"HITTING THE WALL" QUESTION

I HOPE YOU DON'T MIND, MS KIMBERLY, BUT I COPIED YOUR POST & PLACED IT IN MY PROFILE ALONG WITH ANOTHER ONE I RECEIVED ... I WEIGH 171 WITH MY WEIGHT FLUCTUATING BETWEEN 169 - 174. I EAT BETWEEN 1,000 - 1,200 CALORIES A DAY WHETHER I'M EATING PACKAGED PROTEIN PRODUCTS OR REGULAR FOOD. MY HUSBAND SUGGESTED THE SAME THING BUT I WAS TERRIFIED TO EAT MORE CALORIES & MAYBE GAIN WEIGHT. I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DIGESTING FOOD vs SHAKES & PUDDINGS. MAKES SENSE WHY SOME SURGEONS WON'T ALLOW THEIR GASTRIC BYPASS PATIENTS TO USE PACKAGED PROTEIN PRODUCTS. I USE THEM BECAUSE IT KEEPS ME FROM OVEREATING & FROM CHEATING. WELL, I HAD THE EXRERCISE BACKWARDS ... I THOUGHT CARDIO WAS BETTER THAN WEIGHT TRAINING TO LOSE WEIGHT ... LEARN SOMETHING NEW EVERY DAY! OH MY GOSH ... BY YOUR EQUATION, I NEED NO LESS THAN 1,710 CALORIES A DAY UP TO 2,565 A DAY ... I'M EATING 1,000 - 1,200 A DAY. HOLY MOLY, MAYBE I'M IN STARVATION MODE??? I'M GONNA HAVE TO TOTALLY CHANGE MY WAY OF THINKING ON CALORIES ... I WAS TOLD IN THE BEGINNING NEVER TO GO OVER 1,200 CALORIES A DAY & EAT NO MORE THAN A CUP OF FOOD AT ANY ONE TIME. THANKS SO MUCH FOR THE INFORMATION. I WILL DEFINITELY PUT IT TO USE. GOD BLESS YOU ... DAWN & NICk

I use protein shakes and bars as well to supplement, but the optimum thing is to get it from real food. I'm just not much of a meat eater. I just finished eating egg beaters though for breakfast! Cardio is good to help lose weight, but if your diet is right, then it's not really as important as weight training. You and I are currently the same weight but people guess me to weigh anywhere between 130-140. My lowest weight was 158 and now I've got people telling me I look better that I've put a little weight back on. Take in the fact that I'm only 5'6" and it's a little strange. They tell me that I looked sick and unproportioned to my body. But then my plastic surgeon (PS) tells me he won't operate on me in October unless I lose those stinkin' lbs again! I like my PS better... And that 1200 calorie myth is out there. Even my trainer was talking to me the other day about struggling to lose weight and I asked her how many calories she was eating. She told me 1200. Well she weighs more than me and I'm currently going for about 1800 calories a day. I told her she needed to up them. It was like a little lightbulb went on for her and she was like why didn't she figure that out. She told me she needed to pay me that day! She's now started dropping weight again.

I LOVE MEAT & SEAFOOD TOOOOOO MUCH, SO I PURPOSELY USE PACKAGED PROTEIN TO CURB MYSELF SO I DON'T OVEREAT. I'M CHECKING OUT THE LOCAL GYMS TOMORROW. YEAH, NICK USED TO WORK WITH WEIGHTS & WHEN I TOLD HIM WHAT YOU WERE SHARING WITH ME ABOUT EXERCISE, HE WAS IN TOTAL AGREEMENT WITH YOU. I'M GONNA BE LUCKY IF I DON'T DROP AFTER 5 MINUTES ON THE TREADMILL, LET ALONE PICK UP SOMETHING HEAVIER THAN MY GLASS! I HAVE HEARD THAT A LOT ... THAT WE LOOK BETTER WITH A LITTLE MORE WEIGHT ON US. OUR DAUGHTER HAS ANOREXIC TENDENCIES SO SHE ALWAYS WANTS TO BE THINNER, BUT WHEN SHE'S IN THE LOW 120s, SHE LOOKS HARD & OLDER THAN SHE IS. WHEN SHE PUTS ON 5 OR 10 POUNDS, SHE LOOKS FABULOUS & HEALTHY BUT WE CAN'T CONVINCE HER OF THAT. MY FACE HAS AGED REALLY BAD THROUGH THE WEIGHT LOSS ... BUT, I'M STILL HEAVY ENOUGH THAT I COULD STAND TO LOSE 20 - 30 #s. I HAD ORIGINALLY WANTED TO BE 126 (Ideal weight for 5' 2 1/2") BUT NOW, I THINK I WILL LOOK LIKE A SKELETON, SO I'M SHOOTING FOR DR BYRNE'S GOAL OF 140 ... WE'LL SEE WHEN I GET THERE. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ALL YOUR INFORMATION, MS KIMBERLY ... PLEASE KEEP POSTING. YOU HAVE SO MUCH EXPERIENCE & WISOM THAT WE COULD ALL BENEFIT FROM! GOD BLESS YOU ... DAWN & NICK

Let me get something straight on the amount of calories I need to ingest daily to go into fat burning mode ... Do I use my current body weight (171) or the weight I want to be (140)????

