veterans adminstration and wls
After the Okie vet made his post. I decide to be the researcher nut that I am get the dirt.
So this is what I found out. The VA has a five step program for folks wanting to lose weight. AND WLS is the very last resort. Even if you qualify right off the bat they want you to go through the four steps before you can even be considered. Even if you qualify there are only limited amount of VA hospitals that do the surgery.
I am so ticked off about this! A person who is on Medicaid and meets all the conditions can get surgery faster to lose weight than a person who put their lives on the line can.
I am not being a snob or prejudice about this but why is our society allowing this to happen.
So this is what I found out. The VA has a five step program for folks wanting to lose weight. AND WLS is the very last resort. Even if you qualify right off the bat they want you to go through the four steps before you can even be considered. Even if you qualify there are only limited amount of VA hospitals that do the surgery.
I am so ticked off about this! A person who is on Medicaid and meets all the conditions can get surgery faster to lose weight than a person who put their lives on the line can.
I am not being a snob or prejudice about this but why is our society allowing this to happen.
being healthy has its rewards....take the challenge and just do it
Hi, Pattye.
Speaking for society (dumb, I know):
1) We don't know about it.
2) Even if we did know, how could we change it?
I feel so sorry for the vet who posted. He's clearly been fighting this for years. It is very shameful. Our nation does seem to be a nation that views the very old, the very young, and any other group deemed "no longer useful" as indispensible or, at least, worthy of being ignored.
We will be judged for it, I've no doubt...perhaps sooner than we can imagine. Sorry, I'm being so down. I've just been burdened today, with our nation.
Bless you for researching,
Mary
Speaking for society (dumb, I know):
1) We don't know about it.
2) Even if we did know, how could we change it?
I feel so sorry for the vet who posted. He's clearly been fighting this for years. It is very shameful. Our nation does seem to be a nation that views the very old, the very young, and any other group deemed "no longer useful" as indispensible or, at least, worthy of being ignored.
We will be judged for it, I've no doubt...perhaps sooner than we can imagine. Sorry, I'm being so down. I've just been burdened today, with our nation.
Bless you for researching,
Mary
"Don't tell God how big your storm is; tell your storm how BIG your God is!"
ObesityHelp Support Group Leader and Support Group Coach
ObesityHelp Support Group Leader and Support Group Coach
I am one of the few that get pissed when our government screws with our vets. Now that you know...call your senator or congressman and raise hell....thats how ya get stuff done. WHen I was 14 i called Jesse Helms a senator of NC and told his office of a another vet who was being mistreated. I sent letters and made calls. Six months later the vet got his pension...
to me I would rather die trying then sit by and say well its not my problem...because in reality its not just one person or one man's problem its all of ours
to me I would rather die trying then sit by and say well its not my problem...because in reality its not just one person or one man's problem its all of ours
being healthy has its rewards....take the challenge and just do it
Hi, Pattye.
I tend to forget that one persistent person can make a difference. Thank you for reminding me. Wouldn't it be cool if this OK Board would get behind the vet who posted and bug the OK state politicians so much that they do something, just to get us to go away! What do you say, Okies?
Blessings,
Mary
I tend to forget that one persistent person can make a difference. Thank you for reminding me. Wouldn't it be cool if this OK Board would get behind the vet who posted and bug the OK state politicians so much that they do something, just to get us to go away! What do you say, Okies?
Blessings,
Mary
"Don't tell God how big your storm is; tell your storm how BIG your God is!"
ObesityHelp Support Group Leader and Support Group Coach
ObesityHelp Support Group Leader and Support Group Coach
(deactivated member)
on 10/20/08 1:05 pm
on 10/20/08 1:05 pm
I think that there were a lot of healthcare promises made to vets that have not been met. Eventually, when enough research shows that it's cheaper to get the WLS than pay for the co morbidities, the various insurance programs will come around. Not saying it's right or wrong, just saying that's the economics of it.
But, as someone whose insurance did not cover WLS, I was really peeved and frustrated when I knew of people *****cieved medicaid funded surgeries-it's like there was no incentive for holding a job, having insurance, etc....or so it seemed at the time.
Then I decided that there were so many sides to all the stories and the world just isn't fair and the only thing I could do was take care of myself and that's what I did.
