Help!!!!! Alcohol and WLS patients
Anne R.
on 10/31/06 10:16 pm - Ballston Spa, NY
on 10/31/06 10:16 pm - Ballston Spa, NY
does anyone know where i might find any info that will state the ability to withstand alot of alcohol consumption? I have recently had my daUGHTER ROMOVED FROM MY CUSTODY BY CHILD PROTECTIVE BECAUSE i GOT IN AN ACCIDENT TOTALLY WASTED.
The lady accused me of being an alcoholic because my alcohol blood level was .286. she said normal people don't function like that, that I had to be a regular heavy drinker. This is not the case, but if I can find any info that might state that we as wls paTIENTS HAVE THE ABILITY TO WITHSTAND MORE, THANIT WILL HELP ME GET MY DAUGHTER BACK!!! PLEASE HELP. Sorry for the typing but nails got in the way....
I am so sorry to hear about your dilemma but unfortuanately you may have a fight on your hands. Oprah had a show on just last week about bypass patients ability to drink a large amount, get drunk faster and then turn around and get sober. Bypass patients have the ability to absorb alcohol in a short period of time. And they also have the ability to get rid of it just as fast. (Meaning it goes right through your system) I do not know the time span between drunk and sober but non the less the timing you got caught was most unfortunate.
Your doctor should be able to help you considerably but may I suggest you do your own research as well. 
Because of your new body you should consider staying away from alcoholic beverages. If your accident was a direct result of your drinking it wouldn't matter how much you can consume. Just knowing that fact, drinking alcohol was a bad decision.
If it was me I would not try to disprove the officer. That could backfire. Get a lawyer, get your research information and doctor's support and beg for the mercy of the court. I hope this was your first offense.
Of course that is a personal opinion. That's what the forum is about.
"Good Luck To You" on getting your child back.
Because of your new body you should consider staying away from alcoholic beverages. If your accident was a direct result of your drinking it wouldn't matter how much you can consume. Just knowing that fact, drinking alcohol was a bad decision.
If it was me I would not try to disprove the officer. That could backfire. Get a lawyer, get your research information and doctor's support and beg for the mercy of the court. I hope this was your first offense.
Of course that is a personal opinion. That's what the forum is about.
"Good Luck To You" on getting your child back. 
Anne Rose:
Hello, I am sorry you are challenged right now. I believe you have the information backwards though/are looking for the wrong info. You are looking for information on how alchol effects WLsers MORE easily/rapidly not how you can tolerate more. WE CAN NOT WITHSTAND MORE In truth you can tolerate less, one drink may effect us/you wlsers like 3 or 6 used to etc...Meaning the absorbtion is rapid and we can become intoxicated on ONE drink.. *I hope this makes sense* . You don't say when you had WLS, or how far out you are or what surgery you had? (i.e. Lap banders have no change in anatomy for absorption)...Your ability to tolerate that high level is concerning though.....that signals double trouble that despite your increased sensitivity to alchol you have a HIGH tolerance if you can function at a BAC that high, so I am going to have to agree w/ that lady I am WORRIED and CONCERNED about you! 
The more rapid absorption of alcohol and heightened blood alcohol levels would cause the bariatric patient to have a more pronounced feeling of inebriation during and shortly after drinking. And, such effects could have serious ramifications with regard to driving an automobile or performing other skilled tasks such as operating heavy machinery, piloting a plane or any other task that may influence the safety of the individual or that of others. The use of alcohol after surgery could also cause irreversible brain and nerve damage, coma and possible death by inhibiting the absorption of important vitamins, including B-complex vitamins such as thiamin (B1) or vitamin B12. Alcohol inhibits the absorption of thiamin and other B-complex vitamins, reduces activation of certain vitamins, and stimulates the breakdown of vitamin A, pyridoxine, and folate.
