Insights on a paper I recently read by a friend on the societal awareness of fat people...

I just had a wife of a friend call me out of Dallas to lt me know he had a heart attack.....27, young, super fun, killer attitude, who i've known for nearly 20 years,and a brother to me.  He's also fat...he knows it....i know it...  it's an unspoken kindred point between us.  In fact we would have competitions to see who could his money's' worth at Chinese buffets....  I'm so pissed at myself...  i'd pull all of my weight off by hardcore dieting, then i'd join him again... 

Ya know.....i've got a few things that get under my skin,  I've noticed some changes that I can seem to shake.....   I'm judgemental about certain things.... 

I was lucky before surgery...I would lose weight by going on my militant form of Atkins and pull off my 80 lbs, (about 3 months worth of a diet), then once the diet reached it's goal, I'd pack it back on by not working out, and eating every carb known to modern man....my appetite knew no bounds when I was off diet...

I got tired of the cycle, (thus the reason I had surgery)...  however, my "hang-up" is this...  everything that I see is excess......excess portions, excess sugars, excess, excess, excess...  It's like we're purposefully programed to fail...on one hand we're expected to be skinny..and to weak things that fit people that we see are popular on TV....then on the other hand, all of our favorite food spots push these portions of our favorites choices in from of us....we're expected to have more restraint...but wait...  I CHOSE this meal...my favorite choice on their menu....

difficult...embarassing to know I had such little restraint....  2 main weaknesses in my life...food, which I'll always have a maintenance plan...and women...I've cured one of them, (with a lifetime commitment to maintenance) and only the right woman would fix the other fatal weakness.

The point I'm trying to make, is that I'm OCD about the way I approach my flaws and try to fix them.... my OCD is directing the way that I approached my commitment to handling the food I eat... but it hasn't stopped my disust of how American Culture is killing itself one plate at a time...  in fact, i can't get one image out of my mind.....  I went to a Chili's in Puerto Rico only to have and order of broccoli and  water...but this lady next to me ordered the "chicken fried steak dinner" (one of my previous favorites), and it was so HUGE I couldn't et over the fact she was eating it and how she basically licked the plate clean.  I was disgusted....not with her as the person but the process in which she found it to be OK to engorge herself then you could hear her strained breathing as she tried to exit the restaurant.  She is any of us and I have been in her shoes...... unfortunately there's very little I could change in our culture of excessive eating....  It's so frustrating to go to the pharmacy only to see sugary candied pralines right next to the diabetes section.  Sure I'm ranting....sure i'll rave in my head about the "establishment" but I feel powerless to ever say anything about it.  It's really just an opinion....but I recently read a wonderful pape by a friend who wrote about the social impacts of being fat....

How to make an impact?  Say something?  I don't think so...  If someone would have told me to put down my rack of ribs from Elmer's "it be bad" BBQ, I would have slapped them so hard their momma would have felt it....then I would have devoured their plate of ribs too.... What's that answer? 

How does the person who is weazing not know they are out of breath when they are walking?  I'm sure they know...i'm certain they know...  what would happen if I offered them help?  Would they accept it?  Would they hate me for offering to help?  Would they be too embarassed to know accept help because their roble is so personal?  Because their attachment to food is like an old friend that I once loved too?  What a tangled web we weave....  I have fat friends who i would never judge....but I'll be damned if I can't judge those establishments who push thier ultra huge portions on our culture....  It's no wonder the other countries hate us...  Americans are the saviours of the world yet we're the fattest nation by a huge distance compared to all other nations.  Next time you're in Chili's look at that plate of Chicken Fried Steak... imagine how many carbs are really there....not the nutritional breakdown by chili's but the real food....the real things lurking under the gravy, the amount of extra grease that will be absorbed in the batter...the real amounts of fats....the ridiculous portions... now how do you feel for the person eating it?  I felt sad.....an old reminder of who i was..... So is it ok to judge? 

Sure.....I've walked in their shoes...  I wish someone would have said something earlier to me that gave a real example of how much more difficult life was during my excessive eating.  It's like a spanking..... we all knew we deserved it....and for a short time, we hated the person giving it to us.....but now that we know better, we love them even more for giving us the spanking we deserved in the first place....  next time I'm in that situation...i'm creatin a social "faux-paux"...I want them to know how I changed.....  that I had the power all along to change to become empowered.  end rant...

T.

Wow. I haven't posted here before but your rant is exactly the way I thought the last time I was in a restaurant (nov). The people at the table next to ours were quite overweight, with two little boys who you could see were starting down the same path, and I couldn't help myself but notice the food they were ordering--junky, carb-heavy, huge portions, etc. Of course I wasn't judging them per se (I figured that people will deal with their demons in their own time, or just that they had maybe given up like I had before, so on), but I was still a little miffed that they and everyone else eats that way without a moment's thought...but mostly just sad for them.

