Gallbladder issues years post RNY

Hi everyone! New to this forum. I'm going to apologize in advance for the long read but would really like to pick some brains in here and get some input from those that have experience and/or first-hand knowledge with our concerns/situation.

First a little background. My husband had RNY in 2002. He lost 141 lbs. initially...was 306 at time of surgery, lowest weight was 165 lbs. (which, we both felt was too thin for his build) and he is currently 212 lbs. Over the years he's had some issues and challenges due to this surgery. Dumping syndrome and malabsorption are at the top of the list. He's struggled with keeping calcium and vitamin D in check...and as a result has suffered with high PTH and kidney stones due to his body sucking calcium from his bones to compensate for the shortage of calcium and vitamin D in his daily diet...which has also caused osteopenia (bone density loss). Keeping B12 levels in check was a challenge initially...but mostly because his doctors were clueless about B12 supplementation and after much research by me is no longer an issue. We've also finally got his vitamin D and calcium in check as well.

Here's our current situation/dilemma. He's having gallbladder issues. We've known he's had gallstones for a long time now...pretty much since his RNY surgery. Yes, we were told that he would more than likely develop gallstones after the surgery...and he did. We were also told that he didn't need to do anything about it unless the gallstones became a problem. Well, they've recently become a problem...sludge, gallstones and thickened wall. Docs are saying his gallbladder needs to come out. After much reading, this is concerning. Obviously, the gallbladder has a job to do and a pretty important one at that. So, we're not taking this lightly since this would be, yet, another change to his digestive system and life. Most people are like, 'what's the big deal, just take it out'...however, with the malabsorption issues that one has with gastric bypass, removing the gallbladder will only add to the issue where the absorption of fat soluble vitamins are concerned (vitamin A, D, E and K). Not to mention the liver issues and other gut issues that can occur with removing the gallbladder. After much reading, there are many people that have had their gallbladders removed that say they have suffered with many digestive issues, liver issues and leaky gut issues for years and wish they had searched for an alternative...and these are people that haven't had gastric bypass. Gallbladder removal is one of the most performed surgeries and most docs will not look for an alternative to surgery...especially if it's a natural alternative. We're aware that if there are no alternative options that it will, more than likely, have to come out...but we'd like to explore other options first.

I've read some things that people have tried with great success in lieu of surgery...but these are people that haven't had gastric bypass. So, we're looking to you all for some insight, experience and input. Here are our questions. Please feel free to answer any that you personally have experience with. Thanks!

1. Have any of you tried the gallbladder cleanse/flush POST gastric bypass surgery? And if so, what were your results? How did your stomach react to the cleanse? Many people have had a lot of success with this and avoided gallbladder removal with this cleanse. Some say they had to do the cleanse more than once and will do it once a year or so to keep things in check but they were still able to keep their gallbladders. There are different variations of the cleanse so I'm providing the one we're asking about:

Days 1 - 6: Drink 1 qt of apple juice each day for 6 days. Drink the apple juice in addition to your regular diet. There is no specific time that you must drink it - you can drink it throughout the day. The apple juice contains limonoid which helps soften any gallstones and alleviate any pain you are experiencing.

On the 6th day: Do not eat anything after 6 pm. At 6 pm, take 1 Tbsp Epsom salt with a full glass of water. Mix the Epsom salt in the water - it takes a bit of stirring.

At 8 pm repeat 1 Tbsp Epsom salt with a full glass of water.

At 10 pm - mix and drink quickly, 4 oz. olive oil and 4 oz. lemon juice.

Go to bed and in the morning you will pass any gallstones you may have. The Epsom salt acts as a laxative to quickly remove the gallstones from the intestinal tract.

2. I've read a lot about the cleanse and I'm aware that there is information out there that says this is a hoax and doesn't work but I've also read many, many success stories of people that were scheduled for surgery and did the cleanse and were able to keep their gallbladders...which, of course, is much better than putting your body through surgery and potentially more digestive and malabsorption health issues. It's worth a try and worst case scenario would still be surgery...but at least he tried to save it. So, please, we're just looking to see if anyone that's had gastric bypass surgery has ever done the gallbladder cleanse POST GASTRIC BYPASS. My husband's concerns are whether he can handle drinking the olive oil/lemon juice mixture. Some people claim it makes them sick and want to vomit but that it does work once you get past feeling yucky. My husband hasn't been able to vomit since his RNY.

3. I've also read that taking Super Enzymes and Ox Bile can help get rid of sludge to help clear things up in your gallbladder. My husband started taking them earlier this week and feels it's helping. Anyone have experience with this?

4. I've also read doing this can help: two teaspoons of apple cider vinegarand one teaspoon of lemon juice to a glass of warm water. Drink it on an empty stomach in the morning. Doing this regularly for weeks can dissolve gallstones and prevent pain. Anyone tried this and had success?