If you tried to prove you could drink more due to WLS you'd be actually shooting yourself in the foot so to speak meaning you were agreeing w/ the people accusing you of being an alcoholic (drinking a lot). *Now regardless of absorption issues you were drinking and driving, your BAC was VERY VERY HIGH and even if it was after 1 drink or 10 it probably is inmaterial (I'm thinking), being accountable and responsible is what they are looking at and your ability to safely care for your child (*not how much alchol you can/can't toleate it is your insight and judgment they are looking at!). I am not judging I am merely stating facts as I know them, how you handle alcohol due to surgery isn't the issue for them at all, I can not see how that matters in the scheme of safety to your child. Knowing wlsers have issues w/ etoh means being aware and not using any when driving due to the risk. You didn't mention how much you drink, how often etc but perhaps for your safety and your childs seeking treatment for alcohol may be helpful?
These are articles I have on why wlsers should avoid alcohol esp. early on but perhaps long-term...There is more and more info on wlsers switching addictions and alchol is one easily switched to because we need so little....THere are a few that are similar to your stor sadly you are not alone (see the BSCI article and the beyond cahange one sin particuaar but all can be helfpul!)
In our program they recommend avoiding alcohol for 1yr postop. (The reasons: alcohol is a gastric irritant, can add to dehydration, empty/non-nutrative calories stalling wt loss/assisting in possible regain, risk of dumping as many alcohols or mixed drinks are HIGH in sugar, others are carbonated (beer/champagne) so they ask us to avoid that as well, risk of intoxication could be higher sooner due to rapid absorbtion, the alcohol may loosen one up to eat foods they normally wouldn't, it can interfere with vitamin/mineral absorbtion also which we are already at risk for deficiencies in B12, thiamine, vit A, zinc, magnesium... etc...and finally we are taxing our already most likely 'fatty' livers with the rapid wt loss, risk of chirrosis is greater early on), so 'I' haven't tried alcohol in my 4 yrs postop, but it never was a big issue or deal for me preop, it is a personal choice. YOU CAN DO ANYTHING YOU CHOSE, alcohol is a choice...Make an educated and informed one for you.
BUT consider the possible slippery slope!!
Bariatric times just had 2 great articles on wls/alcohol, once they are avail on the site I'd also look there (in Sept/Oct 2006 issue not yet quite avail online) http://www.bariatrictimes.com/index.cfm watch they should be available soon...
Recommendations on the Use of Alcohol After Surgery
Cynthia Buffington, Ph.D.
Cynthia Buffington, Ph.D., is the Director of Research for The Obesity Wellness Center
http://www.beyondchange-obesity.com/obesityResearch/precautionsWithAlcohol.html
Caution When Using Alcohol after Bariatric Surgery
By Cynthia Buffington, Ph.D.
http://www.barimd.com/myNewsletterPage.php?pageNo=5&practiceId=7
Alcohol Use in the Bariatric Patient
Cynthia Buffington, Ph.D. in Silhouette
http://www.bbvitamins.com/research_Article_5.aspx
Alcoholism Following Weight Loss Surgery
http://www.wlscenter.com/NLArchive/may_1_2006.htm
After weight-loss surgery, some find new addictions
http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/0718wsj-addiction-transfer18-ON.html#
And others are correct Oprah had info on this recently as has CNN and here was last article from BSCI:
From BSCIs
e-Newsletter October 31st, 2006
Addiction and Weight Loss Surgery: A Social Worker's Perspective
By Katie Jay, MSW; Director, National Association for Weight Loss Surgery
Here's a typical scenario. At her sister's wedding, Fiona, who had never been a big drinker, decided to try her first taste of alcohol after weight loss surgery (WLS). She had waited 11 months after surgery, had lost 115 pounds so far, and wasn't going to deny herself a glass of champagne on such an important day. And wow, did she enjoy that champagne! She sipped on a small drink, got a nice buzz, and laughed the evening away. No big deal.
Fiona didn't realize that gastric bypass patients will get drunker quicker and have higher blood alcohol levels after drinking smaller quantities of alcohol than people who have not had weight loss surgery.