The entire US medical system is in serious need of an overhaul and silly me, I do believe that someone will eventually get around to it. There are some great pluses to our system, but I'd rather see (and forgive me if this sounds harsh)...but good, basic care for EVERYONE and fewer bells and whistles for the priveleged ones...and by basic care I mean better nutrition education, vaccines, etc. All those little roly poly kids I see in the schoolyard are a ticking social time bomb.
But first, we have to get healthy ourselves before we can even begin to help the others.
Deb I agree with what you wrote. What infuriates me is that I have seen single men and womwn who have worked all their lives denied medicaid but let someone have a child and POOF they get benefits. It should be no matter what if you are below a certain income you should get medical help.
Deb I lived in another apartment complex and this little boy could have been more that 5 was trying to ride a bike. He was so obesed that he could not lift his leg over the seat. Other kids were trying to help but there was no way they could get him on the bike. I went out and tried but he had to weigh at least 150 pounds cause I could not lift him up. he then tried to play hide and go seek ...he couldnt run...and when he tried he was out of breath and sweating profusely....His mom ame puling up with bags from Mcdonalds..he ATE 2 BIG MACS and a order of fries, not to mention the large soda..I got sick from watching him eat....
Deb I lived in another apartment complex and this little boy could have been more that 5 was trying to ride a bike. He was so obesed that he could not lift his leg over the seat. Other kids were trying to help but there was no way they could get him on the bike. I went out and tried but he had to weigh at least 150 pounds cause I could not lift him up. he then tried to play hide and go seek ...he couldnt run...and when he tried he was out of breath and sweating profusely....His mom ame puling up with bags from Mcdonalds..he ATE 2 BIG MACS and a order of fries, not to mention the large soda..I got sick from watching him eat....
being healthy has its rewards....take the challenge and just do it
Urrgh and it just breeds that into the next generation....my home health nurse told me of a client she had that would travel to another state to get food stamps and afdc..they OWNED rental property here and drove lexus's....must be nice
being healthy has its rewards....take the challenge and just do it
okcvet
on 10/23/08 2:06 am - Yukon, OK
on 10/23/08 2:06 am - Yukon, OK
I'm probably going to regret jumping in here, but I've never been one to sit back on issues that matter to me.
Firstly thank you Pattye for caring and taking the time to look into this issue. The official requirements for WLS in the VA are:
1. BMI >40
2. Enrolled in the MOVE program for not less than 3 months.
3. Have failed medical management approaches such as lifestyle modification through proper nutrition and increased exercise, behavioral modification and medication.
That's it. Now there are things that will prevent you from getting the surgery and they are:
1. Current tobacco smokers; patients must abstain from smoking for at least 6 weeks prior to surgery.
2. Patients with oxygen dependent chronic obstructive pulmonary disorder (COPD).
3. Patients with active hepatitis B or cirrhosis.
4. Patients with congestive heart failure or pulmonary hypertension unresponsive to treatment.
5. Patients having had multiple abdominal operations, complicated incisional hernias, or infection resulting in a multiple, diffuse, or severe intra-abdominal infection.
6. Patients with major psychoses and/or any non-compliance with prescribed treatment regimens.
7. Patients who were active substance abusers within a period of 1-year prior to the referral.
The five step program you referred to is the MOVE (Managing Obesity for Veterans Everywhere) program. That's really just a nutritional program. The program is not funded on the national level so the program will vary from center to center in what they offer and what they actually do. I've been enrolled in the MOVE program here in Oklahoma City VAMC since it's inception here about 3 years ago.
Now the unofficial reasons for not giving the surgery is MONEY. It is not funded, and it is an elective surgery. They don't want to give anyone the surgery. There has never been a veteran in the Oklahoma City VAMC that has EVER had WLS. The Oklahoma City VA covers virtually all of Oklahoma. There are a few outlying clinics, but they are just clinics.
The new fiscal year just started for the VA (October 1), so now magically they are now making preparations for me to go to Jackson, MS for my first appointment. Again the insanity of the VA, Dallas VAMC is actively recruiting veterans for a long term study of WLS. I cannot have my surgery there because it is in a different region. 627 miles to Jackson vs 222 to Dallas. That amounts to 18 hours of driving to Dallas vs 60 hours of driving to Jackson.
These are taxpayer dollars we are talking about here. YOUR dollars. Now if you really want to get into the issue of cost to the taxpayer a VA study was done in October 2001 of 25 patients. The total cost of their care before surgery was $29,858 before WLS and just $11,816 after surgery and that included $2,840 for the surgery. That netted a savings of $20,882 after the surgery. The big cost of morbidly obese veterans like everywhere else is the co-morbidity's like diabetes, hypertension, etc.