5. Okay, if he does end up having his gallbladder removed, I've read that Super Enzymes and Ox Bile are vitally important to help him digest his food and, hopefully, help with fat soluble vitamin absorption. I'm sure you all know that the function of a gallbladder is to store bile and provide the right amount of bile you need when you've eaten for digestion...especially those fatty foods...which is why most people suffer from diarrhea after gallbladder removal. Super Enzymes work to help keep your liver and pancreas healthy and Ox Bile assists with bile you need to digest your food since you will no longer have a store of it in your gallbladder but rather your liver will continuously be providing bile to your gut even when you don't eat. Anyone taking these supplements? If so, how are they working for you?

6. If you had your gallbladder removed POST gastric bypass, can you please share anything you feel might be useful? Any issues? Digestive or otherwise? Malabsorption of fat soluble vitamins POST gall bladder removal? Liver and/or pancreas issues? How far out of gallbladder removal are you? Differences before gallbladder removal versus after...only for those that had gallbladder removed POST gastric bypass surgery? I believe most docs are removing the gallbladder when they're doing the RNY now. This was not the protocol when my husband had his done or his doc didn't feel the need to remove it during surgery.

Really hoping to find some people that tried the cleanse...whether it worked for them or not...to see if they were able to handle the olive oil/lemon juice mixture and what comes after drinking it. Hopefully we can gather some helpful information to make an educated decision. Grateful for forums like these! Have a good one all! Again, apologies for the long read.

I had my gallbladder removed ten years after surgery. I had one stone and some sludge. The surgeon told me that I would not see or feel any different and he was right. People who eat high fat diets have more problems after gallbladder surgery, but I was on and still on a low fat diet.

I had the surgery in the morning, went home in the afternoon, never needed a pain pill and was fine the next day.

Thanks for your response. Glad to hear everything went well for you.

My understanding is that once the gallbladder malfunctions, it doesn't get any better. I had my gallbladder out two months post RnY, and have never had an issue.

Thanks for your input. Happy that all went well for you.

Miscellaneous thoughts from a science POV:

"Natural" does not mean better. The natural state of humans is to die at the ripe old age of 30.

"Leaky gut" is not a scientifically-confirmed thing.

The "gallbladder cleanse" is a load of hooey. Regarding the success stories you've read-- the placebo effect is a very real thing, and probably what's happened in those cases. Don't waste your time.

ACV does not dissolve gallstones. If it was that easy, doctors wouldn't bother with other (science-based) treatment options!

Where exactly have you read about "Super Enzymes" or ox bile? Are these reputable medical/scientific research sites? I suspect not. I have read zero scientific support for the use of Super Enzymes or Ox Bile. If they were so important to have, gastroenterologists would prescribe them by default for everyone who has their GB out... so the fact that they don't is very telling.

I had my GB out several years prior to surgery. I have not had diarrhea, I have not needed any special medicines. There are lots of folks on the forums in the same situation.

If you want to make an appropriately "educated decision," get off the Internet and speak with a doctor.

I figured I'd get some "miscellaneous thoughts". While I understand "natural" does not mean better. There are also instances where it actually is better. I have family members and know of others (personally, not on the internet) that suffered with diarrhea and other side effects post gallbladder removal, they just didn't have RNY and I wanted to get some feedback from those that have had RNY...but, I'm glad it worked out well for you and you didn't have these issues.

I can appreciate your opinion, however, I have no intention of taking your advice about getting off the internet. I can't tell you how many times the internet has saved our butts. I know you don't know me but I'm actually smart enough to know reputable sites from the others. I have no fight with science but I'm also open-minded enough and intelligent enough to understand that nature and science can co-exist and someone doesn't have to necessarily choose one way of thinking or the other. Since you don't know me, my husband or our lives and what our life experiences have been, other than what I shared in my post nor do you know or understand what our experiences with doctors has been I can kind of see why you replied the way you did...oh, and also your love for science. I've now lost count as to how many times doctors led myself, my husband or other family members health down the wrong path. One doctor dismissed my husbands cancer recurrence as 'there was no way he had cancer again because he was too far out from his initial diagnosis for his cancer to have come back'...wrong, very wrong...and this from a veteran doctor that has treated other patients with the same kind of cancer...scary. And that's just one instance. So your advice about speaking with a doctor...well, we do speak with doctors...we just don't take their word as gospel. They're human and make mistakes regardless of that medical degree hanging on their wall. We advocate for our own health. I'm also aware of placebo effects and actually do believe it's a very real thing...but again...I'm also open to believing otherwise...meaning, sometimes it's absolutely not a placebo effect and it actually just worked. One of the things I've learned in life is that some things just can't be explained...even in the world of science...although, I understand science lovers may disagree...and that's okay too. Although you didn't really have anything constructive to add...and certainly nothing I didn't already expect at least one person to say...thanks for taking your time to share your opinion. Once again, I'm glad it worked out well for you. Keep on preaching if that's what makes you happy. No harm done here.

Believe whatever you like.

I sincerely hope that your husband finds relief as soon as possible.

Thank you...I will. And we're hoping that he gets relief soon as well.

That is a lot of hostility and anger toward sensible advice. I seldom see 'science lover' as an insult. I am uncertain why you reacted to Julie's advice in that way. She in no way insulted you.

Since you are smart enough to know reputable sites, I assume you are also aware of the risks of a malfunctioning gallbladder, not to mention the pain a gallbladder attack or a stone stuck in a bile duct can cause.

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