Fiona Rekindles the "Pleasure" of a Mood-Altering Activity
After WLS, Fiona had done a pretty good job of changing her eating habits. She almost completely avoided sugar and ate mostly protein and veggies. She loved her success, but there was a part of her who missed indulging in food. When she tried the champagne, she felt self indulgent and relaxed in a way she hadn't in a long time (in about 11 months, actually).
The following week when Fiona was grocery shopping she decided to pick up a bottle of wine. It would be great to have a small glass before dinner sometimes, she thought. She poured herself a small glass when she got home from the store just to find out how it tasted and to quietly enjoy another little buzz.
Over time, Fiona began to sneak wine during the day. She hid it when her husband commented on her consumption. The behavior of wanting something forbidden, getting it, hiding it, and consuming it in private was so familiar to Fiona from her days of overeating that it was almost a relief to sneak the wine -- and she slowly built up the quantity she was drinking.
Thankfully, Fiona was participating in group therapy with a social worker who specialized in weight loss surgery at the time. When one of the other group members shared about getting into a car accident and being arrested for driving drunk, Fiona felt uncomfortable. She had driven to pick up her son from soccer the prior evening after she had a small glass of wine. At the time she knew she was tipsy.
Still, she poured herself more wine when she got home from group and drank it in the basement playroom, because her husband almost never went down there.
Fiona didn't have to get arrested for drunk driving to really "get" that she had a problem. Everything came to a head when her son found an empty wine bottle in his toy box in the basement, while Fiona had another mother and son over for a play date. Fiona was completely humiliated.
Embarrassed and ashamed, Fiona called her therapist to talk about what happened, and the therapist referred her to a social worker who specializes in substance abuse.
With the help of the therapist and a support group for substance abusers, Fiona was able to get on the road to recovery quickly.
But, why did Fiona Turn into an Alcoholic Overnight?
Fiona simply switched one addiction for another. It's not uncommon for a person who gives up one addictive behavior to pick up another addictive behavior. Fiona had quit using food as a soothing substance in her life. The alcohol came in and filled that void.
Switching addictions is also demonstrated when a person develops an unhealthy relationship with eating and exercise following weight loss surgery.
Exercise can become a way to compensate for overeating, and can turn into what is called exercise bulimia. It's not bad to exercise as part of a plan to control one's weight. But if the overeating becomes excessive, and then the exercise becomes obsessive -- that's a problem. Your physical health can be threatened -- not to mention your peace of mind.
The other common addiction people switch to is spending. Many weight loss surgery patients get such a kick out of shopping for new clothes they get a little carried away - and then they get hooked. Having been so burdened by obesity in the past, weight loss surgery patients begin to leave the house more, because they're now physically able to, and they shop more frequently. Shopping can morph into a mood-changing activity, and hence, an addiction.
What Can People Do in Fiona's Situation?
Several steps can be taken to address the experience of switching addictions:
1. Identify your addiction(s) and the extent to which it is (they are) ruling your life.
2. Educate yourself about a particular addiction by doing research and talking to professionals who have knowledge and experience in that area.
3. Seek out a knowledgeable social worker if you are unable to control your addictive behavior on your own.
4. Join a support group that addresses your specific addiction, such as overeaters anonymous, alcoholics anonymous, debtors anonymous, etc. Remember, addictions are very common and nothing to be ashamed of. But, they are hard to get rid of in isolation. Get help if you are struggling. And keep in mind any addictions left untreated absolutely will take over your life.
Katie Jay, MSW, is the Director of the National Association for Weight Loss Surgery (www.nawls.com) and is author of the courageous book, Dying to Change: My Really Heavy Life Story, How Weight Loss Surgery Gave Me Hope for Living.
BSCI is pleased to participate in a global survey on Response to Alcohol After Bariatric Surgery. We would like your input as we continue to elevate care for WLS patients.
