Revision complications!!! Anyone had stent?????
On December 5, 2008 at 1:20 PM Pacific Time, Deanne K. wrote:
My only point is that we are not surgeons. We are not the ones doing the surgery. A good surgeon will do what is best for each patient. They would be the judge of what to do that is right for each patient. Everyone has a right to feel comfortable or uncomfortable with a surgeon.
It is in their best interest to look out for themselves and check into each surgeon by doing the research and talking to other patients if possible.
You are correct not every revision should be open, but if the surgeon feels it's in the best interest of the patient, then as a team they should decide if that is the approach or risk they are willing to take.
It is also not correct to say that all surgeries should be LAP as well as you were saying before. All surgeries are a risk no matter how they are done.
A good surgeon would offer all the options, if they didn't, I would go elsewhere.
One does not need to be a surgeon to do their research. If 90% of surgeons are doing band to sleeves or bands to bypass via lap and only 10% are doing full open then there is a problem with the surgeon and his lap skill level.
Schlessinger is a good example, he prefers to do band to bypass revisions with NO previous abdominal surgeries via full open. There isn't a chance in the world I would go to him. It is NOT because it is safer, it most certainly is NOT safer. It's the skill level of the surgeon that is involved.
If I can go to a lap surgeon and have the same procedure done via lap vs. full open, then the surgeon suggesting I do a full open procedure is only saying that because HE can't do a revision from band to bypass safely, not that it can't be done safely by someone else.
I love research, I push research non stop unlike those that almost make it a job to push one Phoenix surgeon here for revisions. Truth is, he's just not that great. So please understand, you are preaching to the choir about researching surgeons. I don't just push one surgeon, I show people how to research them ALL.
*I* never claimed all revisions should be done by lap. I seem to be the one not back peddling here. Here is what I wrote:
~~The doctors you have talked to are just dead wrong. Lap revisions are done all the time with a great deal less risk than a full open.
If the surgeon has he skill it should be done via lap when possible. If the surgeon doesn't have the skill to do it lap then another surgeon should be found.
Sure, there are some cases that need a full open but that shouldn't be the norm. People need to find a doctor that CAN do it lap due to skill.~~
Where does that say that all revisions need to be done via lap? I most certainly did not write what you have claimed. I did not claim ALL revisions should be via lap. *I* said all revisions do not need to be via full open. And again, when a doctor HAS to do it via full open because he isn't skilled in lap, he needs to be referring the patient to someone who can do it via lap instead of putting the patient at greater risk by a full open procedure.
On December 5, 2008 at 1:51 PM Pacific Time, MidwesternGirl wrote:
On December 5, 2008 at 1:20 PM Pacific Time, Deanne K. wrote:
My only point is that we are not surgeons. We are not the ones doing the surgery. A good surgeon will do what is best for each patient. They would be the judge of what to do that is right for each patient. Everyone has a right to feel comfortable or uncomfortable with a surgeon.
It is in their best interest to look out for themselves and check into each surgeon by doing the research and talking to other patients if possible.
You are correct not every revision should be open, but if the surgeon feels it's in the best interest of the patient, then as a team they should decide if that is the approach or risk they are willing to take.
It is also not correct to say that all surgeries should be LAP as well as you were saying before. All surgeries are a risk no matter how they are done.
A good surgeon would offer all the options, if they didn't, I would go elsewhere.
One does not need to be a surgeon to do their research. If 90% of surgeons are doing band to sleeves or bands to bypass via lap and only 10% are doing full open then there is a problem with the surgeon and his lap skill level.
Schlessinger is a good example, he prefers to do band to bypass revisions with NO previous abdominal surgeries via full open. There isn't a chance in the world I would go to him. It is NOT because it is safer, it most certainly is NOT safer. It's the skill level of the surgeon that is involved.
If I can go to a lap surgeon and have the same procedure done via lap vs. full open, then the surgeon suggesting I do a full open procedure is only saying that because HE can't do a revision from band to bypass safely, not that it can't be done safely by someone else.
I love research, I push research non stop unlike those that almost make it a job to push one Phoenix surgeon here for revisions. Truth is, he's just not that great. So please understand, you are preaching to the choir about researching surgeons. I don't just push one surgeon, I show people how to research them ALL.
*I* never claimed all revisions should be done by lap. I seem to be the one not back peddling here. Here is what I wrote:
~~The doctors you have talked to are just dead wrong. Lap revisions are done all the time with a great deal less risk than a full open.
