KIDNEY STONE INFO & MEGADOSING PROTEIN

DON'T REMEMBER IF I POSTED THIS FROM OUR MUSC NUTRITIONIST, MS LAURA ... BUT, THIS HAS TO DO WITH WHEN MS BRITTY & I WERE QUESTIONING ABOUT MEGADOSING ON PROTEIN ... & WHEN THE LADY AT THE VITAMIN SHOPPE SAID THAT IT IS BETTER TO TAKE PROTEIN IN SMALLER DOSES THAN IN A MEGADOSE ALL AT ONCE. DR BYRNE AGREES ... SMALLER & MORE TIMES A DAY vs LARGER & ONLY A COUPLE TIMES A DAY OF PROTEIN INTAKE. THIS IS MS LAURA'S ANSWER FOLLOWED BY MY ORIGINAL E-MAIL TO HER. I FINALLY DROPPED A FEW POUNDS MORE ... AM BEGINNING AN EXERCISE PROGRAM ... EXERCISE BIKE, & NICK & I ARE GONNA SEE IF WE CAN DO BILLY BLANK'S VIDEO (THE TAE BO GUY) WITHOUT KILLING OURSELVES. MY WEIGHT HAS MOVED A TINY BIT ... OVER ALL 2-MONTH STALL/SLOW WEIGHT LOSS PERIOD ... DOWN FROM AROUND 222.80 #s WITH A 57.00 # OVERALL LOSS TO ... SAT, THE 18th ... 215.40 FOR THE 6th DAY ... AARRGGHH!!! SUN, THE 19th ... 213.80 FINALLY! THIS MORNING, THE 20th ... 213.60 ... DOWN 66.20 #s GOD BLESS DAWN & NICK From: Laura Nance Date: 03/16/06 14:10:29 To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: PROTEIN Hi, I am so sorry this has taken so long. Check out this website for information on kidney stones http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/kidney-stones/DS00282/DSECTION=3 I'm under the impression that the amount of protein you'd have to take in for this to happen is excessive and I don't think that you would be able to get this much in after bypass surgery. The other thing is you're more at risk if you've had stones in the past, if this is the case then you'd want to know what kind of stone and take caution. The protein thing is very confusing.There are a lot of websites that say >30 grams is not absorbed but I really think it's individual-depends on stomach size, calorie intake, etc. If you have a favorite protein bar you eat and it happens to have 40 grams, go for it. I think it also comes down to calories, if you're not giving your body enough calories for energy, it will use protein. So in light of post surgery diet, which is usually low in calories, your body will use some protein for energy anyway and not all protein you injest will be used as you intended: immune function, lean muscle mass, etc. Your body acutally only absorbs ~90% protein from animal sources and only about 70-80% from non animal sources. So not all is going to be absorbed regardless of the number on the package. It probably is best to space out your protein but the jury is out on specific numbers. Have a wonderful day!! Laura Marie Nance MA, RD, CDE Clinical Dietitian >>> "Dawn & Nick" 03/02/06 04:30PM >>> HERE'S HOW THE PROTEIN ISSUE CAME UP ... I WAS ORDERING POWER CRUNCH HIGH PROTEIN/LOW CARB BARS AT THE VITAMIN SHOPPE ON ASHELY PHOSPHATE & RIVERS IN N CHARLESTON. I HAD BEEN ON A 5 WEEK STALL & EVERYONE WAS TELLING ME THAT MY PROTEIN & CALORIES WERE TOO LOW. I ASKED THE LADY AT THE V S HOW MUCH PROTEIN THE BODY CAN DIGEST&/OR USE AT ONE TIME ... IS THERE A LIMIT ESPECIALLY FOR WLS PATIENTS? CONSIDERING YOU CAN EAT TOO MANY CARBS, FATS & CALORIES & YOUR BODY TURNS THEM TO FAT ... &, YOU CAN TAKE TOO MUCH OF ANY VITAMIN, MINERAL OR SUPPLEMENT & YOUR BODY WILL RID ITSELF OF THE EXTRA THROUGH YOUR URINE IN MANY CASES ... SO, WHAT WAS THE LIMIT ON PROTEIN (THESE PRODUCTS ARE SO EXPENSIVE SO I DON'T WANT TO WASTE THEM OR CAUSE MY BODY HARM BY "MEGADOSING") TO GET THE BEST RESULTS FROM THEM? SHE SAID THAT IF YOU CONSISTENTLY MEGADOSE ON PROTEIN (MAYBE SHE MEANT PROCESSED PROTEIN PRODUCTS) THAT YOUR BODY CANNOT USE ALL OF IT & THAT IT CAN CAUSE KIDNEY STONES (MORE IN "NORMAL" DIGESTIVE TRACTS THAN IN POUCH BABIES). SHE SAID THAT WITH PROTEIN PRODUCTS LIKE BARS, SHAKES, PUDDINGS & DRINKS ... THE BEST WAY TO TAKE YOUR PROTEIN IS 25 -30 GRAMS AT A TIME EVERY 3 - 4 HOURS AS A WLS PATIENT ... NOT THAT YOU CANNOT TAKE IN 40 GRAMS, BUT THAT THE BODY DOES NOT PROCESS THAT MUCH AT ONE TIME IN A WLS PATIENT (OR, SO I UNDERSTOOD HER TO SAY). IS THERE A DIFFERENCE IN MEAT PROTEIN vs PROCESSED PROTEIN PRODUCTS AS FAR AS HOW WE DIGEST, PROCESS & USE IN OUR BODIES WITH OUR POUCHES, MALABSORBTION & INTESTIONAL DIGESTIVE PROCESS WITH LESS ACIDS ??? ... &, IS THERE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN POUCHES vs THOSE WITH FULL STOMACHS AS FAR AS HOW MUCH PROTEIN WE SHOULD TAKE IN AT ANY ONE TIME vs DOES SPREADING OUT THE INTAKE OF PROTEIN IN SMALLER AMOUNTS ALLOW FOR BETTER DIGESTION & USAGE OF THE PROTEIN? AS FOR ME, WHEN I INCREASED MY CALORIES & PROTEIN, MY STALL BROKE ... &, WHEN I EAT SEVERAL SMALLER AMOUNTS OF PROTEIN THROUGHOUT THE DAY INSTEAD OF ONLY A COUPLE LARGER AMOUNTS, I FEEL SO MUCH BETTER WITH MUCH MORE ENERGY. THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP ON THIS, MS LAURA. GOD BLESS YOU ... DAWN & NICK (Debora A D Nash)