Please visit this link http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=749492407167
Your participation remains completely anonymous.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I know this may not be what you were looking for, I am unsure if your surgeon could be helpful to you at all quite honestly as I said the info on how we metabolize alcohol probably isn't the issue they are looking at it is your judgment and insight into the safe care of your child, for you realizing that one drink may be too much is probably the best help longterm. Fight for your child no matter what that means even if it is a treatment program for alcohol! Legal counsel may be helpful as well.
If you have more ? or I have confused you feel free to email me..
[email protected]
Take Care,
Jamie Ellis 
Lap RNY 10/9/02 Dr. Singh
320/163 5'9'' (lost 45# before surgery)
Plastics 6/9/04 & 11/11/2005 Dr. King
http://www.obesityhelp.com/morbidobesity/members/profile.php?N=c1132518510
"Being happy doesn't mean everything's perfect, it just means you've decided to see beyond the imperfections!"
The more rapid absorption of alcohol and heightened blood alcohol levels would cause the bariatric patient to have a more pronounced feeling of inebriation during and shortly after drinking. And, such effects could have serious ramifications with regard to driving an automobile or performing other skilled tasks such as operating heavy machinery, piloting a plane or any other task that may influence the safety of the individual or that of others. The use of alcohol after surgery could also cause irreversible brain and nerve damage, coma and possible death by inhibiting the absorption of important vitamins, including B-complex vitamins such as thiamin (B1) or vitamin B12. Alcohol inhibits the absorption of thiamin and other B-complex vitamins, reduces activation of certain vitamins, and stimulates the breakdown of vitamin A, pyridoxine, and folate.
If you tried to prove you could drink more due to WLS you'd be actually shooting yourself in the foot so to speak meaning you were agreeing w/ the people accusing you of being an alcoholic (drinking a lot). *Now regardless of absorption issues you were drinking and driving, your BAC was VERY VERY HIGH and even if it was after 1 drink or 10 it probably is inmaterial (I'm thinking), being accountable and responsible is what they are looking at and your ability to safely care for your child (*not how much alchol you can/can't toleate it is your insight and judgment they are looking at!). I am not judging I am merely stating facts as I know them, how you handle alcohol due to surgery isn't the issue for them at all, I can not see how that matters in the scheme of safety to your child. Knowing wlsers have issues w/ etoh means being aware and not using any when driving due to the risk. You didn't mention how much you drink, how often etc but perhaps for your safety and your childs seeking treatment for alcohol may be helpful?
These are articles I have on why wlsers should avoid alcohol esp. early on but perhaps long-term...There is more and more info on wlsers switching addictions and alchol is one easily switched to because we need so little....THere are a few that are similar to your stor sadly you are not alone (see the BSCI article and the beyond cahange one sin particuaar but all can be helfpul!)
In our program they recommend avoiding alcohol for 1yr postop. (The reasons: alcohol is a gastric irritant, can add to dehydration, empty/non-nutrative calories stalling wt loss/assisting in possible regain, risk of dumping as many alcohols or mixed drinks are HIGH in sugar, others are carbonated (beer/champagne) so they ask us to avoid that as well, risk of intoxication could be higher sooner due to rapid absorbtion, the alcohol may loosen one up to eat foods they normally wouldn't, it can interfere with vitamin/mineral absorbtion also which we are already at risk for deficiencies in B12, thiamine, vit A, zinc, magnesium... etc...and finally we are taxing our already most likely 'fatty' livers with the rapid wt loss, risk of chirrosis is greater early on), so 'I' haven't tried alcohol in my 4 yrs postop, but it never was a big issue or deal for me preop, it is a personal choice. YOU CAN DO ANYTHING YOU CHOSE, alcohol is a choice...Make an educated and informed one for you.
BUT consider the possible slippery slope!!
Bariatric times just had 2 great articles on wls/alcohol, once they are avail on the site I'd also look there (in Sept/Oct 2006 issue not yet quite avail online) http://www.bariatrictimes.com/index.cfm watch they should be available soon...