If the surgeon has he skill it should be done via lap when possible. If the surgeon doesn't have the skill to do it lap then another surgeon should be found.
Sure, there are some cases that need a full open but that shouldn't be the norm. People need to find a doctor that CAN do it lap due to skill.~~
Where does that say that all revisions need to be done via lap? I most certainly did not write what you have claimed. I did not claim ALL revisions should be via lap. *I* said all revisions do not need to be via full open. And again, when a doctor HAS to do it via full open because he isn't skilled in lap, he needs to be referring the patient to someone who can do it via lap instead of putting the patient at greater risk by a full open procedure.
I am not pushing one Dr. over another by any means or any location. There are many great Dr.'s world wide. Do you see me giving you a hard time about chosing to have surgery in Mexico, No that is your choice, and I know you did your homework. One word of caution here, if you have a problem and you can't get to Mexico who are you going to see. The only one who will see you is Dr. Schlesinger!!!! Can't even get someone here in Tucson to see me and believe me, I have called and talked to them all.
My original Dr. did my RNY lap and didn't even come close to a standard procedure, I was bypassed only 30 cm which is 1 foot, standard is 100cm to 150cm. This Dr. is at a COE, so doing all your research doesn't always get you the information or the results that you want or expect. I lost 100 lbs, so don't say I was not successful, because I was, until the surgery failed. This Dr. only does lap and messed it up royally and blames it on the patients. Their solution to everyone is to put a lapband over an RNY, they only offer some of the options, I knew it wasn't the right choice for me and neither was their unwillingness to help me achieve "their" goal before they would even talk to me about a revision.
I just want to say that slandering a Dr. because you think they know what kind of skill level they have will only get you into trouble. I did not mention Schlesinger at all you did. I have seen, met and talked to patients of his for months before my surgery. Dr. Schlesinger saves patients lives that others messed up and don't want to admit they messed up. Dr. Schlesinger takes on cases that alot of Dr.'s wouldn't even touch, even the COE's. Dr. Schlesinger also offers the full spectrum of all surgeries and tailors them to each patient. Just because you don't like him and he doesn't do surgeries the way you think he should, or you think he only does them one way, which is not true, doesn't mean he's not great, just makes you look like you don't know what you are talking about. He is and will always be a life saver!!!!!!!! I have talked and met many surgeons before I chose the right one for my revision surgery. I did my research.
My friend was not a patient of Dr. Schlesinger's. I just wanted you to know it, but her surgeon is a prominent surgeon in the state. I am not going to name names as it's not appropriate. I still refer patients to them all the time as I do with my original surgeon. They still do great work for others, this was a one time incidident and that complications happen and do arise. I only inform people of the risk of having lap when they should have chosen to do it open when this is a real risk. She never wavered in her support of her surgeon, despite the complications. Just because it is a risk doesn't mean it's right or wrong or a measure of skill level.
What surgery I had is way different from lapband to RNY or sleeve and requires much skill either way it is done. In most cases, yes a lap procedure is probably the most appropriate for band to RNY or sleeve, but it depends upon the person and their health issues and other surgeries they have had. They measure the common channel of what is at the end and must be done very carefully. Can you guess how long someone's intestines are exactly? NOT!!! He has saved lives by doing open procedures as he can see everything very clearly and evaluate and carefully correct problems. He does lap procedures when appropriate.
I think these post have gotten off of the support that the orginal person had requested. I suggest that this discussion ends now. We have had this discussion before and it gets everyone nowhere and only shows how rude and childish you are with your continued negative posts.
You nit pick at things that are not there or even said and slander Dr.'s you don't even know.
Enough said. I'M DONE HERE. Let's get back to support.
On December 5, 2008 at 4:13 PM Pacific Time, Deanne K. wrote:
On December 5, 2008 at 1:51 PM Pacific Time, MidwesternGirl wrote:
On December 5, 2008 at 1:20 PM Pacific Time, Deanne K. wrote:
My only point is that we are not surgeons. We are not the ones doing the surgery. A good surgeon will do what is best for each patient. They would be the judge of what to do that is right for each patient. Everyone has a right to feel comfortable or uncomfortable with a surgeon.
It is in their best interest to look out for themselves and check into each surgeon by doing the research and talking to other patients if possible.