Use current BW and then as your BW drops then your caloric needs drops in relation. What those calories are depends on whether you're trying to lose or whether you're trying to lose. I'm by no means the expert (my little disclaimer) but I've been doing a lot of research in the past few months and have found some good info. I'm primarily hitting up weight lifting web sites, but if you look at their bodies and the excellent shape they're in, they have to be doing something right. There's a lot more out there, but here's one you can check out for some info. You have to join if you want to hit the message boards, but there's a lot of good info you can get without joining. http://burnthefatinnercircle.com/

..sorry meant whether you're trying to lose or maintain. It's too early in the morning.

JUST GOT A RESPONSE FROM MY NUTRITIONIST REGARDING INCREASING OUR CALORIES (I generally eat between 1,000 - 1,200 per day) ... THE ANSWER SEEMS TO BE THAT OUR METABOLISM IS CHANGED SO WE DON'T NEED TO INCREASE OUR CALORIES TO LOSE WEIGHT. MY E-MAIL TO NUTRITIONIST ... >>> "Dawn & Nick - XANGO" 04/18/07 01:42PM >>> Hey Ms Debbie ... My question is ... am I getting too FEW calories/protein a day? My husband & several ladies on the board (several who are working with personal trainers) thought that at 1,000-1,200 calories/75 grams protein a day, I might be in "Starvation Mode" & that is why I'm not losing weight. I was told that to be in "Fat-Burning Mode", you must have 10-11 calories per pound of weight which would be a whopping 1,690-1,859 calories a day for my weight of 169, an increase of somewhere between 659-690 calories daily. They also say that for "Maintenance", you should eat around 15 calories per pound per day - Holy Cow, that would be 2,100 calories at my goal weight of 140. Does all this apply to Gastric Bypass patients as well? I look at my calories, but I really focus on my proteins, white carbs & sugars more - high protein with low white carbs & sugars. MY NUTRITIONIST'S RESPONSE. Hi No, you are not eating too few calories either. These numbers you wrote do not apply to people with a weight history such as yours which changes your metabolism and needs. Start exercising and add some veggies and attend POSTOP and Transition Nutrition and keep up with the food diary. You should expect a weight loss of about 1/2 lb per week on this diet + exercise. Debbie THE "DIET" SHE IS SPEAKING OF IS THAT I STARTED A MODIFIED LIQUID FAST ON MONDAY WHICH IS BELOW. I'M NOT, NOT, NOT RECOMMENDING THIS FOR ANYONE, BUT IT IS WORKING FOR ME. LOW CALORIES, LOW SUGARS/CARBS & VERY, VERY HIGH PROTEIN (ALL of it is packaged protein - no regular food). I'M BACK DOWN TO MY LOWEST WEIGHT (169.4), WHICH I HAVEN'T BEEN SINCE 1/27/2007. NOW WE'LL SEE IF I KEEP LOSING. MON: 172.2 #s 6 water/protein shakes 540 cals 0 sugars 138 gr protein 1 protein pudding 100 cals 0 sugars 20 gr protein 1 protein bar 200 cals 5 sugars 13 gr protein 2 ounces Xango - mangosteen fruit juice (for pain relief & energy) 20 cals 2 sugars 0 gr protein TOTALS: 860 cals 7 sugars 171 gr protein 48 ounces water in shakes VITAMINS, MINERALS & SUPPLEMENTS PRESCRIBED MEDICATION TUES: 171.8 #s = < 0.4 > 6 water/protein shakes 540 cals 0 sugars 138 gr protein 2 protein bars 400 cals 10 sugars 26 gr protein 2 ounces Xango - mangosteen fruit juice (for pain relief & energy) 20 cals 2 sugars 0 gr protein TOTALS: 960 cals 12 sugars 164 gr protein 48 ounces water in shakes VITAMINS, MINERALS & SUPPLEMENTS PRESCRIBED MEDICATION WED: 169.4 = < 2.4 = 2.8 total > ... FINALLY ... I'm at my lowest weight again since 1/27/2007!!! I'm planning on eating ... 6 water/protein shakes 540 cals 0 sugars 138 gr protein 2 protein bars 400 cals 10 sugars 26 gr protein 1 protein pudding 100 cals 0 sugars 20 gr protein 2 ounces Xango - mangosteen fruit juice (for pain relief & energy) 20 cals 2 sugars 0 gr protein TOTALS: 1060 cals 12 sugars 184 gr protein 48 ounces water in shakes 20 ounces water w/ SF Crystal Lite 68 ounces VITAMINS, MINERALS & SUPPLEMENTS PRESCRIBED MEDICATION

