RNY reversals? How about Revisions? Who was your surgeon?
on 10/26/09 12:33 pm
Well, that's okay with me. Because you DIDN'T help. Not sure what you were thinking when you wrote that one.
"As for 10 supplements per day.. well, that's nothing. Am I sorry you were misled about the amount of supplements WE would need? (Yes, I was as well, but I got over it rather than whine about it).. sure I'm sorry about it.. but 10 is minor. I take a great deal more than that just to maintain."
I'm not whining about my issues. I was saying how I feel. In my original post, I do not mention my specific problems. I didn't intend to go that route. I was asked about them. 10 supplements per day may be nothing to you, but it is not how I want to continue living my life...and feeling sicker and sicker. And taking more and more "just to maintain". 10 supplement pills a day, plus my prescriptions is ridiculous to me. I'm not whining about being misled by my surgeons, although I can see where it seemed like it. I have also stated that our surgeons didn't know we'd need more than they told us. I get that.
Ugghh...I suspected these boards would be just like they were 7 years ago. Unfortunately, I was right.
I wish for you the very best in your life's journey as well.
I'm so sorry for all the problems you have. You make some very valid and thought provoking points about the uncertainty of malabsorbtive procedures. Have you been to the Yahoo WLS Gone Wrong group? It is a forum for people with similar issues. There's been some recent discussion on Dr. Schlesinger. He was not my original surgeon, I've consulted him for an ERNY but have not gotten insurance approval.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OSSG-gone_wrong/
But why did you feel it was necessary to attack Michelle? She was just trying to help. Yes, she sells vitamins but she never, ever tells any one to buy specifically from her. Her advice is always freely given without any expectation of profit. Without her counsel over the years, I know I wouldn't be as healthy as I am today.
I hope Dr. S will be able to help you and you regain your health.
Michele
I like Michelle, Michelle has been a huge help to all of us but... I do not for one minute think that the OP was intentionally trying to attack her. I don't see that. I think the OP is sick, she is frustrated, she has absolutely bloody had it with everything involving her surgery and her health. I think she's just plain and simply frustrated and at her wits end.
I don't know the OP well by any stretch, just what I see on the boards.
I'm so sorry for all the problems you have. You make some very valid and thought provoking points about the uncertainty of malabsorbtive procedures. Have you been to the Yahoo WLS Gone Wrong group? It is a forum for people with similar issues. There's been some recent discussion on Dr. Schlesinger. He was not my original surgeon, I've consulted him for an ERNY but have not gotten insurance approval.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OSSG-gone_wrong/
But why did you feel it was necessary to attack Michelle? She was just trying to help. Yes, she sells vitamins but she never, ever tells any one to buy specifically from her. Her advice is always freely given without any expectation of profit. Without her counsel over the years, I know I wouldn't be as healthy as I am today.
I hope Dr. S will be able to help you and you regain your health.
Michele
I like Michelle, Michelle has been a huge help to all of us but... I do not for one minute think that the OP was intentionally trying to attack her. I don't see that. I think the OP is sick, she is frustrated, she has absolutely bloody had it with everything involving her surgery and her health. I think she's just plain and simply frustrated and at her wits end.
I don't know the OP well by any stretch, just what I see on the boards.
She needs a meds adjustment. I was in the same place just a couple weeks ago. I was SURE I had some vitamin deficiency that was causing me to have all these bizarre symptoms. When all my labs came back in normal range, I thought well, perhaps it's just menopause, as I continued daily to just barely function through the brain fog and body aches, dizziness, etc. Then I learned from vitalady that I was taking the wrong form of magnesium, so I switched to magnesium citrate. I bought this from Vitamin World at the mall, NOT from vitalady. I was SO sure I was on to something with my "magnesium deficiency." Well, my muscle aches improved a bit, but that was about it with the mag change. Then, I tried limiting sugar and carbs. I still felt like shyte no matter what I ate.