You are correct not every revision should be open, but if the surgeon feels it's in the best interest of the patient, then as a team they should decide if that is the approach or risk they are willing to take.
It is also not correct to say that all surgeries should be LAP as well as you were saying before. All surgeries are a risk no matter how they are done.
A good surgeon would offer all the options, if they didn't, I would go elsewhere.
One does not need to be a surgeon to do their research. If 90% of surgeons are doing band to sleeves or bands to bypass via lap and only 10% are doing full open then there is a problem with the surgeon and his lap skill level.
Schlessinger is a good example, he prefers to do band to bypass revisions with NO previous abdominal surgeries via full open. There isn't a chance in the world I would go to him. It is NOT because it is safer, it most certainly is NOT safer. It's the skill level of the surgeon that is involved.
If I can go to a lap surgeon and have the same procedure done via lap vs. full open, then the surgeon suggesting I do a full open procedure is only saying that because HE can't do a revision from band to bypass safely, not that it can't be done safely by someone else.
I love research, I push research non stop unlike those that almost make it a job to push one Phoenix surgeon here for revisions. Truth is, he's just not that great. So please understand, you are preaching to the choir about researching surgeons. I don't just push one surgeon, I show people how to research them ALL.
*I* never claimed all revisions should be done by lap. I seem to be the one not back peddling here. Here is what I wrote:
~~The doctors you have talked to are just dead wrong. Lap revisions are done all the time with a great deal less risk than a full open.
If the surgeon has he skill it should be done via lap when possible. If the surgeon doesn't have the skill to do it lap then another surgeon should be found.
Sure, there are some cases that need a full open but that shouldn't be the norm. People need to find a doctor that CAN do it lap due to skill.~~
Where does that say that all revisions need to be done via lap? I most certainly did not write what you have claimed. I did not claim ALL revisions should be via lap. *I* said all revisions do not need to be via full open. And again, when a doctor HAS to do it via full open because he isn't skilled in lap, he needs to be referring the patient to someone who can do it via lap instead of putting the patient at greater risk by a full open procedure.
I am not pushing one Dr. over another by any means or any location. There are many great Dr.'s world wide. Do you see me giving you a hard time about chosing to have surgery in Mexico, No that is your choice, and I know you did your homework. One word of caution here, if you have a problem and you can't get to Mexico who are you going to see. The only one who will see you is Dr. Schlesinger!!!! Can't even get someone here in Tucson to see me and believe me, I have called and talked to them all.
My original Dr. did my RNY lap and didn't even come close to a standard procedure, I was bypassed only 30 cm which is 1 foot, standard is 100cm to 150cm. This Dr. is at a COE, so doing all your research doesn't always get you the information or the results that you want or expect. I lost 100 lbs, so don't say I was not successful, because I was, until the surgery failed. This Dr. only does lap and messed it up royally and blames it on the patients. Their solution to everyone is to put a lapband over an RNY, they only offer some of the options, I knew it wasn't the right choice for me and neither was their unwillingness to help me achieve "their" goal before they would even talk to me about a revision.
I just want to say that slandering a Dr. because you think they know what kind of skill level they have will only get you into trouble. I did not mention Schlesinger at all you did. I have seen, met and talked to patients of his for months before my surgery. Dr. Schlesinger saves patients lives that others messed up and don't want to admit they messed up. Dr. Schlesinger takes on cases that alot of Dr.'s wouldn't even touch, even the COE's. Dr. Schlesinger also offers the full spectrum of all surgeries and tailors them to each patient. Just because you don't like him and he doesn't do surgeries the way you think he should, or you think he only does them one way, which is not true, doesn't mean he's not great, just makes you look like you don't know what you are talking about. He is and will always be a life saver!!!!!!!! I have talked and met many surgeons before I chose the right one for my revision surgery. I did my research.
My friend was not a patient of Dr. Schlesinger's. I just wanted you to know it, but her surgeon is a prominent surgeon in the state. I am not going to name names as it's not appropriate. I still refer patients to them all the time as I do with my original surgeon. They still do great work for others, this was a one time incidident and that complications happen and do arise. I only inform people of the risk of having lap when they should have chosen to do it open when this is a real risk. She never wavered in her support of her surgeon, despite the complications. Just because it is a risk doesn't mean it's right or wrong or a measure of skill level.