One other point that I want to make is that the VA just DONATED 2.7 million dollars to a CEMETERY in Hawaii. Is it by chance that Senator Akaka the Chairman of the Senate Committee on Veterans Affairs is from Hawaii? I'm sure that the cemetery needs improvement, but at a price tag of 2.7 million? The roads must be paved with gold. The living veterans could use those dollars more than the deceased ones.
Pattye, you as so correct one person can make a difference. If I had someone to call or write people on my behalf I would not have been waiting years for surgery. I don't have family to go to bat for me, and my elected officials don't seem to care. And yes, I already know that people are going to jump in here about me whining instead of doing something. Well, I have been doing something for years, but the VA will not listen to its veterans. They DO however listen to legislators and family.
So for those of you that truly want to see this for what it is I have been blogging about this at http://okcvet.wordpress.com and I always welcome comments.
Wayne
Firstly thank you Pattye for caring and taking the time to look into this issue. The official requirements for WLS in the VA are:
1. BMI >40
2. Enrolled in the MOVE program for not less than 3 months.
3. Have failed medical management approaches such as lifestyle modification through proper nutrition and increased exercise, behavioral modification and medication.
That's it. Now there are things that will prevent you from getting the surgery and they are:
1. Current tobacco smokers; patients must abstain from smoking for at least 6 weeks prior to surgery.
2. Patients with oxygen dependent chronic obstructive pulmonary disorder (COPD).
3. Patients with active hepatitis B or cirrhosis.
4. Patients with congestive heart failure or pulmonary hypertension unresponsive to treatment.
5. Patients having had multiple abdominal operations, complicated incisional hernias, or infection resulting in a multiple, diffuse, or severe intra-abdominal infection.
6. Patients with major psychoses and/or any non-compliance with prescribed treatment regimens.
7. Patients who were active substance abusers within a period of 1-year prior to the referral.
The five step program you referred to is the MOVE (Managing Obesity for Veterans Everywhere) program. That's really just a nutritional program. The program is not funded on the national level so the program will vary from center to center in what they offer and what they actually do. I've been enrolled in the MOVE program here in Oklahoma City VAMC since it's inception here about 3 years ago.
Now the unofficial reasons for not giving the surgery is MONEY. It is not funded, and it is an elective surgery. They don't want to give anyone the surgery. There has never been a veteran in the Oklahoma City VAMC that has EVER had WLS. The Oklahoma City VA covers virtually all of Oklahoma. There are a few outlying clinics, but they are just clinics.
The new fiscal year just started for the VA (October 1), so now magically they are now making preparations for me to go to Jackson, MS for my first appointment. Again the insanity of the VA, Dallas VAMC is actively recruiting veterans for a long term study of WLS. I cannot have my surgery there because it is in a different region. 627 miles to Jackson vs 222 to Dallas. That amounts to 18 hours of driving to Dallas vs 60 hours of driving to Jackson.
These are taxpayer dollars we are talking about here. YOUR dollars. Now if you really want to get into the issue of cost to the taxpayer a VA study was done in October 2001 of 25 patients. The total cost of their care before surgery was $29,858 before WLS and just $11,816 after surgery and that included $2,840 for the surgery. That netted a savings of $20,882 after the surgery. The big cost of morbidly obese veterans like everywhere else is the co-morbidity's like diabetes, hypertension, etc.
One other point that I want to make is that the VA just DONATED 2.7 million dollars to a CEMETERY in Hawaii. Is it by chance that Senator Akaka the Chairman of the Senate Committee on Veterans Affairs is from Hawaii? I'm sure that the cemetery needs improvement, but at a price tag of 2.7 million? The roads must be paved with gold. The living veterans could use those dollars more than the deceased ones.
Pattye, you as so correct one person can make a difference. If I had someone to call or write people on my behalf I would not have been waiting years for surgery. I don't have family to go to bat for me, and my elected officials don't seem to care. And yes, I already know that people are going to jump in here about me whining instead of doing something. Well, I have been doing something for years, but the VA will not listen to its veterans. They DO however listen to legislators and family.
So for those of you that truly want to see this for what it is I have been blogging about this at http://okcvet.wordpress.com and I always welcome comments.
Wayne
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