I was obsessed with how horrible I felt and was constantly coming up with "theories" on what could be wrong. But depression, fatigue, body aches are symptoms of ANY illness. It could be anything and certainly caused by how my guts have been unnaturally rearranged. I felt panicky. Hypochondriac. I told my husband to know where the phone is at all times to be able to call for help if I'm incapacitate.
I bet you dollars to donuts if she were to get an Rx for LIQUID ZOLOFT and drank it with some juice, she'd have a whole lot less of these afflictions in a few days. Then she could get on with taking the CORRECT form of supplements which vitalady has so graciously recommended, and getting back to health. I would REALLY like to see this SANE and simple approach, rather than the radical process she's pursuing. I'm sure that's why vitalady chimed in as well.
In fact, I'm going to PM this post to the OP. I feel I was very LUCKY to be experimenting with meds and supplements to get my health straightened out and just stumbled onto this regime that's making me feel 100% better. At NO time, however, was a reversal of my surgery even a consideration!!
I'm so sorry for all the problems you have. You make some very valid and thought provoking points about the uncertainty of malabsorbtive procedures. Have you been to the Yahoo WLS Gone Wrong group? It is a forum for people with similar issues. There's been some recent discussion on Dr. Schlesinger. He was not my original surgeon, I've consulted him for an ERNY but have not gotten insurance approval.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OSSG-gone_wrong/
But why did you feel it was necessary to attack Michelle? She was just trying to help. Yes, she sells vitamins but she never, ever tells any one to buy specifically from her. Her advice is always freely given without any expectation of profit. Without her counsel over the years, I know I wouldn't be as healthy as I am today.
I hope Dr. S will be able to help you and you regain your health.
Michele
I like Michelle, Michelle has been a huge help to all of us but... I do not for one minute think that the OP was intentionally trying to attack her. I don't see that. I think the OP is sick, she is frustrated, she has absolutely bloody had it with everything involving her surgery and her health. I think she's just plain and simply frustrated and at her wits end.
I don't know the OP well by any stretch, just what I see on the boards.
She needs a meds adjustment. I was in the same place just a couple weeks ago. I was SURE I had some vitamin deficiency that was causing me to have all these bizarre symptoms. When all my labs came back in normal range, I thought well, perhaps it's just menopause, as I continued daily to just barely function through the brain fog and body aches, dizziness, etc. Then I learned from vitalady that I was taking the wrong form of magnesium, so I switched to magnesium citrate. I bought this from Vitamin World at the mall, NOT from vitalady. I was SO sure I was on to something with my "magnesium deficiency." Well, my muscle aches improved a bit, but that was about it with the mag change. Then, I tried limiting sugar and carbs. I still felt like shyte no matter what I ate.
I was obsessed with how horrible I felt and was constantly coming up with "theories" on what could be wrong. But depression, fatigue, body aches are symptoms of ANY illness. It could be anything and certainly caused by how my guts have been unnaturally rearranged. I felt panicky. Hypochondriac. I told my husband to know where the phone is at all times to be able to call for help if I'm incapacitate.
I bet you dollars to donuts if she were to get an Rx for LIQUID ZOLOFT and drank it with some juice, she'd have a whole lot less of these afflictions in a few days. Then she could get on with taking the CORRECT form of supplements which vitalady has so graciously recommended, and getting back to health. I would REALLY like to see this SANE and simple approach, rather than the radical process she's pursuing. I'm sure that's why vitalady chimed in as well.
In fact, I'm going to PM this post to the OP. I feel I was very LUCKY to be experimenting with meds and supplements to get my health straightened out and just stumbled onto this regime that's making me feel 100% better. At NO time, however, was a reversal of my surgery even a consideration!!
I completely and totally agree with you. I have no doubt that with the RIGHT med adjustments the OP could live a healthy life without being at the hands of Schlesinger. But, we also have to remember where she is at mentally and emotionally.
I do not deny for one minute that I worry a GREAT deal about her going to Schlesinger. He's nothing short of dangerous. But ... sometimes people have to follow their gut and do what they believe is right.