What surgery I had is way different from lapband to RNY or sleeve and requires much skill either way it is done. In most cases, yes a lap procedure is probably the most appropriate for band to RNY or sleeve, but it depends upon the person and their health issues and other surgeries they have had. They measure the common channel of what is at the end and must be done very carefully. Can you guess how long someone's intestines are exactly? NOT!!! He has saved lives by doing open procedures as he can see everything very clearly and evaluate and carefully correct problems. He does lap procedures when appropriate.
I think these post have gotten off of the support that the orginal person had requested. I suggest that this discussion ends now. We have had this discussion before and it gets everyone nowhere and only shows how rude and childish you are with your continued negative posts.
You nit pick at things that are not there or even said and slander Dr.'s you don't even know.
Enough said. I'M DONE HERE. Let's get back to support.
You are crazy if you think *I* am done after that post. OMG, where to start?
Just because a surgeon suggests something doesn't make it right. One surgeon may suggest one route and 25 others may suggest the opposite route. That doesn't make the one surgeon right.
Why would you give anyone a hard time about having surgery in MX? My ins would have covered a revision and I didn't like any of the doctors contracted with my ins and I opted for self pay with a doctor I did trust. I did my research.
This is not true that WLS can only see Schlesinger. Just as you claim I wrote that everyone can have lap revisions (which I never wrote) it is also not accurate that WLS patients can only see Schlesinger. Thinking AZ patients here, we can see Debarros in Tempe, Orris in Tempe, Berger in Flag, Aldridge in Flag, Aceves in Mexicali, and in an emergency you can see Juarez at St. Lukes as well as his partner and I do not recall his partner's name.. Spreading around misinformation does not help any of us. To claim that only Schlesinger sees patients he did not operate on is simply not true.
For lap band fills there is are even more people but for everything else the above doctors will indeed see people they did not operate on including MX WLS folks.
I agree with you that just because a place is a COE that does not mean they are good. I've been a nurse in AZ for a long time and I knew full well who I was NOT going to for surgery and I opted for Aceves in MX. He's driving distance from AZ, he has fantastic stats, works out of a beautiful hospital, keeps patients in the hospital for 2 nights following a band (outpatient in the US), 3 nights for a sleeve (1 night in the US) and 6 nights following bypass (not sure how long bypass patients are kept in the hospital after surgery in the US). Please understand, I never ever made a claim that a COE is superior to anyone else.
Please refrain from cautioning me about legal issues. The word I believe you are looking for is libel, not slander. Big, huge, difference. I am free to state my opinions about a doctor on a message board designed to exchange information. I'll give you an example of why I don't believe Schlesinger is a good lap surgeon. If you are getting a revision from a band to sleeve he MIGHT do it lap, if it is a band to bypass he does it open. Just called their office today to ask. I explained there were no previous abdominal surgeries other than the band and she said he does them via full open. It's a simple fact, not all docs are capable of doing lap procedures and for a band to sleeve or band to bypass without previous lower abdominal surgeries that's just sheer insanity. It's more risk to the patient and merely because the doctor doesn't have the skill to do it via lap. You just don't do a full open because your surgical skills limit you. You send the patient to someone that can do it safely via lap.
Unless you have a law degree please refrain from giving me incorrect legal advice that was unasked for.
You have told me I said all revisions should be lap, you have claimed no AZ doctors will follow patients they did not operate on, and now you claim I have slandered someone when you clearly don't understand the meaning of the word. And you say *I* do not know what I am talking about? Then you go on and tell me who should have had a full open procedure vs. lap and yet I shouldn't offer opinions of my own? No, it doesn't work that way.
~~In most cases, yes a lap procedure is probably the most appropriate for band to RNY or sleeve, but it depends upon the person and their health issues and other surgeries they have had.~~
It would appear your doctor disagrees. I just talked to the office today and they were pretty darn clear that band to bypass is done via full open by Schlesinger and again, this is a patient with no comorbidities, no previous lower abdominal procedures, and flat out no reason to do a full open. So now aren't you suggesting that you know more than a "doctor" and your doctor to boot?
I happen to know Schlesinger, as I wrote I've been a nurse in Phx for a long time. Before suggesting I do not know what I am talking about regarding any given issue, perhaps you should find out what I do and do not know first.
~~You nit pick at things that are not there or even said and slander Dr.'s you don't even know.~~
How would you know? You don't even know what slander means for goodness sakes! And once again, how the heck do you know if I know Schlesinger or not? Happens to be I most certainly DO know the man. Again... stop the assumptions, it looks silly.
