Ketosis Issues

 This is a very important post. I would ask that you read it through.   When we go see our WL Doctors, we are given THEIR approved diet plan that is safe for all of us to use. Should you decide to make changes in it. It is very important to notify, and to get approval from your nutritionist and to follow ALL advice of your WL doctor. You are going to pay or have paid out the Gazzo for a surgery to help save your life so it is important to know all you can about what you do next. I just know that my Doctor pays a nutritionist for something and my guess is that it is for my best interest.....After all, he does have a degree. This information is not about an age category, weight catagory, or a diet program. It is about a serious condition called Ketosis. I will answer this up before I am slammed....Yes, I know that after surgery we are going to be on a low carb lifestyle for life. I am well aware of it, but we are also to live on a healthy diet plan, designed by our doctors and nuts,  constisting of all the foods our tummy's can cope with and that we are TOLD TO LIVE ON FOREVER.  I have never heard of trying to force ketosis by a doctor after the surgery and I wouldn't think it would be healthy, or necessary if you follow the Doctors plan.... I would however ask your doctor about it for sure before attempting it.! Shoot you paid him the big bucks...He should know...Right?   Below are bits and pieces to help you better understand some things about an urgent issue called Ketosis. You may not be aware of this, but Dr. Robert Atkins (the inventor of this diet concept) died from major organ failure, he was obese, and was known to be suffering from congestive heart failure and hypertension. This does not sound like a healthy man?  When your cells can’t get glucose (a kind of sugar) to burn for energy, they burn fat instead. This leaves behind acids called ketones in your blood and urine. A buildup of ketones can cause a dangerous condition called ketoacidosis. Your healthcare team may ask you to check for ketones.

Here is a quote from a friend on this board, concerning her children: I have 2 insulin dependant children who were diagnosed at 11 years old.  I didn't get full blown diabetes until about 2 years ago.  They will NEVER be able to kick their disease because it is type 1 and their pancreas died and they make no insulin.  The ketosis did almost kill my daughter twice.  While in ketosis she drops all kinds of weight (she liked that part) but becomes so very very very sick. 

  You will hear both sides to this discussion many times on this board and everywhere else. This is not my opninion concerning this....They are facts, facts from doctors and from people who have lived it! Yes, a millitant low carb diet can work, no one has ever said it doesn't. However; at what price? One must know that this type of radical dieting, can and often does cause problems. If you want to do it...fine but you must know what to watch out for! I decided to post this to at least give you a look at what damages can occur should a person decide they want to push themselves into  "hardened ketosis". Especially if you are diabetic which many pre-op's are.  I am not sitting here offering up medical advice, but this information is especially important for the boards right now! I want each of you to know that this information is vital.   THIS and only this has ever been my problem with the "militant plan" that is being offered up on this board. As I said, I know the diet can work....but read  the blurbs below.  The key to any of this, is to check with YOUR Doctor before doing anything or at least YOUR nutritionist involved in YOUR case. Each case if different. I am just asking that you read below. Losing weight becomes the main focus often at the risk of further issues. Many people become obsessed with a type of fear of carbs, like they are actually evil.....Carbs are not evil if eating the right types. Here is one link, then there is more info below, but type in ketosis into your search engine, and you will find many good things and many many bad! You make the decisions, but just be informed. http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/medical/ketosis.htm   Just read for yourself The reason ketosis works, is because it makes your body think you are starving, and your body will start to run off of the fat from the food you eat, instead of sugar. but there is a fine line,  if you go too far, you could go into Acidtosis and start throwing up sips of water and virtually anything else you put in your mouth. this will cause dehydration, and there is nothing healthy about it. 

  Nedlog Male/26/Ontarionedlog1
Apr 01 2008 11:56
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My son is 2 1/2 years old right now,  he has epilepsy, and he is on the ketogenic diet to contol seizures. this is a very dangerous diet that needs to be controled and followed by a team of doctors and nutritionists.  the key for getting into the ketogenic stage, is by starving yourself for a few days, and then eating VERY small portions of these high fat, low sugar, low carb foods. The reason ketosis works, is because it makes your body think you are starving, and your body will start to run off of the fat from the food you eat, instead of sugar. but there is a fine line,  if you go too far, you could go into Acidtosis and start throwing up sips of water and virtually anything else you put in your mouth. this will cause dehydration, and there is nothing healthy about it. when my son started this diet, he hit Acidtosis and ended up in the hospital, with IV hydration and a feeding tube in his nose.Right now, he has a team of a nutritionist, and 4 Pediatric Neurologists following him through this diet.If I could give you any advise, it would be to stop - if you've started.  Yes it does take time to lose weight, but  you don't need your body to jump start. by simply switching from bad food to good food is enough to kick start your body.

 

Further more ketosis is a condition that diabetics must avoid because of the damage it does to the kidneys and they tend to avoid carbs with no natural insulin or ODing on insulin.

Having said that, the atkins diet also takes a huge amount of discipline and should only be undertaken under the supervision of health professionals, since it has been proved to put an enormous a strain on the liver (where all fats in the diet are processed). If you have any kind of liver disease or weakness do not use this diet to lose weight.

American Dietetic Association, among Atkins' critics over the years states "You can also burn muscle, and body protein can be in the form of muscle -- your heart muscle."

The researchers also expressed concern about the high-protein diet in the long term, because of its possible effect on the kidneys and other body functions.

It takes your body at least 3 days to get into ketosis stage according to my doctor. Sugar, and bad carbs take you out of this stage.  A strict protien only diet will put you there the quickest.  I am on a medically supervised weightloss program and have to check my ketosis level daily.  If I am at a high level of ketosis for several days that means I am most likely dehydrated.

ketosis can lead to ketoacidosis, which can be fatal.