She has to do what she believes is right for her regardless of what we think. She has been through far too much for us to presume to know what is right for her. She is most clearly at her wits end and I believe in my heart she is in a place where she can't take anymore. I've been there. The band almost killed me. I would have done bloody anything just to feel better. People think that because it is "just" a band it can't really do much harm. I looked like a fricken crack ***** I laugh today and say that had I just blackened out my two front teeth it would have finished the crack ***** look. Truth is, I was too embarrassed to leave my home because of how I looked. I never have come clean about my BMI at the time of revision surgery. I was sick, I was dying. Period.
I would have done anything just to feel better and nobody could have talked me out of my plans to feel better. *I* was lucky, I had the best of the best surgeons that was there for me through everything. I was so exhausted and sick. I relate to the OP in many ways, we had similar problems but for different reasons.
She has to do what she has to do. She is in place that she is desperate to feel better. Do I think she is safe with her choice of surgeons? Oh HELL no! But, she has to follow her gut and do what is right for her.
But, you see, the problem IS me. NOT the vitamins. It is NOT normal to have to take such high doses of such specialized vitamins. HEALTHY human beings can get the nutrition they need from food, and possibly a bit of supplementation. Bariatric patients need much, much more.
The thing is, when most of us had this surgery 7+ years ago, our nutritionists/surgeons/doctors told us we'd need to take vitamins for life. They DID NOT say we'd have to spend over a hundred dollars per month on extra special vitamins, or that we'd have to take 10-15 pills per day FOREVER. We did NOT get the truth. We were told, "take your iron, take a multi-vitamin and some calcium & you'll be fine". The truth is, we need costly, highly specialized viatmins & supplements. And even with them, it's very likely that we're still not absorbing everything we need.
Have you heard of DHA in baby formula? It's been a few years since they started adding it to baby formula. Before that, no one knew it was important. Most didn't even know what it was. So, how many micronutrients that aren't even known to nutritionists are we bypass patients NOT absorbing. Even by your own account, we don't absorb the most basic nutrients from food, or even most of the supplements currently available (except the ones that will cost you insane amounts of money per month).
And, are you a doctor? If you're not, then don't tell people that a dx from their doctor is not valid in your eyes. It's quite condescending. I'm glad you attended a conference on nesidioblastosis, but that really does not make you qualified to judge a dx given by a doctor. The conference was what, maybe 8 hours? So, I guess you'd need that conference plus about 8 years of med school and internship to voice what sounds like or may be taken as an "expert" opinion?
I'm glad you've got a thriving business. I really am. However, I believe that to correct what is wrong with ME, I need to absorb nutrients like a normal person through my intestines. Like I said, who knows what micronutrients will be discovered, and then discovered that we don't absorb. I'm sure you're helping many people feel better with your supplements, and that's a great thing. However, in my opinion, the only way to have long-term health is to restore the body to the way it was made (or as close to it as possible).
Will I gain my weight back. Perhaps. The statistics say so. But, I will tell you that for the last 5 years I have felt sicker than I ever did, even at my highest weight. So, I will chance it. I believe the odds that I will be healthier after restoring my intestines to a "normal" state are in my favor. Do you know what causes Alzheimers? No? Neither does anyone else. Do you know what causes cancer? No? Neither does anyone else. Do doctors know that proper nutrition is a key defense to preventing disease? Yes, they do. Do bypass patients ever obtain "proper nutrition"? My opinion is that NO, they do not. We do NOT absorb nutrients as we should. It is much more that taking a simple multi-vitamin....or even dozens of specialized supplements.
Did vitamins & supplements work for you? It appears so. I'm sure lots of people feel better when they take your myriad supplements. But does that mean they are getting all the nutrients as before their bypass procedure? NO. Again, it is MUCH more than taking the few supplements our surgeons/nutritionists told us back then. You can't deny that.
It boils down to this: I am not healthy. I do not believe it is normal or healthy to have to take iron injections, b12 injections, and/or huge amounts of supplements for the rest of my life. I have taken literally thousands of vitamin and mineral pills over the last 7 years. I am going to do what I need to do to be healthy. And that is to have my anatomy restored to as close to as normal as possible. Yes, the excess weight is not healthy either, I know that. At least I have the chance to control that. Living with bypassed intestines, I have NO CONTROL over how or what my body absorbs.