I have watched too many times the Schlesinger cheerleaders going at it and belittling anyone that doesn't praise him left and right as well as dog piling testimonials. I have news for you, those days are over. Support does not mean pushing a single doctor, it means pushing research and showing people how to do just that so they can discover information for themselves without depending on people on an internet message boards to sway them one way or another.
Cheers.
Midwestern Girl said, "I have watched too many times the Schlesinger cheerleaders going at it and belittling anyone that doesn't praise him left and right as well as dog piling testimonials. I have news for you, those days are over. Support does not mean pushing a single doctor, it means pushing research and showing people how to do just that so they can discover information for themselves without depending on people on an internet message boards to sway them one way or another."
Cheers.
The band got me to goal, the sleeve will keep me there.
From a size 22/4> .......not nearly big enough for the foot to fit in the mouth?
With your glorified "research"......my guess is that you know each of us personally and that we are all employees of our Revision surgeon? All who love Husted receive their Friday paychecks? All who love Garber receive their bonuses? I'm still waiting for my Schlesinger commission! LOL! ...Since I don't work for him; it may be a long time in coming!!....... People share positives about that which has been a blessing in their life. Dr. Schlesinger's fine surgical skills and amazing aftercare has literally saved many lives. So, if some of us grab our pom poms and do some cheering then perhaps we consider it a gift we are sharing with others. ,,,, How terribly smug of you to have spoken with someone from their office so you could get on here and do the nanny nanny boo boo thing! Such a professional nurse! Amazing!!! ...... Whoever answered their phone? I want to say a big "whatever" to. I used to work in the same building as Dr. S and I know oodles of his patient's who have had lap procedures.
silly how an entire showing of "true colors" had to come about just because others chose to show some sympathy to a fellow girlfriend on this site....suffering because of major complications! You've proven that you're NOT on this forum to gain friends.......But, even sharing your passion for "research" becomes tainted with your harsh postings. Support? I don't think so!
.....it turns people off! .... People are probably running to Dr. S just to prove you wrong!!! LOL! Of course they'll be the winners in the choosing!
Goooooooooooooooo TEAM!!!
Cheerleader for many surgeon's......(just spent the day doing volunteer work for Dr. Fang and Dr. Juarez!)
Cheers.
The band got me to goal, the sleeve will keep me there.
From a size 22/4> .......not nearly big enough for the foot to fit in the mouth?
With your glorified "research"......my guess is that you know each of us personally and that we are all employees of our Revision surgeon? All who love Husted receive their Friday paychecks? All who love Garber receive their bonuses? I'm still waiting for my Schlesinger commission! LOL! ...Since I don't work for him; it may be a long time in coming!!....... People share positives about that which has been a blessing in their life. Dr. Schlesinger's fine surgical skills and amazing aftercare has literally saved many lives. So, if some of us grab our pom poms and do some cheering then perhaps we consider it a gift we are sharing with others. ,,,, How terribly smug of you to have spoken with someone from their office so you could get on here and do the nanny nanny boo boo thing! Such a professional nurse! Amazing!!! ...... Whoever answered their phone? I want to say a big "whatever" to. I used to work in the same building as Dr. S and I know oodles of his patient's who have had lap procedures.
silly how an entire showing of "true colors" had to come about just because others chose to show some sympathy to a fellow girlfriend on this site....suffering because of major complications! You've proven that you're NOT on this forum to gain friends.......But, even sharing your passion for "research" becomes tainted with your harsh postings. Support? I don't think so!
.....it turns people off! .... People are probably running to Dr. S just to prove you wrong!!! LOL! Of course they'll be the winners in the choosing!
Goooooooooooooooo TEAM!!!
Cheerleader for many surgeon's......(just spent the day doing volunteer work for Dr. Fang and Dr. Juarez!)
Joyce Rny 2/11/03-> ERny 12/26/07-> Duodenal Switch 5/12/2010
www.dsfacts.com , www.dssurgery.com , & www.duodenalswitch.com
On December 5, 2008 at 7:29 PM Pacific Time, JRinAZ wrote:
Midwestern Girl said, "I have watched too many times the Schlesinger cheerleaders going at it and belittling anyone that doesn't praise him left and right as well as dog piling testimonials. I have news for you, those days are over. Support does not mean pushing a single doctor, it means pushing research and showing people how to do just that so they can discover information for themselves without depending on people on an internet message boards to sway them one way or another."Cheers.