I'm pretty sure you could put your body into ketosis eating nothing but nuts and cheese. But you'd also make it malnourished at the same time.
 

Glucose, a simple sugar that comes from carbohydrates, is fuel for your brain. To keep thinking straight, the IOM says, children and adults should eat at least 130 grams (520 calories) of carbohydrates a day. Many low-carb diets call for no more than 20 to 30 grams of carbohydrates each day.

 

When to Check for Ketones

Ketones in your blood or urine mean that you don’t have enough insulin in your body. You may need to check for ketones when:

• Your blood sugar is above 240 mg/dL (milligrams per deciliter).

• You are ill or under stress.

• You have diarrhea (loose stools), stomach pain, or are vomiting.

• You are very thirsty or need to urinate often.

• If your blood or urine shows ketones, call your healthcare provider as directed

I think this is all very informative information and we should all take it to heart.  The most important thing we can get from all this is to be sure and check with our doctors and nutritionists before trying anything that is not within their specific guidelines.  A lot of research and work have gone into each facility's practice and their particular guidelines.  I know at WeightWise they have the total package with their surgeons, hospital, nurses, nutritionists and other staff and now their own on site endocrinologist.  I think anything other than their recommended diet and nutritional plans should get their approval and blessings before proceeding.  

At WeightWise they have not been able to wear the crown of "no mortalities to date" by doing anything off the cuff!!  Like was said earlier...we have all "paid a lot of money" for expert advice and we know where to call!!!  Just check it all out and be safe!!!  We all have done this for one reason only....to get healthy!  If we don't have our health when this is all completed then who cares if we get "skinny"??    

Great point Debbie!

Thank you so much for posting this Sher. I wanted to lose the weight so bad that I was willing to do anything radical. Now that I have had the surgery, I don't want to mess anything up. I have noticed many saying they are eating things that according to my doctor,weren't to ever be eaten again....I find it confusing. I know each doctor is different but are they that different?

My theory on this is that we should tell the good things we are eating to keep us on track and not tell us the the cheating stuff for fear that others will see it and think they can do it too...It just so confusesing to me. I guess my nut is the best resource though.

I just want to be safe and if it takes longer doing it right, then I am ok with that.

This was a great read and I appreciate your concerns for the board. I just found this board and I am so glad that we can hear all sides to things. Thanks for sharing.

Angelia

Welcome to our board Angelia (OneShrinkingMama)!  I hope we can be of value to you with our many comments.  We hope to never stear anyone in the wrong direction or scare any newby's off.  I know this board was a valuable source of support for me prior to surgery and has been especially since my surgery.  We all do things just a "tad" different because our tummies respond differently to things we eat.  I think overall we for the most part try to follow the plan that is designed by our nutritionist.  I didn't loos my weight in 2 months but haven't been dissappointed in the almost 10 months it has taken either.  In fact, I am overjoyed.  I don't know if I could had handled it emotionally if it has fell off in a couple of months!!!  LOL  Anyway, the journey is an awesome one and I do hope we can be of help to you in the following months.  Are you close to a surgery date?  I do hope so and wish you all the luck in the world.  Life as you know it will not be the same....I'd do this all over again in a heart beat!!!

Deb (aka Fleemore)

I have had my surgery. I had it in Oct and am doing quite well. thank you. . I lurked here for a month before my surgery,  like many say on here and it did help me before the surgery and after. I saw some post that mentiond something about preops don't know about weight loss, but I learned alot on here before my surgery that was a big help and to me, encouragement can come at anytime.

Thanks for the Welcome.

Angi

I sure hope that this thread wasnt prompted because i asked T to PM with a few pantry ideas to jump start my diet again because if it is let me tell you.... I DO LISTEN TO MY DR! And needless to say when i seen him in Nov he said I was doing great he had no worries. it was soon after my plateau started.I am not a stupid fool and I do not do things without first consulting my drs!!!!! We are all entitled to our opinions and every time someone asks T advice you post somthing like this. I mean no disrespect to anyone here but we are all here for the same reasons, none of us have to like how the other person is choosing to deal with the tool they have been given. Please do not judge others because they look up to someone or respect someone for the way they did things. We are all fully aware that there are consquences for our actions. Instead of mother henning us when we has him advice, simply ignore the thread and keep going to the other ones.  I tried to ignore the last time as much as possible but seeing I was the one to ask his advice this time it kinda hits close to home. Like it or not we arent all going to like the other persons views we just have to learn to respect them!

 

Have a lovely day!

Sassy, I didnt' mean anything at all by my response.  I just know that we all do what we do for the most part because it works for us and we all have different docs and nuts!  I personally think you have done AWESOME.  I remember meeting you back in the fall at the meet and greet in Tulsa and you looked GREAT.  I know you must feel so much better....I hope your back is healing and you can soon get on with life after back surgery.  My DH had that surgery a couple of years ago and he feels like a new man...but it took him a while to get there!  Have a great weekend!!!  Keep on keeping on.  I know for me the closer I get to the "light" the slower it gets for me....  I hope I can kick it up a notch as well. 

This topic didn't seem to be addressing anyone, only a subject

Maybe I missed something, but I thought this informations was very informative. I thought that it was just a reminder to becareful when using that diet. I had no idea this post said anything but that. Why would this be a topic to ignore. Am I confused about this or is there something I don't know here? I just found this a great topic.
I guess I am to new to know what some of these statements mean. I just am glad to know this and what to look for.
Sorry
Angi