Then I heard the husband/boyfriend comment about a 12-year-old girl who had had liposuction, and while the issue is a debate in and of itself, the guy and the woman made very negative comments about her weight ("OMG how can a 12 year old be that huge", etc) while simultaneously ignoring the fact that they shared the same problem and digging into the wrong foods. And -that- made me angry.

Just a side rant ^^)/ Anyway, hello to you all.

T
I am right there with you.  I so much relate to everything you just said.  I told my husband the other day when I see someone over weight I just want to pull them aside and tell them that life can be so much better.  But for fear of hurting someone I hate to do it.  I hated this sugery the first 3 months because I had so many problems.  But now I would not change it for the world and wish I could have had it done years ago.  Well I just wanted to chime in and tell you that you are not the only one that feels this way.

Heather

Everything you wrote I have experienced, fought about quietly, disgusted over and kept my mouth shut about - sometimes in the same moment!

YES we knew we were wheezing when we walked out of the restaraunt after eating those huge meals, YES if you had offered us help we would have been angry (and silently embarassed), YES the portions in America are TOOOOOO large!!  I saw a national news TV show the other day line out the top 10 WORSE restaraunt meals - guess what was #1 - THE BLOOMING ONION from Outback!!!  Over 2900 calories!!!  I can't remember the fat content or the sodium - but it was only because I was grossed out by that many calories!!  UGH!

I went to a c/w dance club the other night and was visibly disgusted by the "muffin tops" of the girls (I say girls because they were 20 years younger than me) and they appeared PROUD to put on tight jeans and shirts!!  There was one little lady who I wanted to escort (myself) to FBH for surgery immediately!  She didn't even realize her pannus was hanging to her knees?????  OMG!!  And then I had to just shut up and keep my thoughts to myself because then I couldn't understand how hypocritical I could be after being so heavy myself!!!  I want to hand out cards and YELL to the rooftops to go (as quickly as you can) see my surgeon!!! 

Yes, it is a form of reverse discrimination!!  But, knowing where I have been and where I am now - I wonder - how the heck did I NOT KNOW I was so huge????  But what can we do know - other than continue to advocate for changes in our society - insurance - government (plug for OAC here) and keep being advertisements for our surgeons?  And you guys wonder what keeps me going sometimes??  When a lot of long term WLS patients just wander away - I just can't do it! I want to get as many of us as possible to this place in their lives!!  Make them healthier, happier, better!!  

But how can we NOT feel disgusted?  Somebody tell me so I can stop!!  It almost hurts to watch people eat like that now!

R 

In most cases. People wont listen as they aren't ready yet or they flat out don't have the money to even consider it.  Who knows all the reasons. I had to have 3 stents in my heart and have diabetes with consequences before I got desperate to live!! WLS was a dream and only my mother allowed me to look forward to this dream.  I have damaged my heart and body by the excess dieting, trying to lose the weight....I won't go into some of the damage I have done as it doesn't matter....I am doing this soon!  My own son is fit as a fiddle....perfect size as are my daughters....yet they all have coles. and other issues....Why? It's in their genes!!! Not their weight....Not all heart attacks come from being fat....Most do yes...but not all....Judging them won't make them change at all.....My mother tried for years to look down on me....It only divided us. Judging a person will only push them away, not open their eyes. You now live from example. Ruth is a perfect example of someone who carries the picture of her in her purse to show others how far she came to be where she is now.....That is how a person can change others.

Ok T. I must say this, as it is eating at me inside. I love you to pieces and admire you for all you can and do in life. Like I have said before....to know you is to still love who you are...I admire you for wanting to change so many lives...You are a wonderful giving man....BUT....Though you can pull off 80 lbs by going on Atkins when ever you wanted, and can still do the same to stop a stall. Sure you look great, BUT  do you have any idea what that does to your body on the insides?? I pray that you have not damaged your heart or kidneys by your drastic past behaviors, but not only that, I pray that those listening to your drastic measures of dieting,  don't damage their own hearts, kidneys or cause other issues with them.   I hate seeing you offer up all this no carb, high protein advice, without also offering up the consequenses of following a diet such as that. You, in a way, are offering up medical advice that can damage  a person.  I know you want to help so many people, change their lives, you want to save them from what you have gone through...That is a great thing. Most of us on here are so desperate to lose this weight they we will and do  try any diet anyone offers to help.  It kills me to hear the desperation in their words, because I am there too....I still am, but I am not so desperate to break a stall or drop 80 lbs by damaging my kidneys or my heart or even kill myself, by doing so...
Please T. if you want to offer up the drastic diet plan, offer up what the side effects can be too. If you really want to help these people who need encouragement.....tell them both sides so they can know what to watch for in case something begins to go wrong! It is vital information to help them.
We all love you and we all feel your excitement in what you do and how you want to help, but these are people's lives. Any age can suffer from drastic measures of anything...Like you feel you want to help people change.....I want to see you also tell people what can happen to them if they choose this route. The people on this board need and want your advice, but T., please tell them what to look for so they don't just push on to lose the weight and ignore warning signs that something is going wrong.
Please don't be upset with me for writing this here. I think in your excitement to help others, you just have overlooked the need to tell the consequenses of it all too. One can't be told without the other or Dr.'s W. and B would be telling everyone to do this too..........The reason I wrote this is that so many on here have reached out to you for help and you are great to help them..... I want all of them to also understand it can be damaging....Please read the information from the Web Dr. below....I also got this same info from my Urologist so it's not just something I made up....its a fact.  Once they know the facts...then they can decide to jump on the total protein wagon or to do what the Dr.s have told them to do and follow the Nut's advice. Please read below.....