The band got me to goal, the sleeve will keep me there.
From a size 22/4> .......not nearly big enough for the foot to fit in the mouth?
With your glorified "research"......my guess is that you know each of us personally and that we are all employees of our Revision surgeon? All who love Husted receive their Friday paychecks? All who love Garber receive their bonuses? I'm still waiting for my Schlesinger commission! LOL! ...Since I don't work for him; it may be a long time in coming!!....... People share positives about that which has been a blessing in their life. Dr. Schlesinger's fine surgical skills and amazing aftercare has literally saved many lives. So, if some of us grab our pom poms and do some cheering then perhaps we consider it a gift we are sharing with others. ,,,, How terribly smug of you to have spoken with someone from their office so you could get on here and do the nanny nanny boo boo thing! Such a professional nurse! Amazing!!! ...... Whoever answered their phone? I want to say a big "whatever" to. I used to work in the same building as Dr. S and I know oodles of his patient's who have had lap procedures.
silly how an entire showing of "true colors" had to come about just because others chose to show some sympathy to a fellow girlfriend on this site....suffering because of major complications! You've proven that you're NOT on this forum to gain friends.......But, even sharing your passion for "research" becomes tainted with your harsh postings. Support? I don't think so!
.....it turns people off! .... People are probably running to Dr. S just to prove you wrong!!! LOL! Of course they'll be the winners in the choosing!
Goooooooooooooooo TEAM!!!
Cheerleader for many surgeon's......(just spent the day doing volunteer work for Dr. Fang and Dr. Juarez!)
Heh... I've been waiting for you to add your penny to the conversation.
~~With your glorified "research"......my guess is that you know each of us personally and that we are all employees of our Revision surgeon? ~~
Put up or shut up, it's about time, don't you think? Where did I claim the others are employees of Dr. S? Quote it. Seriously, copy and quote the accusation or you can apologize. Seriously, I'll let you. ;o) Try your best to be an adult and admit your errors.
Speaking of research... Someone has been helping me with a bit of that today. I have a question for you here:
~~ used to work in the same building as Dr. S and I know oodles of his patient's who have had lap procedures.~~
Hmmmm.... Care to finish that comment? You have to admit, it would make for an interesting conversation. Don't you think?
I know you switch teams annually, started out with Simpson and all the regs know the rest. Care to expand on this one for those who don't know? You sure you want to stick with the concept that you merely worked in the same building? Sure you don't want to tell the rest of that one?
You know, I recall before I was banded. I wrote on another board I picked MX. You PMed me telling me the horrors of going to MX. Turns out, it would have been a horror for me to go to your (then) employer as you wanted me to. Why not write it on the boards that you want people to go to your employer of the year? I mean, you do change teams annually, right? If you are working for Simpson everyone must go to Simpson. Then when you change employers everyone must go to that doctor.
BTW... I forget again... Speaking of Mexico, who was Simpson's proctor surgeon? Do be a sweetie and remind me, will you? ;o)
Same Old .....DONE! Movin on to happy posting.... Joyce Rny 2/11/03-> ERny 12/26/07-> Duodenal Switch 5/12/2010
www.dsfacts.com , www.dssurgery.com , & www.duodenalswitch.com
On December 7, 2008 at 10:43 PM Pacific Time, JRinAZ wrote:
Same Old .....DONE! Movin on to happy posting....Same old Joyce, at least you haven't changed one bit since you were pushing Simpson on everyone. But that was what... three jobs ago?
(deactivated member)
on 12/7/08 3:30 pm - AZ
on 12/7/08 3:30 pm - AZ
Michelle,
Can't you just drop it already. Why don't you go to the DS site and stir up trouble like you normally do. Give this site a break. Try to be positive.
Can't you just drop it already. Why don't you go to the DS site and stir up trouble like you normally do. Give this site a break. Try to be positive.
On December 7, 2008 at 11:30 PM Pacific Time, Dawn B. wrote:
Michelle,Can't you just drop it already. Why don't you go to the DS site and stir up trouble like you normally do. Give this site a break. Try to be positive.
Get a clue.
One happy note, people warned me that you aren't the brightest color in the crayon box. You prove them true. Want links?
Most Active
Recent Topics