I'm with you, Ms Dawn!!! I hit my wall at 9 months. I have been told by Dr. Ross's program director that my "window of opportunity" is closing. We are basically normal, and to lose weight, we have to watch what we are eating (eat enough, not too much and no grazing) and exercise. She said that, while protein bars and nuts are good, I just need to not have them on a daily basis. I believe in the beginning these were a good supplement for me, but as time has gone on, they are triggering too many cravings for me. She also said that I needed to up my protein, but do it with real food (chicken, beef, fish, etc.). She said these foods will stay with me longer (I feel hunger all the time). And, along with you, I know that exercise is key. I have an appointment tomorrow at the gym with the trainer dude!!! Then there is the rules of the pouch that we need to remember. I believe if I follow when and how much water I am drinking, I wouldn't feel the hunger as much. Even with the "window of opportunity" closing, we still have a tool....and it will still work if we follow the rules!! Hugs, Dianne

AT LEAST WE ALL KNOW THAT THIS IS COMMON ... SOME STOP LOSING WEIGHT EARLIER, SOME LATER ... BUT THERE COMES A TIME WHEN IT DOES OCCUR. I GOT MUCH THE SAME INFO FROM MY NUTRITIONIST ... DON'T DESPAIR LADIES & GENTS ... IT IS POSSIBLE TO STILL LOSE WEIGHT, BUT IT WILL BE VERY, VERY HARD & WE REALLY DON'T HAVE THE LUXURY OF CHEATING AT ALL IF WE WANT TO SEE MORE PROGRESS AT THIS POINT. THIS IS WHAT I'VE FOUND OUT ... TIME HAS RUN OUT FOR EXCUSES (I'm very guilty of this in regards to exercising!) HIGH PROTEIN - as long as you spread it out over the day ... & especially if you are exercising, you will do so much better with A LOT more protein than the normal 65 -75 grams a day. AFTER you eat normal food proteins FIRS****er/protein shakes (under 120 calories each) is a low calorie way to increase your protein, & even using water instead of milk, they really keep you from feeling hungry. I was surprised at this ... water/protein shakes really do curb your appetite. LOW WHITE CARBS & SUGARS - AS LOW AS YOU CAN POSSIBLY KEEP THEM ... Sorry ladies & gents, this means NO ALCOHOL which is sugar based. Keep your sugars around NO MORE THAN 5 grams per serving - be sure to keep tabs on white carbs as they turn to sugar in your blood stream. If you're only eating 2 or 3 french fries, there's absolutely no reason not to simply make the choice not to eat ANY french fries at all. HEALTHY CHOICES, CHOICES, CHOICES! WATER, WATER, WATER & SF FLUIDS ... This will flush out the broken-down fat particles & toxins, & cleanse & protect your kidneys. IT IS NOT AN OPTION! No less than 64 ounces & upwards of 100 ounces is fabulous. I've started tracking my liquids to help me drink more. Speaking of "tracking" ... It is a pain, but put the effort into keeping A FOOD & EXERCISE JOURNAL!!! I just started one so my Nutritionist could look it over & I found that my calories were much lower than I realized, but my proteins were higher than I thought ... so I've increased my calories & am still getting the benefits of the higher protein. HAVE YOUR PERSONAL TRAINER, SURGEON, DIETICIAN (sp?) OR NUTRITIONIST LOOK OVER YOUR JOURNAL TO HELP POINT OUT WHERE YOU NEED TO CHANGE SOMETHING FOR BETTER RESULTS! KIMBERLY H HAS BROUGHT UP THE INTERESTING SUBJECT OF NOT EATING ENOUGH CALORIES WHICH THROWS OUR BODY INTO "STARVATION MODE", THUS YOUR BODY WILL NOT ALLOW YOU TO LOSE WEIGHT. BODY BUILDERS KNOW THIS & SO DO PERSONAL TRAINERS ... IF YOU DON'T EAT ENOUGH CALORIES, YOUR BODY WILL HOLD ONTO EVERY CALORIE IT GETS. ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE EXERCISING, YOU MUST HAVE MORE CALORIES & MORE PROTEIN. KIMBERLY GAVE US A GOOD RULE OF THUMB ... 