Recommendations on the Use of Alcohol After Surgery
Cynthia Buffington, Ph.D.
Cynthia Buffington, Ph.D., is the Director of Research for The Obesity Wellness Center
http://www.beyondchange-obesity.com/obesityResearch/precautionsWithAlcohol.html
Caution When Using Alcohol after Bariatric Surgery
By Cynthia Buffington, Ph.D.
http://www.barimd.com/myNewsletterPage.php?pageNo=5&practiceId=7
Alcohol Use in the Bariatric Patient
Cynthia Buffington, Ph.D. in Silhouette
http://www.bbvitamins.com/research_Article_5.aspx
Alcoholism Following Weight Loss Surgery
http://www.wlscenter.com/NLArchive/may_1_2006.htm
After weight-loss surgery, some find new addictions
http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/0718wsj-addiction-transfer18-ON.html#
And others are correct Oprah had info on this recently as has CNN and here was last article from BSCI:
From BSCIs
e-Newsletter October 31st, 2006
Addiction and Weight Loss Surgery: A Social Worker's Perspective
By Katie Jay, MSW; Director, National Association for Weight Loss Surgery
Here's a typical scenario. At her sister's wedding, Fiona, who had never been a big drinker, decided to try her first taste of alcohol after weight loss surgery (WLS). She had waited 11 months after surgery, had lost 115 pounds so far, and wasn't going to deny herself a glass of champagne on such an important day. And wow, did she enjoy that champagne! She sipped on a small drink, got a nice buzz, and laughed the evening away. No big deal.
Fiona didn't realize that gastric bypass patients will get drunker quicker and have higher blood alcohol levels after drinking smaller quantities of alcohol than people who have not had weight loss surgery.
Fiona Rekindles the "Pleasure" of a Mood-Altering Activity
After WLS, Fiona had done a pretty good job of changing her eating habits. She almost completely avoided sugar and ate mostly protein and veggies. She loved her success, but there was a part of her who missed indulging in food. When she tried the champagne, she felt self indulgent and relaxed in a way she hadn't in a long time (in about 11 months, actually).
The following week when Fiona was grocery shopping she decided to pick up a bottle of wine. It would be great to have a small glass before dinner sometimes, she thought. She poured herself a small glass when she got home from the store just to find out how it tasted and to quietly enjoy another little buzz.
Over time, Fiona began to sneak wine during the day. She hid it when her husband commented on her consumption. The behavior of wanting something forbidden, getting it, hiding it, and consuming it in private was so familiar to Fiona from her days of overeating that it was almost a relief to sneak the wine -- and she slowly built up the quantity she was drinking.
Thankfully, Fiona was participating in group therapy with a social worker who specialized in weight loss surgery at the time. When one of the other group members shared about getting into a car accident and being arrested for driving drunk, Fiona felt uncomfortable. She had driven to pick up her son from soccer the prior evening after she had a small glass of wine. At the time she knew she was tipsy.
Still, she poured herself more wine when she got home from group and drank it in the basement playroom, because her husband almost never went down there.
Fiona didn't have to get arrested for drunk driving to really "get" that she had a problem. Everything came to a head when her son found an empty wine bottle in his toy box in the basement, while Fiona had another mother and son over for a play date. Fiona was completely humiliated.
Embarrassed and ashamed, Fiona called her therapist to talk about what happened, and the therapist referred her to a social worker who specializes in substance abuse.
With the help of the therapist and a support group for substance abusers, Fiona was able to get on the road to recovery quickly.
But, why did Fiona Turn into an Alcoholic Overnight?
Fiona simply switched one addiction for another. It's not uncommon for a person who gives up one addictive behavior to pick up another addictive behavior. Fiona had quit using food as a soothing substance in her life. The alcohol came in and filled that void.
Switching addictions is also demonstrated when a person develops an unhealthy relationship with eating and exercise following weight loss surgery.
