among the working poor who can't afford health insurance coverage. My Mom is no longer with us, but she was self-employed and barely making it. She actually received decent medical care and the taxpayers paid for it, so like I said - somebody else is ALREADY paying for the non-insured. She made too much money to qualify for Medicaid, as do my son and brother.
As for the insurance company jobs going away - well, we pay their salaries through our premiums. Perhaps they could be re-trained to move into the medical field so the money we are paying is going towards actual treatment (and extra diagnostic machines) so we wouldn't have to wait so long for certain procedures like they do in other countries. Better than our hard-earned money paying for them to process paperwork.
DITTO that!
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I looked up some stats to compare our country with Britain and France since they both have socialized medicine. The only category we were better in was heart disease deaths and we only beat Britain.
Cancer deaths (per 100,000 people):
US: 321.0
France: 286.1
Britain: 253.5
Heart disease deaths:
Britain: 122.0
US: 106.5
France: 39.8
Duration of hospitalisation (days):
France: 8.5
Britain: 6.9
US: 5.8
Infant mortatlity rate (deaths/1,000 live births)
US: 6.3
Britain: 4.93
France: 3.36
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