10 - 11 CALORIES PER POUND PER DAY FOR FAT-BURNING. I have asked my Nutritionist if there is any difference with the caloric needs of Gastric Bypass patients & will let you know what she says. PLANNING ... (Thanks to Ms Dianne) ... You know you're going out to work, or to run errands, or going somewhere where you will be tempted ... P-L-A-N AHEAD OF TIME ... this is a GREAT TIME TO USE PACKAGED PROTEIN PRODUCTS. Take some water, tea or SF Crystal Lite along. PACK YOUR OWN LUNCH - quit buying out of vending machines, or at fast foods, or at restuarants. IF YOU ARE TEMPTED BY GOODIES AT WORK OR AT HOME, THEN BUY SF or NSA GOODIES & KEEP SOME AT HOME, IN YOUR CAR & IN YOUR PURSE. My nutritionist also said that we need 2 cups of QUALITY veges a day (I only get a couple bites! - beans, salads (not iceberg lettuce which has NO nutrition at all), brightly colored veges - NOOOOO, NOT WHITE VEGES LIKE POTATOS OR RICE. VEGES, VEGES, VEGES! WE ARE NOW NORMAL; THE REST OF THE WORLD IS SCREWED UP WHEN IT COMES TO EATING! Understand that if you eat ALL your necessary PROTEIN & VEGES, you may not have any calories available to eat anything else. We can NEVER eat "normally" EVER AGAIN. Why would we want to? Eating "normally" made us OBESE & UNHEALTHY. This is part of the mental changes we MUST make. It isn't "normal" to gorge on cookies & cake & candy bars & fast food & & & & & & ... (Thanks to our new Northern friend who wants to be a Charlestonian) ... GET 6 - 8 HOURS OF QUALITY SLEEP. Nick & I have begun turning off the TV earlier & sleeping a bit more & WHA-LAH, we feel better, less cranky, more positive, more energetic. If we can't make the transition mentally & emotionally, GET PROFESSIONAL HELP & SUPPORT. Our support groups like LCBBuddies & UPS are wonderful, but most times our friends will be TOO EASY on us when we are screwing up ... so, do like Kathy & Rebecca are bravely & wisely doing ... GET HELP! I've already signed up for MUSC's Post Op class & am also going to go to their Transition Nutrition class & will go to any I can - something I stopped doing last year. One of the classes is run by a Psychiatrist, so if I keep having issues after going to his classes, I'll talk to him & see about getting regular one-on-one appointments. OK, the #1 BIGGIE IS EXERCISE, EXERCISE, EXERCISE ... CONSISTENT EXERCISE. Not to the point of hurting yourself ... use common sense ... but, push yourself. We need both Cardio & Weight Training, but it seems like I had it reversed ... Weight Training actually does help you lose weight ... & the cool part is that it SHAPES & TIGHTENS YOUR BODY. AT THE END OF OUR WEIGHT LOSS JOURNEY, IT ISN'T THE ACTUAL NUMBER ON THE SCALE THAT MATTERS AS MUCH AS THE HEALTH & FITNESS OF OUR BODIES. It's better to be muscled & fit into a 10 than be flabby & fit into a 6. I'm taking Nick to work tomorrow & keeping the car so I can go around to the local fitness centers & check them out. We're both LAZY BUTTS when it comes to exercising, so we're going to go together so if one of us doesn't want to go, the other will be able to DRAG THEM TO THE GYM! WHATEVER I'VE MISSED, PLEASE ADD ANYTHING THAT CAN HELP US! WE'RE ALL IN THE SAME BOAT LADIES & GENTS, SO KEEP YOUR CHINS UP & KNOW THAT TOGETHER, WE CAN DO THIS!!!!!!!!!! GOD BLESS ... DAWN & NICK

Hey Double D, By now, you've already discovered you are NOT ALONE with your nose pressed up against that durned wall. Just wanted to ask all of y'all to scootch over and make room for me. It's been about 2 months since I've seen any significant loss of pounds, and I'm feeling quite frustrated. I know I've caused a lot of the slowing down myself ... I haven't been faithful to exercise, and I've pushed the limit with sweets at times. AND I've added the BIG weight loss stopper -- alcohol -- back into my world on a semi-regular basis (2 or 3 times a month). But until now, I was feeling that invincible feeling of: "No matter WHAT I do, I will be about 10 pounds lighter in 30 days!" No more. And I so wanted to be at goal on my 1-year surgiversary next month. If that's to have ANY chance of happening, I need to get serious and make changes. My husband told me about seeing a news story last week, talking about how the cardio was far less valuable a tool than weight-training for weight loss. The more muscle we build, the more calories we will burn. I'm getting my exercise bands out from wherever I hid them months ago. Thanks for posting your request for advice, and thanks to all who made suggestions ... I needed this! Dawn