By restricting carbohydrates drastically to a mere fraction of that found in the typical American diet, the body goes into a different metabolic state called ketosis, whereby it burns its own fat for fuel. Normally the body burns carbohydrates for fuel -- this is the main source of fuel for your brain, heart and many other organs. A person in ketosis is getting energy from ketones, little carbon fragments that are the fuel created by the breakdown of fat stores. When the body is in ketosis, you tend to feel less hungry, and thus you're likely to eat less than you might otherwise. However, ketosis can also cause health problems, such as kidney failure (see below).

As a result, your body changes from a carbohydrate-burning engine into a fat-burning engine. So instead of relying on the carbohydrate-rich items you might typically consume for energy, and leaving your fat stores just where they were before (alas, the hips, belly, and thighs), your fat stores become a primary energy source. The purported result is weight loss.

High protein diets can cause a number of health problems, including:

• Kidney failure. Consuming too much protein puts a strain on the kidneys, which can make a person susceptible to kidney disease.
• High cholesterol. It is well known that high protein diets (consisting of red meat, whole dairy products, and other high fat foods) are linked to high cholesterol. Studies have linked high cholesterol levels to an increased risk of developing heart disease, stroke and cancer.
• Osteoporosis and kidney stones. High protein diets have also been shown to cause people to excrete more calcium than normal through their urine. Over a prolonged period of time, this can increase a person's risk of osteoporosis and kidney stones.
• Cancer. One of the reasons high protein diets increase the risks of certain health problems is because of the avoidance of carbohydrate-containing foods and the vitamins, minerals, fiber and anti-oxidants they contain. It is therefore important to obtain your protein from a diet rich in whole grains, fruits and vegetables. Not only are your needs for protein being met, but you are also helping to reduce your risk of developing cancer.
• Unhealthy metabolic state (ketosis). Low carb diets can cause your body to go into a dangerous metabolic state called ketosis since your body burns fat instead of glucose for energy. During ketosis, the body forms substances known as ketones, which can cause organs to fail and result in gout, kidney stones, or kidney failure. Ketones can also dull a person's appetite, cause nausea and bad breath.

Oh girl, i don't get upset for people writing the truth about the low carb thing....after all, the low carb thing does let you re-introduce carbs back into the plan, it just takes time.  it's one of the unknown factors of what Dr Atkins did back when this whole low carb thing started...people only remeber that it severely cut the amounts of carbs but thy way his plan works is to reintroduce carbs SLOWLY back into a person's system  only after the fat burnng machine has been turned back on..then increase the carb load 5 gms per wee****il weightloss levels off and a person gains a pound or so back, then they know their personal amount of carbs they can eat in a day.

So of course I'm not upset...   The way that I did it was truly bad...  that's why I was stuck in a cycle....huge weightloss, then I'd gorge myself with the wrong things instead of following the plan like was suggested.  I perverted the system thinking that my way was better...which it was only in the short-term and you're right, it can do damage if people don't follow the plan as it's written by the doc himself...

But I do want you to go back and read how people are allowed to eat carbs, and are allowed to cheat a tiny bit, so it's not all doom and gloom, it's about reestablishing the burning of fat before you eat the carbs slowly back in their systems.  So I do tell them they can have it, just not within the first two weeks....those people who have the stalls hanging over them have all had them broken by the same methods that I used, and one lady who follows my plan to a "t" in Tx had to lose 55 pounds presurgery, has lost 72 pounds in 4 months and in the end, she was eating 160 grams of carbs per week per my plan, so I understand the end result and how even my militant plan must have carbs reintroduced to be a healthy part o a sensible diet.  I only want to support those who would give anything to have the surgery to be able to rely on their tool to help give them the last step they need to get back on track.

See ya!

T.