For the last 5 years, I have told everyone who asks about my RNY & whether I'd recommend it to them, NOT to do it. I tell them that if they feel they want or need bariatric surgery, that they should do the LapBand. Malabsorptive surgeries just don't make sense to me any more.
Now, about the Zoloft. It's only been very recently that they have associated Zoloft with ulcers or other internal bleeds. It's not just Zoloft, it's all SSRI's. Oh, and they also know that SSRI's are not well absorbed by bypass patients. What other meds are we not getting the proper dose of because of our bypassed intestines? There's not a vitamin out there that can fix that problem.
I did meet with Dr. Schlesinger. Twice, in fact. So, no, I didn't just talk with his "staff". The only reason I'm asking for advice for a surgeon is that I've read some negative comments on these boards about him, and I got a bad case of the nerves. Turns out they're all from 2, maybe 3 people. I didn't come to this forum to be told that I just need the right vitamins. I don't believe the "right" vitamins are a thing that even exists. The medical opinion on them changes too frequently.
Thank you for your info. I'm sure you're helping lots of people feel better than they did before they began taking your supplements. But feeling better is not the same as being truly healthy. I don't mean to sound cross, but I'm tired of living this way. I'm tired of worrying what the honest to goodness long-term effects of malabsorption are going to be. I'm tired of taking 10 or more vitamin & mineral pills every day (lots more than just a "multi-vitamin & some calcium"). I'm tired of not being healthy. I'm tired of being tired. I'm tired of the wild blood sugar swings. I'm tired of the heart palpitations. I'm tired of the abdominal pain. I'm tired of hearing, "You'll feel better if you take (supplement x)", and then NOT feeling better.
Dr. Schlesinger's office has submitted my paperwork to my insurance for approval for the RNY reversal. I also now feel confident I've made the right choice not only in the reversal, but with the surgeon I've selected. Again, thanks for your time & info.
LMAO! You're tired of taking 10 or more vitamin/mineral pills a day?!?!?
My gawd, you poor, POOR baby.
Yes, by all means just go get a reversal. You have no clue how to recognize when you have it made.
I have a DS, and vitalady's supplements literally allow me to get NORMAL blood draws, with practically NO fat absorption and only 2 feet of functioning small intestine. Boo-hoo, lemme cry some about my fat malabsorption -- well, that didn't really work out too well soon as I remembered the FAT ribeye slathered in hollandaise sauce I'll be having for dinner tonight! My life is ROUGH, I tell ya.
Bottom line, I believe it is SO WORTH IT to take supplements, and I take 10 just for breakfast! Geesh!
Now, go on about getting your reversal because you want your cake and eat it, too; so now you'll have neither. But don't you DARE upset vitalady who, with the patience of a SAINT, took all this time to help you, and literally holds the lives of THOUSANDS of us in her care with those pills she lovingly pushes!!
Proximal RNY Lap - 02/21/05
9 years committed ~ 100% EWL and Maintaining
www.dazzlinglashesandbeyond.com
on 10/26/09 12:45 pm
LMAO! You're tired of taking 10 or more vitamin/mineral pills a day?!?!?
"My gawd, you poor, POOR baby.
Yes, by all means just go get a reversal. You have no clue how to recognize when you have it made.
I have a DS, and vitalady's supplements literally allow me to get NORMAL blood draws, with practically NO fat absorption and only 2 feet of functioning small intestine. Boo-hoo, lemme cry some about my fat malabsorption -- well, that didn't really work out too well soon as I remembered the FAT ribeye slathered in hollandaise sauce I'll be having for dinner tonight! My life is ROUGH, I tell ya.
Bottom line, I believe it is SO WORTH IT to take supplements, and I take 10 just for breakfast! Geesh!