Exercise can become a way to compensate for overeating, and can turn into what is called exercise bulimia. It's not bad to exercise as part of a plan to control one's weight. But if the overeating becomes excessive, and then the exercise becomes obsessive -- that's a problem. Your physical health can be threatened -- not to mention your peace of mind.
The other common addiction people switch to is spending. Many weight loss surgery patients get such a kick out of shopping for new clothes they get a little carried away - and then they get hooked. Having been so burdened by obesity in the past, weight loss surgery patients begin to leave the house more, because they're now physically able to, and they shop more frequently. Shopping can morph into a mood-changing activity, and hence, an addiction.
What Can People Do in Fiona's Situation?
Several steps can be taken to address the experience of switching addictions:
1. Identify your addiction(s) and the extent to which it is (they are) ruling your life.
2. Educate yourself about a particular addiction by doing research and talking to professionals who have knowledge and experience in that area.
3. Seek out a knowledgeable social worker if you are unable to control your addictive behavior on your own.
4. Join a support group that addresses your specific addiction, such as overeaters anonymous, alcoholics anonymous, debtors anonymous, etc. Remember, addictions are very common and nothing to be ashamed of. But, they are hard to get rid of in isolation. Get help if you are struggling. And keep in mind any addictions left untreated absolutely will take over your life.
Katie Jay, MSW, is the Director of the National Association for Weight Loss Surgery (www.nawls.com) and is author of the courageous book, Dying to Change: My Really Heavy Life Story, How Weight Loss Surgery Gave Me Hope for Living.
BSCI is pleased to participate in a global survey on Response to Alcohol After Bariatric Surgery. We would like your input as we continue to elevate care for WLS patients.
Please visit this link http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=749492407167
Your participation remains completely anonymous.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I know this may not be what you were looking for, I am unsure if your surgeon could be helpful to you at all quite honestly as I said the info on how we metabolize alcohol probably isn't the issue they are looking at it is your judgment and insight into the safe care of your child, for you realizing that one drink may be too much is probably the best help longterm. Fight for your child no matter what that means even if it is a treatment program for alcohol! Legal counsel may be helpful as well.
If you have more ? or I have confused you feel free to email me..
[email protected]
Take Care,
Jamie Ellis
Lap RNY 10/9/02 Dr. Singh
320/163 5'9'' (lost 45# before surgery)
Plastics 6/9/04 & 11/11/2005 Dr. King
http://www.obesityhelp.com/morbidobesity/members/profile.php?N=c1132518510
"Being happy doesn't mean everything's perfect, it just means you've decided to see beyond the imperfections!" Anne R.
on 11/6/06 9:26 pm - Ballston Spa, NY
on 11/6/06 9:26 pm - Ballston Spa, NY
Thank you for your concern. It has been quite awhile since I have been to this site, yet I feel like we are a family, I have missed it. To answer any questions and doubt, I have voluntarily gone to an alcohol/drug rehab facility to get evaluated. Happy to say I do not have a problem. I haven't had anything to drink since 10/21 and have no desire to have anything again.. I was just a social drinker so I am told. HOWEVER i have also opted to stay in treatment to make the child welfare people happy. So I will at least learn more about alcohol abuse. The gentleman that did my eval. said it was a good decision because CPS are horrible people, and would rather see me in therapy then be told I don't need it.
I truly appreciate your response, and can always use a friend to talk to!!!!!
Sincerely,
Anne
ANNE:
Email me anytime! Glad u r working w/ the system and on-self!
[email protected]
better yet come to my support group in Saratoga 1st Monday of the Month in the Saratoga Hospital Board room 6-8pm! Next one is 12/4!
Take Care,
Jamie
Lap RNY 10/9/02 Dr. Singh
320/163 5'9'' (lost 45# before surgery)
Plastics 6/9/04 & 11/11/2005 Dr. King
http://www.obesityhelp.com/morbidobesity/members/profile.php?N=c1132518510
"Being happy doesn't mean everything's perfect, it just means you've decided to see beyond the imperfections!"
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