I guess you missed my concerns....It is not about whether or not you get to reintroduce carbs, or can have small amounts of them in your diet....It is whether or not you are telling very vulnerable people that there can and often are consequences to following an all protein or very very low carb dieting. Sure it can and does drop many pounds quickly, BUT that is why many of us are where we are today.....YO YO dieting. YO YO dieting can and does do damage to a person over time. My concern here is not that you ever get carbs back into your diet...it is at what cost do you do this diet in the first place? 

Ýou say that you only want to support those who would give anything to have the surgery.....That is exactly what I am talking about. We are vulnerable people who would do anything at any cost to lose the weight to get to the surgery.....or afterwards to pull out of a stall. If you don't know the side effects...you don't know to go with it or avoid it. 
Years ago, I would have snorted baby powder if I thought it would cause me to lose weight.....Having had 3 stents in my heart, kidneys breaking down and severe diabetes I have learned to becareful with the paths I take to WL. I have learned. I needed to consult with my doctors before trying things...I have done what Jess has told me to do and added  even a little more protein to my diet. I have eaten more than I ever have and am losing at a safe rate for me. I am past my required amount and still have over a month to go...I am in onederland and still no surgery. After my surgery I have 50lbs to lose to be where I want to be..I know to many that seems like nothing....It will save my life to do this. .I have read all the success stories so I know this WLS works, if you do what the Dr's say. I trust my Doctor's and the Nutritionist to have me do what is in my best health interests.
Just like I have had to wait  until the end of January to have this surgery because my heart doctor says I need to. Sure I could go to Mexico because they don't care about my heart like I do, but in the end....the best end result is to do what MY doctor says to do. I guess I just feel that Dr. B and Dr. W. know what they are doing and I should listen to them....
I am talking about consequenses to this diet approach. Not bringing back carbs. I am talking about Kidney stones, loss of Kidney function, Kidney's  breaking down. Heart problems from the gains and losses. That is what I meant by my response to your first post.
I have no doubt that your friend lost over 70lbs....that is visual, but what about internal? A person can not keep doing that over and over without eventual health issues. That is all I am saying here Tomas, nothing about reintroducing carbs..... just warn people what the protein diet can cause, so that if they should have an issue, that they know what to look for or when to seek help. That is all. I would think that is also only right. I'm sorry if you misunderstood my concern that there were health issues here and not bringing back carbs issues. I just wanted to clear up what I was concerned about.
Please do not misunderstand this as being rude to you, but I just honestly feel that it is vital to warn people about what to look for. I mean it when I say you are a great guy with the biggest heart, that was the first thing I noticed about you...People are drawn to you so just make sure to give them the whole picture.
Sherry

Hi, Thomas.
The general American lifestyle is one of indulgence. It shows up everywhere, including on our dinner plate and on our body. I look at the starving children all over the world, and I ask myself how I can eat and eat, while so many go hungry.
As a born-again believer, I have been disgusted at myself, that I have, in essence, denied His lordship in my life with a knife and fork. For too long, I felt powerless over food.
I believe in God. I believe in Satan. I know that only God can help me deal with food issues. I know that Satan is ever ready to roll a stone over me, and he'll use any means he can--even food.
The medical community has tried, for years, to regulate restaurant portions, to push them to post calorie content, etc., and we're beginning to see some improvements. It's been slow, though, and that's because, as in most cases where change is being touted, the regulating groups are under the thumb of those with the money--businesses (food industry, in this case).
Until Americans, as a whole, become sick and tired of being sick and tired, and seeing their children follow behind them (sick and tired), the craziness will continue.
Maybe those of us who have had WLS and reached our goal (that's not me--yet) should wear some sort of badge, with a before and after picture and a quote that says: "Quit killing yourself. Ask me how." Real-life testimonies make a difference, one life at a time.
Hang in there, Thomas. Maybe you should go into politics, to try to make changes that way. Thomas for President--anyone? :)
Just breathe,
Mary

If you want to have a real heart breaker, go to a McDonald's on Sunday afternoon-and watch entire families of obese people load up.  Eating out became a treat in our popular culture, and McD's (in my opinion) targets and preys on low income families in particular....but the higher end restaurants really aren't any better.  People today do not know what a true portion size is and we must figure out a way to create more awareness without sounding preachy.  

My heart breaks for the children-who suffer the social effects long before they have any real knowledge or control over the science of weight. 

i know what you mean Deb. I am a single mom so my kids are going on a healthy diet too. LOL I do still splurge and get them a happy meal sometimes but for the most part so that I am not so tempted the junk is totally gone from the house. They drink sugar free drinks, they eat my sf jello and popcicles and eat them the same as they did the sugary ones. They have always eaten lots of fruits and vegtables thankfully.  my kids took after their dad's familoy or seem to hav eso far and are lucky to be on the skinny side. I do NOT ever want them to fight the weight issues I do. See I have been the fat kid since kindergarden and I hate it!