Now, go on about getting your reversal because you want your cake and eat it, too; so now you'll have neither. But don't you DARE upset vitalady who, with the patience of a SAINT, took all this time to help you, and literally holds the lives of THOUSANDS of us in her care with those pills she lovingly pushes!! "
Um, and how is this post NOT an attack? I've apologized many times over for what was construed as an attack on Michelle, even though it was not my intent. But, clearly, this post is childish, mean-spirited, and downright *****y. Seriously. You have gotten yourself wound WAAYY to tight over words on a message board.
I'm really, really so happy that you don't mind taking handfuls of vitamins for the rest of your life. I'm glad you don't have to worry about if you are absorbing the prescription meds your doctors have given you, and wonder if you're dosed right, because even the doctors aren't sure. I'm honestly (and I mean that) happy that these are not worries or concerns of yours. But they are for me. You don't know my daily life. You deride me for only taking 10 supplements per day. Well, you know what? When I got my RNY, I accepted that I'd be taking supplements forever. I did not accept or agree to keep taking ever increasing amount just to "maintain". I did not agree to doctors not knowing if I was getting the proper dose of RX's because they dose based on studies of non-bypassed people. I did not agree to feeling sicker and sicker. I was supposed to be improving my life. I have not been non-compliant, and I'm sorry you feel that I'm not taking enough vitamins to be compliant.....even though I'm taking lots more than what I thought when I got the RNY. This does not mean I"m whining. It means I want to reverse my surgery. I was asking for opinions on surgeons in this thread.
UGGGhhhh.....really. Again, I apologize for the umpteenth time to all of you who were offended by my words.
I will now happily leave these boards tonight.
I still do wish you happiness and health in your life's journey.
LMAO! You're tired of taking 10 or more vitamin/mineral pills a day?!?!?
"My gawd, you poor, POOR baby.
Yes, by all means just go get a reversal. You have no clue how to recognize when you have it made.
I have a DS, and vitalady's supplements literally allow me to get NORMAL blood draws, with practically NO fat absorption and only 2 feet of functioning small intestine. Boo-hoo, lemme cry some about my fat malabsorption -- well, that didn't really work out too well soon as I remembered the FAT ribeye slathered in hollandaise sauce I'll be having for dinner tonight! My life is ROUGH, I tell ya.
Bottom line, I believe it is SO WORTH IT to take supplements, and I take 10 just for breakfast! Geesh!
Now, go on about getting your reversal because you want your cake and eat it, too; so now you'll have neither. But don't you DARE upset vitalady who, with the patience of a SAINT, took all this time to help you, and literally holds the lives of THOUSANDS of us in her care with those pills she lovingly pushes!! "
Um, and how is this post NOT an attack? I've apologized many times over for what was construed as an attack on Michelle, even though it was not my intent. But, clearly, this post is childish, mean-spirited, and downright *****y. Seriously. You have gotten yourself wound WAAYY to tight over words on a message board.
I'm really, really so happy that you don't mind taking handfuls of vitamins for the rest of your life. I'm glad you don't have to worry about if you are absorbing the prescription meds your doctors have given you, and wonder if you're dosed right, because even the doctors aren't sure. I'm honestly (and I mean that) happy that these are not worries or concerns of yours. But they are for me. You don't know my daily life. You deride me for only taking 10 supplements per day. Well, you know what? When I got my RNY, I accepted that I'd be taking supplements forever. I did not accept or agree to keep taking ever increasing amount just to "maintain". I did not agree to doctors not knowing if I was getting the proper dose of RX's because they dose based on studies of non-bypassed people. I did not agree to feeling sicker and sicker. I was supposed to be improving my life. I have not been non-compliant, and I'm sorry you feel that I'm not taking enough vitamins to be compliant.....even though I'm taking lots more than what I thought when I got the RNY. This does not mean I"m whining. It means I want to reverse my surgery. I was asking for opinions on surgeons in this thread.
UGGGhhhh.....really. Again, I apologize for the umpteenth time to all of you who were offended by my words.
I will now happily leave these boards tonight.
I still do wish you happiness and health in your life's journey.
Damn straight this is an attack. A counter attack on you for your attack on vitalady. Vitalady is an important asset to this community. You, with your alarmist attitude, are more of a cancer.
PLEASE think about the PM I sent you!