Hey, That is what I thought Dawn. I thought the little bit of food we can take in, we cannot get enough protein in to take in enough to cause stones. I take in about 3 times a day, and probably not enough. I also am slack on my water, but I am doing better. I have never had stones before, but I have had chronic kidney problems, never stones, so was I precluded to this even without surgery?? One would think maybe, but the urologist said, who knows. He did say most of us walk around dehydrated and that might have more to do with it, and the fact that we lose so fast, and it all gets metabolized somewhere, kidneys mainly, so that stands to reason not flushing enough, stones...or other problems. I have had chronic kidney infections, UTI's and a spot of necrosis on my kidney since my late teens early 20's so I probably was waiting on stones, and the fact that I had been so active, and constipated...also a lack of fluids, and pushing so hard, it made the stone pop out of my kidney...gross, but true, so that is my specific reason. If I keep up the water, probably not stones again...and on the spirtual side of things, the enemy is mad and me, and attacked me right after I upped our prayer team at church. I know it was more of a spiritual attack in my case than anything else, and I am not moved. I walk by Faith Not By Sight or by what I feel, so if that is all the devil has, then bring it on, give it your best shot. I still will be praising God no matter what he slings at me. Deborah

THE THING THAT CAUGHT MY EYE WAS THAT NO MATTER WHAT PROTEIN WE EAT, WE ONLY USE ABOUT 70-90% OF WHAT WE TAKE IN. SO, IT WOULD SEEM THAT WE'RE ALL GETTING LESS PROTEIN THAN WE TRULY NEED BY 10-30% EVEN IF WE EAT THE PROPER AMOUNT OF PROTEIN NEEDED FOR OURELVES. A LOT OF THE PEOPLE ON THE OCTOBER BOARD ARE UPPING THEIR PROTEIN TO AROUND 90-100 GRAMS A DAY WHICH WOULD ACTUALLY COVER THE LOSS OF PROTEIN THAT NATURALLY OCCURS IN OUR DIGESTION PROCESS. THEY ARE ALSO UPPING THEIR FLUIDS TO 100 OZs A DAY. OH MY GOSH! BUT, THOSE WHO DO THIS HAVE FANTASTIC RESULTS & SEEM TO FEEL BETTER THAN THE REST OF US. I'VE INCREASED BOTH MY PROTEINS & FLUIDS (NOT ENOUGH) & HAVE SEEN AN INCREASE IN MY ENERGY LEVEL SO I'M THINKING THERE IS SOMETHING TO THIS ISSUE OF MALABSORBTION & OUR BODIES NOT USING ALL THE PROTEIN WE INGEST. AS FOR THE FLUIDS, IT MAKES SENSE THAT IF WE DON'T FLUSH OUR KIDNEYS, ESPECIALLY WITH ALL THE CHANGES IN OUR DIGESTION, THAT WE ARE GONNA HAVE TROUBLE. BEFORE SURERY, I HAD A CAN OF SODA IN MY HAND 24/7 ... NOW, I HAVE TO FORCE MYSELF TO REMEMBER TO DRINK ... & EAT. FUNNY CHANGES, HUH?!? HOPE YOU'RE FEELING BETTER, MS DEBORAH! GOD BLESS YOU DAWN & NICK